How are we doing?

[ihatework]

Says very gently because I don’t want to squash your enthusiasm, but I prefer where you are in the earlier videos.

I think you are just falling into a very common trap of over-doing the front end. He is looking too underpowered here.

Hang on - I might have been looking at wrong video / let me double check ...

Right video! But I only got the first bit of trot originally.

My comments stand for all the trot work.
Canter is deffo getting better

 

[Horsekaren]

Says very gently because I don’t want to squash your enthusiasm, but I prefer where you are in the earlier videos.

I think you are just falling into a very common trap of over-doing the front end. He is looking too underpowered here.

Hang on - I might have been looking at wrong video / let me double check ...

Right video! But I only got the first bit of trot originally.

My comments stand for all the trot work.
Canter is deffo getting better

Oooo i dont entirely disagree, i think we are caught at the moment with how much we can actually do. Neither of us are very strong so or balanced, when i ask for a bit more power we then embark in this sort of battle, i feel like at the moment he physically cannot offer me more power because he isnt strong or balanced enough and i cant contain it or offer him my hand steady enough so we end up doing a few laps of this. As soon as i slow it back down we can maintain it.

I'm hoping by keep chipping away with this steady pace he will build muscle and i cant work on improving my contact... not sure if it will work like that :/

None of this canter is intentional

I imagine once i have a better contact i can stop it all rushing out the front.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

It looks a bit flat in your area. Do you have any decent hills that you can hack up and down? The reason I ask this is because I really think that both of you look like you need to get out of the school and do some hill work. Get him walking up and down, using his back and powering from the hind end. You are restricting his head a bit IMO and this should help you too as you will be aiming for having him riding into a contact going uphill, but not having him on the bit. Also the change of position riding up and downhill will help you be less 'fixed' in both your seat and hands. Then progress to doing some trotting uphill.

I really hope that this is possible.

I should explain that by 'fixed' I really mean fixed in your idea to pull his head in. The best advice I was given with my mare early on was to 'forget about what her head was doing and concentrate on feeling her come from leg to hand'.

 

[JFTDWS]

I've said this before, but I think it's worth saying again:

I think you need to stop worrying about his head, and focus on your riding. A good contact comes from good, stable hands, which in turn come from a good seat. Your hands are too mobile and reactive to hold a good contact - if you shorten up your reins at this point, it won't help - to get that elastic contact, you need to work on yourself before the horse. I'd rather see you trotting around without a contact, working the horse from your seat, and learning to keep your hands still, put them where you want them, without interfering with his mouth (which is clearly sensitive) at this point.

Whilst there is considerable improvement in many areas in your later videos, you are still obsessing over his face and trying to have his nose in, because that's what so many people think make it dressage. All that's doing is shortening his neck and making it harder for him to work correctly.

 

[tristar]

i think his canter is superb at times, i would not slow it down at the mo, i like them to go forwards at this stage in canter, you need to preserve the jump of the canter, collected will come to be sure, but not yet, the fact he picks up canter so easily shows he is working within his own present capabilities.

yes trot is slow at times, don`t worry, ride him in his slow rhythm, its his way of moving, if he got fitter he would cope with more forward and offer it.

when he is well warmed up[you could try introducing trot to halt, don`t worry if its all over the shop to start, gradual transition down into halt, up into trot not hanging onto the front,messy does`nt matter, in a short while he will start to use his back end to propel himself forwards and the trot will become more open, but again time and more time, if its a fumble just laugh, play and try,and keep trying

i think the fact he is getting straighter on straight lines is the best thing ever, he is not offering you his back upwards, because he not ready, this makes it difficult to ride well, its not comfortable as it could be, this is reflected in your hands and legs, they move more because he is `` not carrying you``he is working at carrying himself a the mo.

you could try opening your chest, letting your arms hang softly and try to get bent elbows to create a more elastic contact for him to work into, i find this works miracles at times, and i have had horses suddenly surge forwards, i am sure they were thinking, `` thank god shes let go of me gob``ì can go forwards now.

all this shows the patience and sheer time and effort it takes to do it properly

 

[scats]

Says very gently because I don’t want to squash your enthusiasm, but I prefer where you are in the earlier videos.

