How can this happen?

[Ample Prosecco]

A friend has just bought a gorgeous looking irish bred mare. Horse showed some worrying behaviour - shut down then explosive - so she contacted the breeder in the passport. Turns out horse was home-bred 8 years ago to event but was never rideable for long. Calm as you like then suddenly rearing, bolting, exploding etc. After years of vets and trainers they made the decision to PTS to secure her future and protect everyone else. Horse had been loaded on a lorry bound for the abbatoir a few weeks ago. Breeder had no idea horse was not dead till my friend rang her. So how did that poor horse end up getting diverted from the abbatoir, shipped over to England and sold on with the original passport? Can't get my head round it but it's just so awful!

My friend was not on dodgy dealers but the UK based person she bought mare off is one of the regulars popping up on there selling broken, lame, drugged, nutty horses. Some people are just vile.

 

[cauda equina]

That's so crap for your friend, and the horse, and a good reason to have your unrideable horse pts at home rather than being shipped off somewhere

Perhaps there could be a page in passports to sign if the horse is destined for slaughter
But that still doesn't get round applying for a new passport

 

[SEL]

That is shocking - breeder must be as horrified as your friend. Abattoir and dealer need reporting. Does she have BHS membership?

 

[chocolategirl]

It is a wonder isn’t it?! Especially given that one of the main drivers for staying in the EU was the so called high standard of animal welfare! I don’t class this as good practise. Something has gone very wrong and decidedly dodgy here? Poor horse, and poor buyer. Like you said, how on earth could this happen. I don’t have the answer sorry, just commiserations for all involved ?

 

[EllenJay]

That is horrendous. Your poor friend, and the poor breeders.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Yes breeder was utterly distraught that her horse ended up in the hands of the dodgiest of the dodgy and offered to buy her back so she could PTS (again!) But rather than subject her to an unnecessary journey by shipping her back to Ireland, my friend put her down yesterday herself. And stayed with her to make sure of it. Just utterly tragic.

It has been reported to trading standards.

 

[ihatework]

This is the murky side to our hobby and it stinks. I hope the breeders take it up on their side.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

We have a yard not too far from us that gets regular deliveries from ireland. They are tried and the down right dangerous ones get shipped back and the others sold. Its heart breaking.

 

[Keith_Beef]

Please correct me if I'm wrong about this, but it seems to me there were several crimes committed here.

Firstly the original breeder had paid somebody to transport the horse to an abattoir to be destroyed, and this did not happen (possibly just breach of contract, rather than a crime, but could be fraud).

The horse, being still alive, was now in the hands of a person with no legal right to it, which is tantamount to theft.

This person then sold the horse on to the dealer in the UK, making that dealer the receiver of stolen goods.

 

[scats]

God that’s horrendous. Feel very sorry for your friend and the breeder.
What dealer did it come through?

 

[Red-1]

I think this happened more than you would think, don't know why I believed it had stopped.

I had my old pony PTS in an abbatoir, before anyone jumps down my throat, the livery yard didn't want him done at home as it was also a riding school, and the pony travelled fine, plus I arranged that he would be PTS on the house lawn with me present.

A friend had taken one there before, but on arrival was told they had finished for the day, but they had a stable for him, the stable was beautiful. Big bed, big net... She left him and was told it was done the next day.

I told them I would not be leaving the pony, he MUST be done while I was there, but on arrival they told me the same. I announced that I would just transport him back home then, and suddenly they could do him after all. It was as good as a PTS can be. He thought he was on his way to a show, he was happy, the lawn was nice, the end quick, I stayed until I was convinced he was gone.

A few years later, a friend bought a wonderful looking horse, that soon went lame. She went back through the passport to previous owner, and contacted them. Guess what? They had gone to the same abattoir, been shown the marvellous stable, which was just 'for overnight' and had left him there.

Thank goodness I had remained firm. By hook or by crook, I was going to be there at the end. Especially thankful as it was an abattoir that was years later featured for cruelty!

I guess the abattoir could have claimed that they 'bought' the horses? They did pay. I think I got £40 for the pony.

I have PTS since, on our own lawn by the vet. One of the marvels of having your own place and being able to make your own decisions.

 

[shortstuff99]

How awful! The dealer wasn't one that is based in Essex is it?

 

[Ample Prosecco]

God that’s horrendous. Feel very sorry for your friend and the breeder.
What dealer did it come through?

It's in the hands of trading standards now. Not sure what rules are about naming people?

KB I agree crimes have been committed but over in Ireland so not sure how much interest the police here will take. I am sure the UK dealer put people between them and her to make sure she can claim ignorance. It stinks to high heaven.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Oh my god! This is horrific. My first port of call would be the transporter.
As above though sending a horse off to be destroyed in my opinion is pretty poor and why this sort of thing is able to happen. Ultimately the buck stops with the owner.

 

[Berpisc]

There was an incident near me a few years ago where a transporter dumped a pony on the roadside....

 

[Winters100]

How terrible - your poor friend. Awful thing to happen.

Where I am based people sell horses for meat and they are collected by the abattoir (transported in horrendous conditions). Welfare organizations sometimes 'rescue' the horses, buying them directly from the abattoir, but I have always wondered are they sometimes 'rescuing' horses who cannot have any quality life.

