Horses who go better in a double bridle

[DorothyJ]

Just wondering how common this is.

I am having some help from my dressage instructor, who rides to GP level, with schooling my temperamental warmblood mare. She is working at elementary level and towards medium at home and has the ability to go on (even though I may not have!) However consistency with the contact has always been a problem and our key focus. Have had her teeth done recently by a very highly regarded dentist, and that did help, but still struggling with her.

Today my dressage instructor tried her in a double, and then I had a go, and we were both delighted with the results. Even though we rode with the curb rein very loose, my mare was still noticeably happier and more settled with the contact. It seems to be the way forward!

Has anyone else experienced this? Would be interested to know.

 

[rowy]

Yupp my mare is the same!
I was struggling getting a snaffle she was happy with. It was really hindering any inprovements because she would put her self in a false outline and suck off the contact in the snaffle. The nearest one i could get her happy in is a hanging cheek myler with a port.

My instructer suggested trying her in a double and we haven't looked back. She has improved so massively its like I am riding a different horse! She takes the contact forward and does not go behind the vertical any more and is more stronger in my hand which is what I wanted as before I had absolutely no contact/ control on her mouth there fore i couldnt half halt or anything.

It makes my life a lot easier and keeps us both sane just means we have to compete elem now.

 

[Mavis007]

I am struggling with contact issues with my horse who is also at elem/medium level. What bits are you both using for your double??? There are just so many to choose from!

 

[MillionDollar]

Most definitely. My Welsh Cob goes well in a Mullen Happy Mouth Snaffle but wow he's absolutely amazing in a double, so light and works up into the contact instead of ducking behind it like he does in the snaffle. Like you, the curb is loose so it is odd how much better he is. I only use the double once/twice per week as he still competes in the snaffle atm at Elementary. I'll compete in the double once I've sorted out sitting trot

 

[MillionDollar]

Just to add my cob has a very big tongue, so he has a mullen bradoon with small port and the NS Dressage Warmblood Revolver Weymouth with large port as this puts the least pressure on the tongue I have found he is definitely happiest with no joints in the bit(s).

http://www.horsebitbank.com/dressage-warmblood-revolver-2-694.phtml

 

[rowy]

I use the Neue schule team up with the neue schule mors l'hotte. To be honest I haven't compared it with any others but she goes so well in it I don't need to.
Also to add, I also ride with the curb rein loose- she just likes the feeling of 2 bits in her mouth strange horse!

 

[MillionDollar]

I am struggling with contact issues with my horse who is also at elem/medium level. What bits are you both using for your double??? There are just so many to choose from!

What issues in the contact do you have? You could email a few bit banks as I know the lady who specialises in NS bits is supposed to be very good

 

[JGC]

Mine is like this - if you ride in a double with the curb rein on her neck, she's much better than in a snaffle - go figure! Although I do alternate snaffle and double at home. I have found this in other horses too - it's quite common for certain types of horses to be much more forward in a double.

 

[cptrayes]

Yes, I had to ride a big moving warmblood in a double as well. He was much happier and so was I. Ignore anyone who tries to tell you it's just a matter of training. It certainly wasn't with mine.

 

[MillionDollar]

Mine is like this - if you ride in a double with the curb rein on her neck, she's much better than in a snaffle - go figure! .

Exactly this! I warm up with the curb on his neck and he's still 1000% better than in a snaffle, so soft and light. It's weird

 

[JLav]

Just to add my cob has a very big tongue, so he has a mullen bradoon with small port

I don't think you'll be able to compete in this....not sure it's BD legal. All the Bridoons listed and pictured in the rule book are jointed.

 

[Mavis007]

He sticks his tongue out losing us lots of marks :-( He does it while hacking on a loose rein as well as schooling and jumping. I have tried the NS verbindend amongst others but am starting to think he doesn't like a lozenge or the but more forward in his mouth as he seems even worse.