I think you are just falling into a very common trap of over-doing the front end. He is looking too underpowered here.

Hang on - I might have been looking at wrong video / let me double check ...

Right video! But I only got the first bit of trot originally.

My comments stand for all the trot work.
Canter is deffo getting better

I’m going to agree with this I’m afraid. He’s such a lovely horse, but he’s being very fiddled at the front end which is causing him to curl back to avoid the inconsistency of the contact.
I’m going to suggest slightly shortening your reins but riding with your hands forwards, up and out in front of you. Keep your hands still but not fixed. Make sure you can feel his mouth lightly on the end of the reins at all times, you don’t want it dropping away, them re-appearing, then dropping away again. Horses, as a rule, much prefer to feel a consistency there. This is why fiddling around with reins is generally counter-productive, as they will often curl back to avoid the constant movement of the bit, as your lovely lad is doing.

Forget about his head. Focus on getting a steady, light contact and keeping your hands out and forwards. Give him a consistency. All that’s happening here is you are shortening his neck by fiddling and as a result he is curling back and popping out onto his shoulder. If you don’t have a consistent connection at the front, you will struggle to achieve genuine straightness and this will impact on pretty much everything you do. By straight I mean a horse whose shoulders are in front of their hips, regardless of whether they are on a straight line or circle.
He cannot offer you any more power due to this and that is your fundamental problem at the moment.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

a good strengthening exercise for your lower leg and your balance can be done in trot out hacking-use a neckstrap/mane if you feel you have to rely on his mouth for balance but basically in trot-rise for 7 strides, 2 point for 7 strides and sit for 7 strides without affecting his rythm, all the transitions to rising/two point/sitting must be done very smoothly. just let him trot on a loose rein when doing it and up a hill which will keep him steady and get him working his backside. 2 point is a great way of strengthening your lower leg as is limited amounts of rising trot with no stirrups.

 

[milliepops]

I really feel for the OP because as usual she gets lots and lots of advice, most all on the same general theme but with so many suggestions it must be impossible to find the way though esp when you are so full of enthusiasm and wanting to try your best.
i thought MOC's suggestion above was a great one because until the OP has a bit more strength in her own position the horse is going to struggle to progress. The ability to ride towards a stiller contact comes from some independence in the seat so beginning with basic balance exercises would give a good foundation towards that.

I don't think you'll be able to keep a steady contact without that, keeping a feel on the mouth etc is too difficult when you aren't in good balance to start with.
It's a chicken and egg thing for sure because a balanced forward horse is easier to be balanced on, but as the horse's trainer I think the first step has to come from the rider

 

[MotherOfChickens]

fwiw I do that exercise all the time out hacking, it really does work.

 

[ihatework]

To be honest it all comes back to the suggestions that have been offered a number of times over the months.
Spend less time going round in circles in the school and work more out hacking in conjunction with lots of lunge lessons (potentially on a different horse to start with) to help improve the core stability of the rider.

 

[Floxie]

None of this canter is intentional

This pretty neatly summarises my riding style in 6 words

 

[Horsekaren]

I really am not just trying to pull his head in, that really isnt what im wanting. I agree i am so mobile that i cant offer him much. At the moment i dont try to keep a contact, half of our riding is on a long rein in which he is really starting to stretch. To me it is just so hard because there is so much movement going on (the horse is moving, im posting, we are going forward, flexing, bending ect) and during all of this the most mobile part of a any human body is supposed to be kept still and constant. It is just not easy
We dont have hills but he does live on a slight hill. I will try those exercises MOC, thank you that seems like a fun little activity. Tristar, i will also give the trot to halt transitions a try, i know that will be incredibly hard but as you said, i'll go with the mindset to giggle

 

[ihatework]

I really am not just trying to pull his head in, that really isnt what im wanting. I agree i am so mobile that i cant offer him much. At the moment i dont try to keep a contact, half of our riding is on a long rein in which he is really starting to stretch. To me it is just so hard because there is so much movement going on (the horse is moving, im posting, we are going forward, flexing, bending ect) and during all of this the most mobile part of a any human body is supposed to be kept still and constant. It is just not easy
We dont have hills but he does live on a slight hill. I will try those exercises MOC, thank you that seems like a fun little activity. Tristar, i will also give the trot to halt transitions a try, i know that will be incredibly hard but as you said, i'll go with the mindset to giggle

Riding is difficult! We all struggle with type of thing to a greater or lesser extent, so it’s not ‘you’ it’s just the general path of learning how to ride. I hate to break it to you, but we generally never reach the end of the path either.

