How do I know when she is ready?? Sorry, long.

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Spotsrock

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Regular users probably know I have a 31 y/o Irish x TB who has been with me for 16 years and whom I love very much. Lottie is an absolute star. I bought her from a riding school who had bought her through market (I suspect Melton or Derby) where she was sold as excess stock from a hunt yard. She has a whip scar next to one eye and a huge deep scar in the muscle on her rump which I had radiotherapy on and the guy who came to do it said would have been patched up badly, probably by her groom rather than a vet and caused her pain for a number of years.

Despite this she is the most sweet natured loving ponio ever, we have jumped at a reasonable level, despite her really prefering not to, we have hunted, despite me really prefering not to, and covered miles out on hacks, both forwards when it goes well, and backwards when not. She has been with me through adolesence, kidnap and all the traumas of life.

More recently she has been a 'spare' ridden horse when friends come then Sharer's much loved on loan pet until she had to take a slower pace of life, she then started to teach my OH to ride though this is now a little much for her. Lottie is now our much prized field ornament.

She has been looking a bit tired for some time though she does still run about with the herd a little. She is out with 3 horses, all mares who she has known for over 4 years, 2 of them since they were babies themselves who she surrogated after weaning.

Lottie has arthritis in her hocks which has not really been a problem but this spring it has developed in her knees. I use 'Buteless' and have now put her on a double dose. She also has pyometra though no symptoms have shown for a year now. I did put her on bute (with vets auth obviously) but she won't eat it in her feed. This has never been a problem before so it feels like she is rejecting it. I tried to seringe (sp) it down her throat and despite being good to worm this way, this did not go well with end result I couldn't catch her eventually. I have stopped this now and she is coming for feed and cuddles.

She is sound just a little stiff and when standing in the field she shifts her weight about a bit like a child being told off! This morning while I rode B she had a lie down and a snooze. When I went to fuss her, Ice came too so she got up. On the 1st attempt she crashed back down as if her legs just wouldn't do it. She is so good, just waits for a bit, organises her legs better then gets up. I worry that if she gets stuck and can't drink she will suffer though this is the first time I have seen it happen (I do see her lie down and get up quite often) and I know she is safe enough with the other girls, then there is the indignity of pooping on herself if she gets stuck down though I may be projecting human emotion.

She seems so happy a lot of the time but tired. How do I know when to help her go?? The mixed life she has had she damn well deserves me to get this right for her at least. We had planned for Nov as although she got through last winter very well, I did not want her stabled or out in the cold with her increasing stiffness.

Do you think I am being fair to give her one last summer or am I really giving myself and Sharer (who turns 16 in oct) 1 last summer?? If I am holding off till Nov for our sakes more than hers but she is not in pain and gets some enjoyment from her summer, is it so wrong?? We expected her to go May last year when her pyometra was bad so we have had an extra 13 months already but it is not enough. How do I know for sure when she is ready?? Will I ever be ready??

I know people will all have opinions and I am inviting them but please try to be kind even if you disagree with me as this is the hardest thing I will ever do, I would really welcome your reasoning for your opinions as it may bring ideas I have not thought of.

Coffee and cake if you got this far, sorry it's so long but the clue was in the title!
 
That sounds like a very very difficult thing to decide.

I would suggest you get your vet out (assuming you have a vet who knows her well and you trust very strongly) and ask them what they think. It is so difficult to make a totally objective decision about this sort of thing, and an objective opinion from your vet will mean you will not end up make her struggle on for too long, and will mean you would not be left thinking 'should i have given her longer'.

All the best with whatever you decide, you sound like a wonderfully caring owner. Please can you look after me when I get old?

Sarah
 
At our yard there is an old pony that has cushions and they are being tormented with when they should let him go, he goes a week without hardly moving and then he has days where he trots and attempts to canter, I often say he looks good today and that makes his owner seem happy that he is still about, yet on other days he looks strained and distant and struggles to get up and walk around and his owner says if he stays like this for any longer they will PTS then off he goes again for a day or 2.

Back to your question, I don't think you can put a date on when is fair but it has to be down to what is best for her, if you think she is suffering more than enjoying then that would be the time to PTS, but if she enjoys mor ehtan struggles then she should be given the chance to live until she enjoys a little less.

Sorry to you that you have come to decision time but maintain all the good memories you have shared....
 
If only every horse owner out there was as kind and giving as you :)

I have never been in this situation (thankgod) so i cannot offer any advice but you sound like you've given her a fantastic life :) I'm sure she'll know that you'll be looking after her. I really believe that horses communicate more than we realise so i think that she'll tell you when she's ready. Hopefully someone more experienced than me can share some advice on this. Good luck in whatever you decide to do and remember that you have been a fantastic friend to this pony :) xx
 
I really feel for you - but only you know your horse well enough to know if she is or isn't in pain. You do say she's not in pain but this part of your post indicates to me that she might be:

Spotsrock said:
On the 1st attempt she crashed back down as if her legs just wouldn't do it.
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Has she lost weight recently, or is she still in good condition?