 

[MillionDollar]

I don't think you'll be able to compete in this....not sure it's BD legal. All the Bridoons listed and pictured in the rule book are jointed.

Sorry, yes I should have said not BD legal, only use that for training. I have a jointed bradoon for him to compete in, when he does compete in a double

 

[MillionDollar]

He sticks his tongue out losing us lots of marks :-( He does it while hacking on a loose rein as well as schooling and jumping. I have tried the NS verbindend amongst others but am starting to think he doesn't like a lozenge or the but more forward in his mouth as he seems even worse.

Snap!!! I have so many bits that I tried. Try a fat mullen snaffle, like I said, mine is in a Happy Mouth Mullen snaffle and he never does it in this now. At first I thought he'd be better in a really thin bit, but that made it worse. Also tried a drop noseband and a cavesson noseband (loose) and he is best in a flash.

Although I have to say some of his issues with his tongue was when he wasn't even in the contact....I sometimes couldn't get him on the outside rein on the left. Now that's sorted his tongue is never seen And again, in the double he never ever sticks it out.

 

[Mavis007]

Thanks MD that gives me hope that I have been starting to lose. I will certainly give it a try, thank you

 

[LEC]

I have a happy mouth Mullen if you want to borrow one Mavis can leave it with Chatter1.

 

[Mavis007]

Thanks LEC, that would be great

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

mine.

competed up to medium in a snaffle but would always sit slightly behind it and not take it forward.

tried a double and havent looked back, he prefers the weight/bulk of the 2 bits and takes the contact forward beautifully and is much more secure in my hand, i can actually get my leg on and half half now, where as before no amount of leg would get him to take the hand forward, he would sink back and back and back off the hend and tighten his neck and thus his back.

he's competing PSG now, playing with GP work and feels better and better week by week, very grown up pony!

he's in a cotswold sport tongue saver snaffle and a mor l'hotte curb.

 

[LaurenB]

Think I may have to try this after 6 months of just snaffle and sore arms and hands it may be the way forward. He's just instantly light and lovely in his double

 

[TarrSteps]

Out of curiosity, for those of you who ride regularly in a double (or pelham) rather than for schooling for a specific purpose, how do you find your horses are when they go back in the snaffle?

 

[Booboos]

I don't have much experience with doubles but I can see the point of going from a snaffle to a double if the horse is BTV and improves this way, to be honest anything to get them to put weight on the bit is bound to be a good thing. However, I don't see how a horse that is heavy in a snaffle is improved by the double, surely it is still on the forehand but now is also holding its neck tight away from the bit? Am I misunderstanding something?

 

[TarrSteps]

I would tend to agree, Bb. Very different situations. . .

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

I don't have much experience with doubles but I can see the point of going from a snaffle to a double if the horse is BTV and improves this way, to be honest anything to get them to put weight on the bit is bound to be a good thing. However, I don't see how a horse that is heavy in a snaffle is improved by the double, surely it is still on the forehand but now is also holding its neck tight away from the bit? Am I misunderstanding something?

no......

if its pulling you in the snaffle a double might save your arms but wont improve the way of going at all!

TS-i havent gone back to the snaffle at all, he does all his field canter work off the snaffle rein and is fine, but for *proper* schooling he is more happy to take the contact forward if i take a very slight curb contact too, just so he can feel it.

 

[cptrayes]

Out of curiosity, for those of you who ride regularly in a double (or pelham) rather than for schooling for a specific purpose, how do you find your horses are when they go back in the snaffle?

I try to get my hunter out of his pelham for schooling about every six months. I use a straight bar, so the bit mouthpiece is identical, but without the curb he feels very insecure and will not work forward to the bit. In the curb he is mentally much more settled and he works much better. It's very odd, but in his case it seems to be a security blanket.

My dressage horse who died last year was quite simply uncontrollable in a snaffle. Although I tried one from time to time he simply left the arena, either through the fence or over it, every time he thought he had done enough. And hacking without a pelham, he would turn and go home. Not bolt, just canter, but there was no absolutely stopping him without a curb chain.