Please get a course of lunge lessons at a good riding school. Then a course on your horse. You are dedicated enough that I think you will really notice the difference.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I really am not just trying to pull his head in, that really isnt what im wanting. I agree i am so mobile that i cant offer him much. At the moment i dont try to keep a contact, half of our riding is on a long rein in which he is really starting to stretch. To me it is just so hard because there is so much movement going on (the horse is moving, im posting, we are going forward, flexing, bending ect) and during all of this the most mobile part of a any human body is supposed to be kept still and constant. It is just not easy
We dont have hills but he does live on a slight hill. I will try those exercises MOC, thank you that seems like a fun little activity. Tristar, i will also give the trot to halt transitions a try, i know that will be incredibly hard but as you said, i'll go with the mindset to giggle

the only way of keeping your body stiller (lol) is by strengthening it-so the exercises I mentioned, some work without stirrups (lunge lessons a very good idea and really worth the money) and if you arent confident riding him without stirrups even in halt there are a couple of exercises you can do that will help. other than that, in your spare time any sort of strengthening work-planks, squats, lunges, sit ups, sit on a gym ball etc etc

 

[scats]

I really am not just trying to pull his head in, that really isnt what im wanting. I agree i am so mobile that i cant offer him much. At the moment i dont try to keep a contact, half of our riding is on a long rein in which he is really starting to stretch. To me it is just so hard because there is so much movement going on (the horse is moving, im posting, we are going forward, flexing, bending ect) and during all of this the most mobile part of a any human body is supposed to be kept still and constant. It is just not easy
We dont have hills but he does live on a slight hill. I will try those exercises MOC, thank you that seems like a fun little activity. Tristar, i will also give the trot to halt transitions a try, i know that will be incredibly hard but as you said, i'll go with the mindset to giggle

Sorry OP, I wasn’t trying to accuse you of pulling his head in. I genuinely felt from watching the video that your hands were see-sawing a little bit at times, but I apologise if I got that wrong.
He’s a lovely horse and I admire your determination to learn and do the best by him and I do look forward to hearing your updates x

On a side note- maybe try YouTube for some core strengthening exercises that maybe useful to you?

 

[Tarragon]

a good strengthening exercise for your lower leg and your balance can be done in trot out hacking-use a neckstrap/mane if you feel you have to rely on his mouth for balance but basically in trot-rise for 7 strides, 2 point for 7 strides and sit for 7 strides without affecting his rythm, all the transitions to rising/two point/sitting must be done very smoothly. just let him trot on a loose rein when doing it and up a hill which will keep him steady and get him working his backside. 2 point is a great way of strengthening your lower leg as is limited amounts of rising trot with no stirrups.

I am going to give this exercise a go

 

[DabDab]

Riding is difficult! We all struggle with type of thing to a greater or lesser extent, so it’s not ‘you’ it’s just the general path of learning how to ride. I hate to break it to you, but we generally never reach the end of the path either.

Please get a course of lunge lessons at a good riding school. Then a course on your horse. You are dedicated enough that I think you will really notice the difference.

Absolutely this. Even some non lunge lessons on another horse will help. There is a tendency when you always ride a horse that is quite sensitive in the mouth to over use your rein aids. Not necessarily over using them to get the horse round, but using them as a first port of call to straighten, balance, position or even to ask for more impulsion, rather than using your seat and legs first to make all those adjustments. Riding a horse that is really secure in the contact as well can help you recalibrate your own body consciousness and which aids your using when and for what.

