House training help

MrsElle

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We have a little foster pup in, currently about 14 weeks old and while she is lovely and pretty well behaved, her toilet habits leave a lot to be desired.

For example, she has just been outside for a good ten minutes after waking up, came in, wee'd and poo'd on the carpet. Arrrggghhhh!

She just doesn't seem to be getting it at all. We've done the ignoring the bad and laying on the praise when she goes outside, but it isn't clicking with her for some reason. OH is now saying we need to tell her off and chuck her outside when she goes inside, but we have house trained loads of dogs before without having to resort to that. I really am at a loss.



Any tips?
 

Alec Swan

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…….. . We've done the ignoring the bad and laying on the praise when she goes outside, but it isn't clicking with her for some reason. OH is now saying we need to tell her off and chuck her outside when she goes inside, but we have house trained loads of dogs before without having to resort to that. ……..
When dogs live with us, and within our homes, then sometimes 'scolding' isn't such a bad thing, though it only works when we catch them in the act. Retrospective correction achieves nothing. The real trick, is watching the pup and recognising the tell-tail signs that what went in is about to exit. Following 'scolding', so they learn to hang on, but as I say, we need to keep a focused eye on them, and when any pacing occurs, then it's a hurried 'out'! :)

Sometimes, though I don't know why, bitch pups can be the most difficult.

Alec.
 

Mahoganybay

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How long have you had the pup?

I am currently in the middle of housetraining my 17 week old Cockapoo. We have had him from 8 weeks old, so for 9 weeks and he is almost 100% housetrained.

Initially we took him out every 2 hours (when awake) and really praised any toilet outside. We had puppy pads in one area in the house for him to use if he got caught short. Watched him like a hawk for the tell tale signs he needed to go always ignored any accidents inside, but if he did, removed him from the room & didn't let him see us clearing up.

He is now lasting longer and is actually telling us when he needs to go out.

It just takes time, all dogs are different, good luck, keep calm & whatever you do, do not tell him off & chuck him outside.
 
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MrsElle

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I think we are going to have to start to tell her off Alec, but she is an odd little thing, doesn't get particularly excited when we praise her, despite us looking like a pair of loons doing so!

We have had her for four weeks Mahoganybay, she was bred by someone wanting to sell 'hard' dogs, and she spent her first few weeks in a one bedroomed flat with both her parents and several litter mates. I suspect she had never seen the outdoors before we got her. We take her out regularly, and she is often out with me when I am doing the horses, but still insists on pooing indoors! I suppose we will get there eventually, it is just a bit frustrating at the moment.
 

Mahoganybay

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Is she food orientated? If so what about a little treat every time she goes outside.

Surely she needs to learn good things happen when she does the right thing. It's just finding that things she likes.

It's frustrating, it's been 16 years since we have had a puppy in our house, the first few weeks I thought my hubby would divorce me ����
 

Alec Swan

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MrsElle, If you really want to confuse her, praise her for having a dump outside, and scold her when she does it in doors! Mixed messages. Dogs don't speak in English! :)

Alec.
 

Sandstone1

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MrsElle, If you really want to confuse her, praise her for having a dump outside, and scold her when she does it in doors! Mixed messages. Dogs don't speak in English! :)

Alec.
Very odd take on house training!
You need to take her out to the area you want her to use. You can use a command to encourage her.
Stay with her til she goes. Then praise and give her a treat.
Take her out every time she wakes up, after every meal and after she plays.
If there are accidents just take her out to where you want her to go.
Don't tell her off just take her to the right place. Make sure you thoroughly clean up any accidents as any smell will encourage her to go there again.
It takes effort but it works.
 

Alec Swan

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Very odd take on house training!
……... You can use a command to encourage her.
……...
Possibly so, except that it's worked well for 50+ years! :) As for commands and 14 week old pups? Seriously? I've never asked any pup of that age to follow any 'command'. We obviously see dogs in differing ways.

Alec.
 

Sandstone1

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Funny that it works for hundreds of assistance dog pups then isn't it?
From as young as 6 weeks too. Yes I am serious.
How do you think they are trained to go on command so as not to inconvienince or embarras their owners??
 

chillipup

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If the poor little mite has spent 10 weeks since birth, cooped up in a flat, with all her litter mates pooing and weeing everywhere, and you've only had her for 4 weeks, no wonder she might be a little confused. Give the pup a chance.

If you actually catch her whilst she is weeing/pooing indoors, just say no, pick her up, (gently) take her outside and encourage her to continue. Even if she doesn't go, praise her, (but you do not need to go over the top) just encourage her (but she may need more than 10 mins outside when she wakes up/after feeding etc) and then bring her back in. Please don't leave her outside on her own..she may see this as a punishment and it will be counter-productive.