Neither of these horses were like this because of me, I have plenty of history retraining other people's failures, always in a snaffle, and two other horses at home currently working sweetly in JP double link lozenges.

 

[cptrayes]

no......

if its pulling you in the snaffle a double might save your arms but wont improve the way of going at all!

I don't agree.

If the horse is pulling your arms out you can do nothing to improve his way of going until you can stop him from doing it.

If a double stops the horse from pulling your arms out, you then have a whole toolbox of things that you can do with his mouth and his body to improve his way of going.

 

[JGC]

He sticks his tongue out losing us lots of marks :-( He does it while hacking on a loose rein as well as schooling and jumping. I have tried the NS verbindend amongst others but am starting to think he doesn't like a lozenge or the but more forward in his mouth as he seems even worse.

Mine always stuck her tongue out - I had her in any number of different snaffles and when I bought her she was in either a pelham or a gag. I also tried the Verbindend, which didn't stop her sticking her tongue out and she leant on it! The only thing that worked is the bit below - no more sticking her tongue out, plus she has a beautiful foamy mouth. I think a lozenge was never going to work with her - perhaps she felt like it was too much in her mouth or likes that the rein signals are more separate in a single joint - who knows?

Out of curiosity, for those of you who ride regularly in a double (or pelham) rather than for schooling for a specific purpose, how do you find your horses are when they go back in the snaffle?

Mine goes fine in the snaffle and I probably ride more often in the snaffle as I am often hacking, stretching or using the canter track. She's OK to school in it, but is not as forwards and will sometimes duck behind the contact. I can only imagine that it is something to do with the stability of the weymouth as it is attached by the curb which makes her feel more confident about taking the bit forwards, as she works as well in a pelham. I suspect she would go nicely in a Kimblewick, which might help prove/disprove my theory, but I don't know anyone with the right size that I could borrow!

 

[Booboos]

I don't agree.

If the horse is pulling your arms out you can do nothing to improve his way of going until you can stop him from doing it.

If a double stops the horse from pulling your arms out, you then have a whole toolbox of things that you can do with his mouth and his body to improve his way of going.

Would that be a case for draw reins? Again not an aid I am familiar with but I would imagine that with the draw reins you immediately correct the pull and immediately go back to the snaffle, repeating as and when needed.

 

[cptrayes]

Would that be a case for draw reins? Again not an aid I am familiar with but I would imagine that with the draw reins you immediately correct the pull and immediately go back to the snaffle, repeating as and when needed.

Not necessarily. My horse which had total control of me in a snaffle did not work well in draw reins, he simply ducked behind them and did what he wanted anyway, using all the wrong muscles.

But in a double he could be sent on and out, and controlled.

There are other horses which would possibly be better in draw reins than a double, but draw reins are a very overused and badly used tool that a lot of people don't understand. I think I'd rather see a horse in a double with a correct head carriage, than overbent in draw reins.

 

[Dirtymare]

My instructor advised that I put my cob mare in a double ages ago, but I resisted until a few months ago. My thinking was that I am dead against gadgets and it a double is a gadget (in my eyes!!)
She works at medium level and we are hoping to do our first medium test this year.
OMG, what a difference.
I have always had contact issues with her in a snaffle. When she starts to work correctly, she gets so strong she bogs off with me!!
Now its like having power steering on a barge!! Wonderful.
She is hacked in a snaffle, so not in a double all the time.

 

[Booboos]

Not necessarily. My horse which had total control of me in a snaffle did not work well in draw reins, he simply ducked behind them and did what he wanted anyway, using all the wrong muscles.

But in a double he could be sent on and out, and controlled.

There are other horses which would possibly be better in draw reins than a double, but draw reins are a very overused and badly used tool that a lot of people don't understand. I think I'd rather see a horse in a double with a correct head carriage, than overbent in draw reins.

I see, thanks for the explanation.