I think that if it were me, I would also want to give her the summer, but if she's struggling to get up and is looking tired, it might be better to do it sooner. As others say, better a month too early than a day too late.

Thoughts are with you
 
She has always been grumpy when in pain and she is not grumpy at all, not even with annoying little Ice, except when Icey tries to pinch her tea!! It's not like it hurts, just like her legs didn't quite listen when she told them to function and she had to have another go.

She was rail thin winter 2009/2010 but the vet irregated her womb and she piled on the weight through winter 2010/2011, she hasn't really lost weight this spring, though I have tried to keep an eye on it, she has cushings so I am wary of lami. Her muscle tone is not too bad either considering she has gone from light work to no work but I think this is living out with the herd and the type of feed she has.

I used to ride B and lead Lottie round the block a couple times a week and she loved it but she is a little too stiff now for me to be confident that she won't be sore by time we get back. I do take her for short walks to graze the verge and have a change of scenery every week or so though.

She is a very articulate little horse, if I do something with her 1 day and it is too much she doesn't come for cuddles next day. That's how I new she needed to retire, couldn't catch her for 2 days after the last 2 rides! And how she refused her Bute, and her lead rein hacks. She never takes the proverbial and uses this to get out of anything and I feed her in the field so she usually is keen to come for a chat, if she doesn't then she is really put out with me!!
 
I have an old boy who is about 30. He is happy and healthy but a couple of months ago I had just turned him out and walked away from the field only to turn round and see him on the ground on his side. I thought he had just rolled and was about to get up but he didn't and just lay there. At that point we knew this wasn't normal and ran back to the field to try and get him up. Anyway he did manage after his field mate bit him hard on the neck as if he was saying come on get up! Vet came and checked him over and concluded that it was just his stiff hocks and that pain relief was now in order. He has been on one Danilon a day since then and this has made so much difference to him. He actually seems perkier than before and in hindsight he may have been in more discomfort than I had realised which makes me feel bad. I do worry when I see him roll but he seems fine for now. He hates bute and even trying to disguise it in syrup and ginger biscuits has only worked as a temporary solution as he always knows. The Danilon is no problem and he happily eats it in his feed. Could this be a solution for you? As others have said you know your horse. I know I will be in your position one day which I am dreading but for me as long as my horse is happy then I'm happy to look after his needs.
 
I hadn't even registered that Danilon was not a trade name for Bute! That's worth trying then. That's why I posted on here!!
 
Trust your own gut instinct, you know the horse better than anyone - you will know when she is in too much discomfort :(
My old mare a few years ago almost screamed at me that it was time. She had been retired only 6 months, one sunday morning she just did not want cuddles / carrots etc so I made the descision to ring the vet monday as I just knew something was wrong.
By monday morning she could not eat & was in a very sorry state - wish I hadn't been a scrooge & avoided the sunday call out costs.
Last thing - make sure you have decided how you want it done - disposal etc, it's not a nice thing to think about - but trust me it's even worse trying to make a descision when your emotions are all over the place.
 
As we elderly lot need a boost now and then. But my old gelding(37 when he went) on pro cell or something like that, just when he started loosing weight when the weather turned cold, that when I had him done so to speak.
 
She desn't sound like she's ready to me. I would try her with danilon rather than bute as it tastes nicer. If she came through last winter fine, I don't think there's any reason not to let he keep going. Personally, I could never plan euthanasia. It would have to be a case of seeing the horse one morning and just knowing she'd had enough. With my friend, it was the day her boy couldn't get up. He had struggled once before but then gone through 6 months with no further problems, but one morning he just couldn't get to his feet. The vet was called, and he had a peaceful end.
 
Wagtail said:
She desn't sound like she's ready to me. I would try her with danilon rather than bute as it tastes nicer. If she came through last winter fine, I don't think there's any reason not to let he keep going. Personally, I could never plan euthanasia. It would have to be a case of seeing the horse one morning and just knowing she'd had enough. With my friend, it was the day her boy couldn't get up. He had struggled once before but then gone through 6 months with no further problems, but one morning he just couldn't get to his feet. The vet was called, and he had a peaceful end.
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That's how I felt till I saw her through the winter before last, she was a bag of bones held together with skin and I never want to risk that again although she came through it well eventually, she just couldn't fight the illness at that time. She is stronger healthwise now but just a bit quiet and wobbly. I don't want to risk it being a moment too late but then I can't bear it a moment too soon. This mare has got me through things most people (thankfully) don't have to deal with and was with me for the worst, I owe her sooo much. It would be lovely if she just told me one morning but I worry that she won't be able to.
 