If you don't catch her going indoors, you are too late. Don't chastise. Ignore and clean up. Watching the signs is paramount.

If you are fostering, and are finding this a real struggle, I would suggest you contact the home you are fostering from for advice.

Just give her a little more time and be consistant...remember Rome wasn't built in a day. :)
 

Sandstone1

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Possibly so, except that it's worked well for 50+ years! :) As for commands and 14 week old pups? Seriously? I've never asked any pup of that age to follow any 'command'. We obviously see dogs in differing ways.

Alec.
So you don't teach your pup to come to you or sit or what no means?
Teaching them to toilet in the correct place and using a word as they do go to encourage them to go plus praise when they do are just common sense to me.
I may not have 50 years experience but I have delt with hundreds of dogs.
 

mattydog

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I am also mid ht and it seems to be very hit and miss at times! Patience is the key. I have 2 one is 16 weeks and the other 12 weeks. They rarely poop I the house now but peeing in the evening seems to be a problem. If I catch them I say loudly "no" , pick them up and take them outside otherwise I do mutter under my breath as aI use yet more kitchen roll to mop up!
Last night we left the crate door open for the first time at night and they were totally clean. Bella woke me up at 5am to go out. Weirdly I was delighted. We are a strange breed us dog folk..are we not!?
 

aintgotnohay

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if she doesnt go outside bring her back in and put her in her crate.then 1/2 hr later or so put her outside again until she goes.if she doesnt bring her back in and put her in her crate.when shes has been out and done her business bring her in and keep an eye on her.your routine doesnt seem very consistent.i certainly wouldnt be giving a 14 week old pup the opertunity to be on a carepet if she had just been outside and not gone.
 

Amymay

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Are you actually accompanying her when she goes out? You do need to do this and encourage her with key words and then lots of praise. I can't see how anyone would think that scolding is sensible.
 

twiggy2

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if she doesnt go outside bring her back in and put her in her crate.then 1/2 hr later or so put her outside again until she goes.if she doesnt bring her back in and put her in her crate.when shes has been out and done her business bring her in and keep an eye on her.your routine doesnt seem very consistent.i certainly wouldnt be giving a 14 week old pup the opertunity to be on a carepet if she had just been outside and not gone.
this

the puppy has learnt that indoors is the place to go and OP you just need to educate her and show her that outside is the place to go.

we have a cartoon up at work that says something along the lines of;

'pup pees on carpet, owner picks up newspaper and rolls it up, owner then uses newspaper to bat self around the head with for nor paying enough attention to puppy to notice the warnings signs of needing to go to the toilet'

TBH I don't treat for toiletting as I find it counter productive and many dogs (and horses) learn to do a tiny pee for a treat and then keep doing tiny drops (or trying to). I just always toilet young or new dogs by putting them on a lead and calmly taking them out to the garden and slowly with no talking/eye contact or playing, walk around the garden (or area I want them to use) until they toilet, when they are finishing I just quietly tell them they are good wander a bit more and then we go indoors or I remove the lead and we carry on doing whatever we want to do.
I currently have a bitch in the house who is approaching 2yrs, she has been with me 6 or 7 weeks and had been in various rescue kennels from the age of 10 weeks, she is clean IF watched-kennels have taught her she does not need to hold it the same as your pup has learnt to go whenever and where ever she needs to.
IME scolding encourages dogs to stop exhibiting the natural pre-toiletting behaviours a bit like telling off a dog for growling you just create a dog that gives no warning of what will follow
 

Alec Swan

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Possibly so, except that it's worked well for 50+ years! :) As for commands and 14 week old pups? Seriously? I've never asked any pup of that age to follow any 'command'. We obviously see dogs in differing ways.

Alec.
So you don't teach your pup to come to you or sit or what no means?
Teaching them to toilet in the correct place and using a word as they do go to encourage them to go plus praise when they do are just common sense to me.
I may not have 50 years experience but I have delt with hundreds of dogs.
I'm not questioning that you've had a great many dogs through your hands, and probably with a deal of success, but we have to consider the word 'teaching'. Of course I teach pups to come to me, but that's done by 'allowing' them to follow their natural instincts, rather than insisting upon compliance. Nope, I've never taught a pup to sit at such a tender age.

I 'allow' a puppy to be house clean, rather than insisting upon it and in the same way, allowing a young dog to do what should come naturally simply gives them the chance to grow, and so me in time, the way in, the way in to correct.

I hear of puppy classes and often despair. I see the 'training' of puppies to be little short of brainwashing a young mind, and would much prefer that correction be installed when the dog is of an age when they are able to assimilate the principles of discipline and importantly when they're old enough to accept correction.

