How do I be subtle with my farrier without causing offence?!

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mischamoo

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Whilst I value my farrier and the work he does on my horse's feet very much I don't wish to sound like I'm teaching him to suck eggs, BUT, he took my mare's back shoes off two weeks ago and left her very sore, it's taken 2 weeks to get her to come right. I had the vet out initially to check there was nothing untowards going on as I initially thought it was coming from her leg. After an examination, vet concluded it was in fact her hoof and that she'd basically been trimmed too short (as if she was having a shoe put on) and her sole and frog had been trimmed incredibly short too. Being relatively new to shoeless horses, what do I exactly ask for when farrier next comes out? Whilst I don't want to insult my farrier by telling him how to do his job I don't want another sore horse. Is the farrier simply meant to leave the sole and frog well alone and simply just trim up the hoof if it's required? Sorry for sounding naive but I'm used to shod horses and unsure what the farrier is meant to trim/do on shoeless feet!
 
Just tell him she was sore last time.

Even the grumpiest farrier is ok if you mention a problem in a matter of fact way. They need the feedback, both good and bad otherwise they can't change what isn't working.
Genuine farriers take pride in their work and the one's that I thought would bite my head off, were actually really pleased that I'd been upfront about a problem.
You and the farriers are partners. You work together. They get disillusioned with owners that aren't bothered, so if your generally happy with his work - get a dialogue going.
 
dogatemysalad said:
Just tell him she was sore last time.

They need the feedback, both good and bad otherwise they can't change what isn't working.
Genuine farriers take pride in their work and the one's that I thought would bite my head off, were actually really pleased that I'd been upfront about a problem.
You and the farriers are partners. You work together. They get disillusioned with owners that aren't bothered, so if your generally happy with his work - get a dialogue going.
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Brilliantly put.
 
dogatemysalad said:
Just tell him she was sore last time.

Even the grumpiest farrier is ok if you mention a problem in a matter of fact way. They need the feedback, both good and bad otherwise they can't change what isn't working.
Genuine farriers take pride in their work and the one's that I thought would bite my head off, were actually really pleased that I'd been upfront about a problem.
You and the farriers are partners. You work together. They get disillusioned with owners that aren't bothered, so if your generally happy with his work - get a dialogue going.
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^^Ideally this^^ But IME many farriers do not take kindly to any kind of criticism, constructive or otherwise. I'd just tell him what the vet said - he can take up a dialogue with the vet if he disagrees. And I would ask him not to trim the sole or frog next time.
 
But it's not a criticism - it's feedback.

Do you never chat to your farrier about how your horse has been since last shod etc??

It's almost the first question my farrier asks me 'how's he been? any problems?' etc.
 
My horse hasn't had back shoes for 5 years, farrier runs his rasp round the edge and that's about all he needs to do. In my case, the shoes were whipped off and she was left to get on with it. Another owner didn't tell him that she also wanted to go unshod behind so he trimmed to put a shoe on. That horse was footy for about two months so you're lucky to get away with two weeks. Be around when he comes and make sure you don't let him trim anything off the backs, nor do the frogs need tidying up as they need to develop with stimulation.
 
If he's a decent farrier, all you should have to do is mention next time that she was sore for a while after her shoes were taken off, and he should take that on board and adjust how he trims her automatically.

In my experience its when owners suggest alterations in how the horse is shod or trimmed and mention 'what the vet said' as if they have been having discussions behind his back then they can take umbrage. He's a professional with a lot of training so give him a chance this time.

You will be able to tell a lot by how he reacts to your feedback. If he is dismissive, then you may well have a problem.
 
Thank you all for your suggestions.

Generally he helps himself to the horses as I often cannot be there when he arrives to shoe and is on his own with them so if work dictates I may try and get there for next shoeing just to have a chat with him to explain she was left sore at the last shoeing and please can he simply leave paring the sole and frog and run round with the rasp if neccessary. If I cannot get there, I'll call him the day before to have chat like I normally do and when he asks me how she's been, that may be the ideal opportunity to bring it up.

He is very good at his job and I've never have any issues with his work, hence why I feel uncomfortable broaching this with him without seeming like I'm criticising his work. But I think speaking to him when he asks how's she's been may prove to be the ideal time to just ask if he can leave the sole and frog this time as she was left sore at the last shoeing.
 
amymay said:
Simply book the time off to ensure you are there for the farrier??
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If only it was that easy! I’m often relied upon last minute to be called into work (even if I have annual leave booked) so can never guarantee I’ll be around. I will speak with him on the phone the day before he comes.
 
amymay said:
But it's not a criticism - it's feedback.

Do you never chat to your farrier about how your horse has been since last shod etc??

It's almost the first question my farrier asks me 'how's he been? any problems?' etc.
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Well, you're lucky! And I did say constructive criticism, which is feedback!

My last farrier made my horse lame, refused point blank to discuss, well, pretty much anything with me during the months of on/off lameness my horse suffered. I tried repeatedly to talk about my concerns about my horse's poor medial lateral balance/long toes/underrun heels to no avail. His mantra was "there's only one way to shoe a horse..my/the right way!". He also refused to discuss anything with my vet. I ignored my gut and stuck with him for far too long because he was the best of a very bad bunch:

Farrier before that was let go because he turned up hungover and incapable on more than one occasion.