 

[PapaverFollis]

Think about following his mouth with your hands rather than giving the contact away then trying to find it again. You do need to give with your hands but *just* with your hands. I think you are giving with your whole arm then having to use your whole arm to find him again when what it needs is the "give" to come from a loosening of the fingers but then you find him again with a slight tightening of the fingers. Don't worry about what his head is actually doing, just find a soft feel on his mouth and then follow him around as he finds his balance. You need hands that are independant of your seat to do this. So your seat needs to be strong enough to allow that. Keep working on your core and your balance and being able to absorb the movement with your seat.

 

[milliepops]

Just to add to the confusion for the OP I would caution against getting in a habit of loosening your fingers.
When the horse is more secure into the contact then loosening your fingers can result in dropping the contact when you don't mean to
I know what you are getting at PF but for some people thinking that loose fingers gives a more sympathetic contact can actually result in the opposite!

 

[Carrottom]

Just to add to the confusion for the OP I would caution against getting in a habit of loosening your fingers.
When the horse is more secure into the contact then loosening your fingers can result in dropping the contact when you don't mean to
I know what you are getting at PF but for some people thinking that loose fingers gives a more sympathetic contact can actually result in the opposite!

Agree with this, I started to ride with my fingers open and it took a couple of sessions being shouted at to fix it. Can also lead to dropping the reins (my OH does this occasionally, he doesn't have lessons).

 

[MotherOfChickens]

to feel a contact-get a bit and a pair of reins and put it over someone else's forearm (fist upwards)-keep the line from bit to elbow straight. get the person who owns the forearm to move it back and forth slowly-the 'rider' then tries holding the reins with a closed grasp, an open fingered grasp, a horizontal grasp, low hands, high hands etc and gets feedback from the forearm owner. I used to be bad at the loose finger thing (I am chronically lazy) and this was an interesting exercise for me!

 

[Leo Walker]

To be honest it all comes back to the suggestions that have been offered a number of times over the months.
Spend less time going round in circles in the school and work more out hacking in conjunction with lots of lunge lessons (potentially on a different horse to start with) to help improve the core stability of the rider.

To me he just looks really weak and under muscled still. I dont think thats helped with the clipped legs and all that mane, but he still looks weak. He cant maintain the trot and is cantering to avoid it.

Can you get someone else to hack him out if you wont? A hours hack 3 times a week would make an enormous difference to him.

 

[tristar]

Absolutely this. Even some non lunge lessons on another horse will help. There is a tendency when you always ride a horse that is quite sensitive in the mouth to over use your rein aids. Not necessarily over using them to get the horse round, but using them as a first port of call to straighten, balance, position or even to ask for more impulsion, rather than using your seat and legs first to make all those adjustments. Riding a horse that is really secure in the contact as well can help you recalibrate your own body consciousness and which aids your using when and for what.

i was thinking you could try riding a decent well trained horse that works over the back so you can get a feel of a connected horse, ie working from the back end over the back and seeking the contact, so you know what you are aiming for, and gain confidence by actually being able to sit nicely and concentrate on improving and experiencing the sensation of being able to ride better.

 

[JFTDWS]

I really am not just trying to pull his head in, that really isnt what im wanting.

If it's not your intention, it seems to be happening unintentionally. Your hands are very backward thinking in the video, which isn't good - the hand should be forward thinking, not retroactive or inhibiting. I think CDJ said something like you should feel like you're pushing the head forward with your hands, not pulling it backwards (or something like that). If you can't keep your hands still (or moving with the horse) yet, don't take up the reins - keep riding on a looser rein until you have the independence of hand to be able to ride on a shorter rein more successfully. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, with the horse's nose on the floor - but trying to take up a contact when your hands aren't independent will only make life harder for you going forward, when you *have* got yourself sorted, but your horse has learned that contact isn't stable and secure.

I also think DabDab's post is really relevant - don't use your reins for things your seat and legs can fix. Sometimes you need to step away from the contact to achieve that - humans always focus on our hands before everything else, and that's not ideal for the horse!

 

[indie1282]

Your reins are too long and your hands are buried in your lap. You really need to shorten the reins alot and need some bend in the elbow and lift your hands up and forward.

He offer of canter is because he is weak and finds any sort of outline in trot difficult.

Why do you not hack? I think he is probably bored of schooling and I would leave it for now and get him out and about, you will most likely find once he builds up some more fitness he will find the school work much easier.