The main point is, and there will of course be a few puppies which have no wish to be clean, that by watching most and by observing them so we should be able to recognise the need to go outside, and act accordingly, rather than expecting them to 'hang-on', and very few young pups have such a wish. It's no time, as you will be aware, when a youngster which lives within the house, learns for itself to 'ask' to go out. Most want to be clean, it just depends whether we allow them to be.

Anyway, that's what I feel about puppies, and though I accept that others will have their own regimes, broadly the above are mine, rightly or not! :)

Alec.
 

twiggy2

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The main point is, and there will of course be a few puppies which have no wish to be clean, that by watching most and by observing them so we should be able to recognise the need to go outside, and act accordingly, rather than expecting them to 'hang-on', and very few young pups have such a wish. It's no time, as you will be aware, when a youngster which lives within the house, learns for itself to 'ask' to go out. Most want to be clean, it just depends whether we allow them to be.
I whole heartedly agree with this and regarding puppy classes/training, I used to teach such classes and what I taught was the owners, what I taught them was how to put words to a puppies natural actions and responses, e.g you hold a treat above a dog/puppies head and their bottom generally goes down so they are sitting as the puppy sits the owner says sit and gives a treat, so I never taught compliance I taught the owners how to engineer a situation to get a response and then how to encourage each individual dog to repeat that action as a a response to a cue.
That is the same for toilet training and as a general rule IF the owner is attentive it is one of the easiest things to teach because as you say there a very few puppies that do not want to be clean
 

bonny

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I'm not questioning that you've had a great many dogs through your hands, and probably with a deal of success, but we have to consider the word 'teaching'. Of course I teach pups to come to me, but that's done by 'allowing' them to follow their natural instincts, rather than insisting upon compliance. Nope, I've never taught a pup to sit at such a tender age.

I 'allow' a puppy to be house clean, rather than insisting upon it and in the same way, allowing a young dog to do what should come naturally simply gives them the chance to grow, and so me in time, the way in, the way in to correct.

I hear of puppy classes and often despair. I see the 'training' of puppies to be little short of brainwashing a young mind, and would much prefer that correction be installed when the dog is of an age when they are able to assimilate the principles of discipline and importantly when they're old enough to accept correction.

The main point is, and there will of course be a few puppies which have no wish to be clean, that by watching most and by observing them so we should be able to recognise the need to go outside, and act accordingly, rather than expecting them to 'hang-on', and very few young pups have such a wish. It's no time, as you will be aware, when a youngster which lives within the house, learns for itself to 'ask' to go out. Most want to be clean, it just depends whether we allow them to be.

Anyway, that's what I feel about puppies, and though I accept that others will have their own regimes, broadly the above are mine, rightly or not! :)

Alec.
I don't often, but I agree with this completely, some of you don't half complicate things !
 
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Took us a wee while with the current monsters, but the key, I found, was how often they went out. Having bought them in the summer, we were lucky in that they were in the garden a lot of the time and every time they weed where we wanted, there was tons of praise. I do think some pups take longer than others to learn. I too don't think scolding helps, it might even create an issue of the pup trying to hide her toileting.
 

Sandstone1

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How do you allow a puppy to be house clean but still think scolding it is ok?

I do agree with some of what you say but find your attitude somewhat confusing.
 

Alec Swan

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How do you allow a puppy to be house clean but still think scolding it is ok?

…….. .
By 'allowing' so we encourage. If we have a puppy (most) and it wants to be clean, then by recognising when it wants 'outside', so we allow and encourage that. If we don't recognise the tell tail signs, then we have only ourselves to blame. 'IF' however, the puppy has been given every opportunity to leave the house, or even if we've missed the warning signs, then scolding will generally have the effect of reinforcing the 'hang-on' stage.

What in essence I'm saying, is that we accept that a dog will empty themselves outside, but not inside and that we scold them to make our point, and that's despite the fact that it may be our fault!! As bonny says, it's just so easy to over-complicate matters. Our puppy learns that "You do not ***t in the house, and that's that'! There's always of course, the condition that we have to allow them the opportunity to be clean.

House Training and Staying Put are the basics of dog training, I think, and from there we move on.

Alec.
 

planete

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I noticed with my fosters that house training usually fell into place quite quickly when they got used to their new environment and routine and became relaxed enough to behave naturally. An animal which has been in a less than congenial situation is stressed and nerves mean more frequent/uncontrolled toiletting. Telling off such a dog will only increase the stress levels and be counterproductive. A pup who has been playing and running around will feel the need to go, so a bit of a game when taken outdoors can trigger the urge and will also encourage the pup to think life is fun. (it should be for a baby!)
 
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