Spotsrock said:
That's how I felt till I saw her through the winter before last, she was a bag of bones held together with skin and I never want to risk that again although she came through it well eventually, she just couldn't fight the illness at that time. She is stronger healthwise now but just a bit quiet and wobbly. I don't want to risk it being a moment too late but then I can't bear it a moment too soon. This mare has got me through things most people (thankfully) don't have to deal with and was with me for the worst, I owe her sooo much. It would be lovely if she just told me one morning but I worry that she won't be able to.
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Just because she goes into the winter, does not mean she has to fight her way through the whole of the winter. You won't know how she is going to cope until you try her. She may fly through it without problems, especially if you try her on the danilon. I never understand this 'one more summer thing'. A horse is ready when it's ready, not by a date imposed up on it by us humans. I am sure you will know when she's had enough. Just write down some criteria for making that judgement and stick to them.
 
I am assuming she has an open pyometra rather than a closed one? A rumbling pyo will make her very sick indeed, maybe she need some antibiotics, see if that perks her up a bit? xx
 
Devonshire dumpling said:
I am assuming she has an open pyometra rather than a closed one? A rumbling pyo will make her very sick indeed, maybe she need some antibiotics, see if that perks her up a bit? xx
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Her lady bits were oozing a vile goo last winter and the vet came and pumped warm saline ito her and tubed it all out in May. He saw her again in July and barely recognised her, he saw her again in November when he came to vaccinate the baby and again in May to vaccinate her and B. I try to get him to ultrasound her womb but he just says she looks great there is no goo and she is very fit and healthy so he won't as he says it's uneccessary. He does manually feel her for pain responses and abnormalities, he is a fab vet, very practical and I have a lot of faith in his assessment as he saved B's tail after a freak accident a couple years ago. I'll have to have him out to prescribe danilon so I could ask him if it could have closed since he emptied her when he comes.
 
Spotsrock said:
Her lady bits were oozing a vile goo last winter and the vet came and pumped warm saline ito her and tubed it all out in May. He saw her again in July and barely recognised her, he saw her again in November when he came to vaccinate the baby and again in May to vaccinate her and B. I try to get him to ultrasound her womb but he just says she looks great there is no goo and she is very fit and healthy so he won't as he says it's uneccessary. He does manually feel her for pain responses and abnormalities, he is a fab vet, very practical and I have a lot of faith in his assessment as he saved B's tail after a freak accident a couple years ago. I'll have to have him out to prescribe danilon so I could ask him if it could have closed since he emptied her when he comes.
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A closed pyo is usually a medical emergency and she would go into toxic shock, so doubt its closed :-) sounds like the flushing helped, its often after a season, so doubt her seasons are that regular now? might flare up again in the future? Bless her, just keep hehr comfortable I think you will know when the times right, not us :-) xxxxxx
 
I just owe her soooo much and am terrified of getting it wrong, I've never had to do it before and it's a huge responsibility. She is my little treasure and I realise that at times in my teens she was a bit taken for granted.

The way her little tired face lights up when I arrive makes my day. We all check each others and I could just go up in a morning to ride and feed everything it's supplements and sharer or the yard superstar would pm check for me but I have to go up to get my pm Lottie cuddle!!

I have some useful input from my post, she didn't have a season this year for the first time although she was with a mixed herd when the others came into season and someone suggested Danilon as being different to Bute so she may eat it. Also as someone suggested I have been blinkered at giving her one last summer but she likes coming in and having her rugs done and her tea and hay so she might not mind going in the winter either, she loves snow especially! It's just the stiffness in the cold or standing in but the danilon may help with that.

Thank you lovely HHO people I feel a little better now.
 
I'm the Sharer :) Just thought you all might want a picture of the old little lady we're talking about :)

lottie-1.jpg


lottie.jpg
 
We keep all our horses for the rest of their lives, so have had to make this decision a fair few times over the years. The Old Appy was the hardest choice to make, she had been with us for well over 20 years and had gone down hill when her old friend died, but got a new lease of life when we got the Current Appy. We had the deed done at the end of her last summer, she was tired, had slowed down a vast amount and was spending more and more time on her own, away from the rest of the herd. She was on bute daily and was getting stiffer and stiffer (she did get some help from magnet boots) We decided that if she was so tired in the summer, when she was using less energy to keep warm and the ground was easier for her to manage, the winter was just going to be too much for her. The last thing I wanted to happen was for her to dimminsh and have time where she wasn't at least contented, I owed her far more than that, she had been my friend for such a long time. I would go with the end of the summer, winter (expecially if it is wet) is hard for old horses.
 
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