Also leave the head alone. Dont think about getting him on the bit. Keep a steady consistent contact - if you struggle to keep your hands still pop on a breastplate and hook your little finger under it to help maintain still hands.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Oooo i dont entirely disagree, i think we are caught at the moment with how much we can actually do. Neither of us are very strong so or balanced, when i ask for a bit more power we then embark in this sort of battle, i feel like at the moment he physically cannot offer me more power because he isnt strong or balanced enough and i cant contain it or offer him my hand steady enough so we end up doing a few laps of this. As soon as i slow it back down we can maintain it.

I'm hoping by keep chipping away with this steady pace he will build muscle and i cant work on improving my contact... not sure if it will work like that :/

None of this canter is intentional

I imagine once i have a better contact i can stop it all rushing out the front.

He needs to be fitter for the work you are asking of him and tbh, so do you. You need to develop your core, so that your hands can be independent and so that you can sit in the correct position consistently. Endless schooling is not the way to develop fitness in either of you. Take him hacking. If you are nervous on the roads and think that will 'infect' him, find yourself a 'bombproof' hacking buddy. Is he normally good in traffic? If he is what is the problem with hacking?

 

[Mule]

This is going to be an essay but I hope it helps. First of all there are some nice moments there. I do find a strong core helps me to keep a better/ more still position. For me, it seems to be all about quietness in the saddle. You need a lot of muscle control and a strong core for that. I do reformer Pilates. It strengthens and lengthens the muscles from your head to your toes as well as the core.

Something I've discovered that encourages a horse to raise its back is to take most of my body weight on my thighs rather than my bum.
I kind of hold on to the horse with my upper inside thighs, by the pelvic joint. This tightens my bum and core muscles and helps me absorb the horses motion. Above the hips, I keep my body tall, up through my head. It helps a lot to look straight ahead rather than down.

The beast likes to stretch in to the contact when I have quiet shoulders and elbows, a square chest and slightly wider reins. It helps to shift your weight back to make balance easier for the horse, especially during transitions.

When he does take the contact I relax from my shoulders, that gives him enough softness. You can avoid your reins slipping by relaxing at the shoulders instead of at the hand. When he does stretch in to the contact, you will know because you will feel his back rise. You don't even have to look at the head. I find when I start focussing on the head it all falls apart.

When he's got this you can add to it by putting on your inside leg when his inside hind leg is in the air. That's when your outside seatbone is down in the walk and trot. A gentle squeeze on the outside rein helps too. Before you do that, he has to be happy to put himself on the bit. If you rush it you can become too handsy.

I give lots of breaks on a loose rein so the horse gets to relax, both physically and mentally. If he carries himself for a few strides then I turn the reins loose. I then build up the length of time once he's physically and mentally stronger.

It just takes a while to get the feel for it. It's not easy but practice will get you there. Good luck.

 

[blitznbobs]

My comment would be every time he tries to go forward (canter) you ‘ah ah ah’ him - I’d be telling him he was good for trying - let him canter for a bit then bring him back - did you notice the better quality trot for a few strides after the canter ... I think you are confusing him a bit - every time he goes forward he gets pulled up and then gets asked to go forward again... and your hands need to be stiller too... perhaps shorten your stirrups a hole or two might improve your balance for now

 

[ycbm]

I think if you were to focus (along with everything else 😁) on keeping a bend in your elbows, it would put your hands higher and keep them more still. You will also then need to shorten your reins to maintain the contact, but that's not the primary point. Keep your mind on the elbow bend. That allows your upper arm to follow his mouth while your hand stays still relative to his mouth and will stop that illusion that you are trying to pull his head in.

Great progress since you first started posting 👍 and I love 💖 the mane!

 

[Floxie]

I think CDJ said something like you should feel like you're pushing the head forward with your hands, not pulling it backwards (or something like that).

The way this was described to me which I find a really good way of visualising this is to pull his back legs forwards with your rise, and push his head down with your hands.

If you're pushing his head down and away from you, you can't be backwards thinking with your hands. Imagining pulling his back legs forward as you rise will help create that engine power you need to lift his back.