It occurs to me that whether any crime has been committed depends upon the agreement made with the abattoir. If they had simply bought the horse, with no condition that it must be destroyed, then I suppose legally they are within their rights. The morality is of course another question.

 

[ycbm]

I don't know why anyone is feeling sorry for an Irish breeder who "secured her horses future" by sending an adult and very dangerous horse off to an abattoir with a stranger instead of delivering it themselves or having it shot at home.
.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

.... Deleted as don't want to gte into a discussion about people I don't know on a public forum. JUst was so shocked that this could happen. Shows how naive I am.

 

[ycbm]

Dreadful thing to happen to your friend, AE, and the poor horse, but thank goodness she ended up with a responsible owner who wasn't focused on recouping any of her loss. She's lucky she got away without serious injury.

 

[ycbm]

Breeder home-bred a horse. Spent thousands on trying to get it right. Secured its future by paying for transport and PTS rather than selling on. AND bought the horse back to ensure the horse was saved from a future of being passed round from pillar to post. But, yeah, the breeder is the bad guy here.

Thanks for the additional information. They paid your friend for the horse? That really is very good of them.

Yet I still think s/he's one of the bad guys in the whole thing, not top of the list, obviously. Why would they pay for transport to an abattoir instead of paying someone to shoot the horse?

This whole story is not new, it's happened time and again before, and it was predictable that a good looking horse which behaves well enough to sell and is worth a lot of money as a riding horse could end up in the situation which it has.

The person I feel sorry for in this story is your friend who bought her.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

And the poor bl00dy horse

 

[Meowy Catkin]

20 odd years ago I knew two horses (different owners) who were bought from the abattoirs lorry. One had no issues, the second - a very pretty buckskin - was a nightmare to ride. The new owner took it in her stride but looking back on it I can't help but wonder if there was a physical issue causing the behaviour.

 

[Fluffypiglet]

This is horrific. Poor horse. Many years ago I had an accident on my horse (severely concussed, broken pelvis) and the YO arranged for my horse to be PTS at the abbatoir. There was nothing I could do about it. Horse had an injury which is why my accident happened. I hope to god that he was PTS and not passed on. I couldn't do anything about how he went, it would never be a disposal method I would choose but sometimes things happen. Awful awful situation. Bah.

 

[Polos Mum]

In other countries there is a whole industry 'rescuing' horses from the kill pen. I assume the abattoir 'buys' the horse from the owner and if they chose to sell it rather than kill it they are entitled to do so. (happy to be corrected on that but I'm not sure legal crimes have occurred). Stupid of the dealer not to bother with the £50 to get a new passport - they must be really scrimping. If they had done that all parties would be non the wiser, so I bet this goes on more than we realise.

It's not beyond imagination that iffy abattoir has an arrangement with iffy dealer that if something comes in looking OK they get a call.

Terrible for the UK buyer but a good reason why the £150 to get the knackerman to come to your house is well worth it for those in horrible situations with horses that are at risk of being passed around to the unknowledgeable.

 

[Jeni the dragon]

Poor horse and I really feel for your friend AE! I'm glad she did the right thing but she must feel awful.

 

[Dyllymoo]

God this makes me so sad. The poor horses in these situations.

And this is why I will never buy another horse again

 

[Ample Prosecco]

In other countries there is a whole industry 'rescuing' horses from the kill pen. I assume the abattoir 'buys' the horse from the owner and if they chose to sell it rather than kill it they are entitled to do so. (happy to be corrected on that but I'm not sure legal crimes have occurred).

It's not beyond imagination that iffy abattoir has an arrangement with iffy dealer that if something comes in looking OK they get a call.

Terrible for the UK buyer but a good reason why the £150 to get the knackerman to come to your house is well worth it for those in horrible situations with horses that are at risk of being passed around to the unknowledgeable.

Got a bit more info this am - breeder paid a slaughter man to collect the horse. So this is looking like crime? She's getting legal advice to pursue the slaughterman/ abattoir. And my friend is going after the dealer via trading standards.

But I'm sure these vile people know how to cover their tracks and get away with it.

I hate people, sometimes

 

[ihatework]

Got a bit more info this am - breeder paid a slaughter man to collect the horse. So this is looking like crime? She's getting legal advice to pursue the slaughterman/ abattoir. And my friend is going after the dealer via trading standards.

But I'm sure these vile people know how to cover their tracks and get away with it.

I hate people, sometimes

I suppose it would depend on what the ‘contract’ between the breeder and slaughter man actually was. Were they just paid to collect and take away without explicit instruction to kill? If so whilst a bit underhand they may not have technically done anything wrong.

 

[ycbm]

Got a bit more info this am - breeder paid a slaughter man to collect the horse.

This would make no sense in England. Here, if you pay a slaughterman to collect a horse he kills it and takes it away dead. If you have a horse taken away alive for slaughter, you are normally paid meat money for it.

 

[The Bouncing Bog Trotter]

Awful but happens a lot. A horse on my old yard arrived with an ID passport as an Irish sports horse. We scanned for a chip and found out that he was a very well bred Dutch warmblood who has show jumped at a high level. It was the same situation, the poor horse was sent to the abattoir as he had a significant injury and somehow ended up, via Ireland, in the yard of a local dodgy dealer.