Farrier before that was sacked on the spot for whacking my horse with a rasp. Not because of anything the horse had done but because it was getting dark, he'd shown up 3 hours late and even with all the yard lights on he couldn't see properly and lost his temper.

Farrier before that was let go because of repeated no shows, refusal to answer calls/reply to texts.

Farrier before that was sacked on the spot for punching!! my horse on the nose. He was also a sexist pig (I could just about have tolerated the smutty comments if he'd actually been any good at his job).

This was over the course of 8 years, and these were all very experienced, fully qualified, FRC registered farriers. Not once did any of these ''professionals' ever enquire as to how my horse had been since his last visit. Now, maybe Yorkshire is just particularly dire when it comes to good farriers but I don't think so.
 
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Crikey BM, you have been unlucky !

I didn't realise how different areas could be regarding all things equine until I moved to another county. Took me several attempts to find a good farrier. So much so that I was seriously thinking about doing the trimmers course to do my own. Fortunately, I now know a few decent ones.
In my former county, I took it for granted that there was an easy choice of excellent farriers.

Took me months to find a good EDT. It does seem that some areas are better served than others for everything horsey.
 
dogatemysalad said:
Crikey BM, you have been unlucky !

I didn't realise how different areas could be regarding all things equine until I moved to another county. Took me several attempts to find a good farrier. So much so that I was seriously thinking about doing the trimmers course to do my own. Fortunately, I now know a few decent ones.
In my former county, I took it for granted that there was an easy choice of excellent farriers.

Took me months to find a good EDT. It does seem that some areas are better served than others for everything horsey.
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I tried everything to persuade my old farrier (we were happy together for 15 years) to come down from Scotland for the day every 6 weeks, that's how desperate I was!
I really hope I've just been horribly unlucky and my experience is not representative of the rest of the country.
 
Unlikely the hinds will need any work at all , ever : if unshod, the frog does not need cutting back, just examine for disease, and you can do that yourself. Walking on a road 20 mins per day will have a rasping effect and encourage frog development.
Buy First Feet and learn about his feet, you are looking after all other parts of the horse, you can learn more about the feet.
Recently I had a shoeing farrier came to trim my boy's feet which had been neglected, and I did say he could trim the front fairly short as they had been neglected. He was footy on rough ground for a week, but in the past I never had to touch them for 12 months, though often asked a farrier if they were ok, I think one said "don't waste your money when I asked him to look at them and see if I could improve them.
By the way best not to mention "barefoot" just ask for "pasture trim".
The idea of Mustang Roll" is just to rasp off the edges to prevent the wall breaking. I used to rasp round once a week.
Not all farriers want to see horses without shoes, they charge £20 for a pasture trim and £70 for a set of shoes, so it is easy for them to clear £150 per day if shoeing, but not if trimming.
You have to realise that what is in the horse's best interest may not be in the farrier's best interest and vice versa, but I think it is just habit, they way they attack the frogs as soon as they lift the foot.
 
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Buddy'sMum said:
I tried everything to persuade my old farrier (we were happy together for 15 years) to come down from Scotland for the day every 6 weeks, that's how desperate I was!
I really hope I've just been horribly unlucky and my experience is not representative of the rest of the country.
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Its horrible when you leave behind the great people you know.
Hope you find someone good soon.
 
amymay said:
But it's not a criticism - it's feedback.

Do you never chat to your farrier about how your horse has been since last shod etc??

It's almost the first question my farrier asks me 'how's he been? any problems?' etc.
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^^ This. I rarely see my farrier so he texts to ask prior to doing him, and i then get an update with how his feet are doing/wearing etc etc. Its so important - and why I've not changed farrier for years and years as he knows all there is to know about my horse.

What your saying to him is not criticism and shouldn't be given or taken that way. Its a simple statement of fact and he will appreciate knowing as he doesn't want to lame your horse either and certainly he wont want to loose a client rather than talking about it!
 
Out of interest, and I know its difficult for those who work full time; do you take time off or get the trimmer/farrier to come at the weekend, and if not, do you all discuss your horses feet etc with him/her before and after?

Just wondering as one of my liveries is never here for the farrier, she only calls him when ( and her words, not mine ) "he starts tripping up!" Never asks about them and isn't bothered in the slightest that they are badly chipped and frogs very thrushy!

I think as owners we should be knowledgeable about hoof care ( and everything else )
 
I would make sure I was there next time and say something along the lines of 'she was sore last time when we took the shoes off' then ask the question - 'do you think we should leave the frog and sole?'....this way you are talking like you are a team (using the word 'we') and saving his dignity asking him a question rather than giving him instructions!! Good luck.
 
I have always been very lucky in that all the farriers I have worked with have been top class, and three of them world class! but their average customer does not spend much time discussing things with them,, and they have to work fairly quickly to get everything done, so unless you discuss your concerns you don't always get feedback.
And if they get customers who are neglecting feet, but are not on hand when horse is shod, it is unlikely they will contact customer to tell them, otherwise they lose a customer. Of course once they are established, they can drop such people!
The main concern most people have is that the shoes stay on, the longer the better it seems.
They don't tend give out much advice, though most will point out disease if owner is on hand.
 
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