how do you decide when you are ready to move up a level?

[diggerbez]

just interested really...how do you decide when to move up to the next level- from unaffiliated to affiliated or up the levels themselves....so- do you only move up when getting placed at the level below or does something else help you decide? is there a difference between the disciplines?

 

[NR99]

Move up NOWWWWWWW

Lols, probably the best motivator is when you have had several confidence runs at the current level, it feels easy and you are starting to wonder what the next challenge is.

Probs not just before a major event like a wedding though

 

[racingdemon]

If I waited until I got placed we'd still be doing 80cm unaffil!!

Generally I move up when the level of the moment feels 'easy' ..... hard to put into words I think, more of a general feeling of needing a bigger test/challenge

 

[diggerbez]

Move up NOWWWWWWW

Lols, probably the best motivator is when you have had several confidence runs at the current level, it feels easy and you are starting to wonder what the next challenge is.

Probs not just before a major event like a wedding though

hahaha wasn't actually specifically about me/my dilemma (not as much of a dilemma as having to explain to my mum that i have broken my leg and can't fly to the US for my wedding would be eep )...just a general musing after a discussion at the yard... i have decided that i need (mentally) to be jumping BS newcomers before i go out and do a BE Novice- that way it'll feel easy?! (thats the plan anyway!)

 

[kerilli]

when it feels very easy at a given level. usually this coincides with being competitive at that level, more or less. when i used to do BD i moved up when i was getting good percentages and, ideally, top 1 or 2 placings at that level. for eventing, i use the points system as a good indicator, e.g. mine have been ready to go Intermediate when they've been on 18-22 points ish... but most weren't dressage divas, if they had been that might have been too soon!

 

[georgiegirl]

Like the above I dont necessarily go on placings but when it becomes 'easy' your ready for the next step up to challenge yourself!

That said I had one BE90 in mind this season before moving up to BE100 but after having thought about it a bit more Ive entered 2 BE90's instead just so that were feeling MEGA confident Its good to challenege yourself and move on up but theres no rush!

 

[charlimouse]

With Jem i've entered her for the Novice at Richmond. The other week at Breckenborough she made everything feel ridiculously easy, and was taking strides out, she felt so uber confident. It does help that so far she has had a 11th, 5th and 6th in her 3 BE100 runs this season, and she did the Novice JAS and made it feel easy. Richmond is always my step up event, so it was a no brainer to enter for the novice and see how we get on. I always switch between levels for a little while just to keep the horse's confidence, so for a while I will alternate between BE100 and Novice.

Regardless of what horse I was on I would want several very good solid performances at a level before I would consider moving up.

I am more willing to take a gamble with dressage, as the danger element isn't quite the same. But having said that I only do unaffiliated under sufference during the winter, so what do I know!

 

[LEC]

I would definitely agree to jumping a newcomers before going BE Novice. I was one of those who came unstuck at novice first time round with a lack of preparation. Second time I was much better prepared and pinged round the whole lot and never came unstuck again.

By jumping newcomers you will get to BE and it will seem fine because you have the confidence from jumping it before and it always appears slightly nicer at BE and you will need that because if you are anything like me then you get more nervous at BE than BS!!

I also think you walk all the novice courses and think they look more exciting than what you are doing! I walked a lot of novice courses before doing it so I knew exactly what I would find and could practice. Also it gets your eye in.

 

[diggerbez]

when it feels very easy at a given level. usually this coincides with being competitive at that level, more or less. when i used to do BD i moved up when i was getting good percentages and, ideally, top 1 or 2 placings at that level. for eventing, i use the points system as a good indicator, e.g. mine have been ready to go Intermediate when they've been on 18-22 points ish... but most weren't dressage divas, if they had been that might have been too soon!

what would you class as good percentages for dressage? mid 60s or super scores (70s plus?)... although i rarely get super scores i am always disappointed unless its 68% and above- dunno why i have that in my head as a 'good' score...

 

[diggerbez]

Like the above I dont necessarily go on placings but when it becomes 'easy' your ready for the next step up to challenge yourself!

That said I had one BE90 in mind this season before moving up to BE100 but after having thought about it a bit more Ive entered 2 BE90's instead just so that were feeling MEGA confident Its good to challenege yourself and move on up but theres no rush!

probably a good plan! mine did about 5 PNs last year and i still came out at intro this year- he absolutely ate it up and i wished i'd done the PN...but much rather this way round than crashing and burning at the higher level


CM- sure that Jem will be FINE at novice...she is so classy PN and looked fab in your JAS pics

LEC- yes, really don't want to crash and burn, that would completely shred my confidence...would rather take my time! gives me time/chance to get good at dressage then doesn't it!

 

[Santa_Claus]

My basic move up is when the current level becomes easy.

For pure dressage I would want 65% minimum every time out for an absolute minimum of 5 outings. There are some exceptions ie some horse will do rubbish at prelim/novice due to their natural frame and dullness o the tests. Also eventers at the higher levels may do a higher dressage test than a pure dressage rider would to fit with their eventing level as well some eventers will never get 65% no matter how hard the rider tries

Showjumping I would want consistentt double clears with maybe the odd pole but basically double clears all the way.

Eventing again regular double clears or near double clears. Some eventers again just don't respect showjumps but as long as safe and consistently clear xc then yes to moving up as otherwise lots would never move up at all

I have people telling me I go novice we have easily surpassed the minimum three xc clear rounds at be100 but I dot think we are quite ready. A few more events yes but I plan to stick at e100 for a while longer for various reasons

 

[kirstyhen]

When I feel ready, as I am such a wimp it's likely to be months after the horse is actually ready although I am starting to mentally prepare for novice by walking the courses, show jumping bigger classes and thinking about finding harder BE100s - only because it will take a LOT of mental prep for me to actually feel ready, so if I start now, I should be looking at novice by 2021

 

[Harrie123]

I suppose there are quite a few factors that come into it. For me I had started thinking about doing a novice, seriously thinking about it. some of the factors that made my mind up...

I had two reputable instructors (one being my regular instructor) both registered with BE saying that I would be fine at novice.

I was getting inside/under the time XC without making it look hurried or unsafe. I was getting a good stride to every fence and moving away well.

I was jumping above the height at BSJA comfortably.

I was jumping more complex combinations at home or out schooling.

I walked some novice courses and felt the fences weren't beyond me.

Food for thought -hopefully? I really enjoyed my first novice, I felt very comfortable about doing it too, made all the more sweet by knowing that you have done everything in your power to prepare & get round.

 

[diggerbez]

When I feel ready, as I am such a wimp it's likely to be months after the horse is actually ready although I am starting to mentally prepare for novice by walking the courses, show jumping bigger classes and thinking about finding harder BE100s - only because it will take a LOT of mental prep for me to actually feel ready, so if I start now, I should be looking at novice by 2021

see you there

 

[star]

i think when the current level feels easy and the next level up makes you want to have a go, not terrifies the life out of you. My problem is that I love XC and hate SJ. I walk Novice XC courses and think we'd be fine but BE100 SJ scares me - completely irrational I know! Have competed BD Novice with him so not worried about dressage but I know he has only done up to 1.05m BSJA before I got him and I've not really done much over 1m so we're going to have to seriously crack the SJ before we ever make it to Novice. In the mean time we're having some confidence giving runs at 90 after a bit of a disastrous 2nd run at 100 end of last yr. Confidence is well and truly rebuilt now as he is flying but will just do a few more to make sure before trying some more 100's as is still not even a year since we did our first unaff 80.

 

[Mike007]

Star, you are good at the stressage stuff, and a comlete fruit loop cross country.(I have seen you drag hunting Its the showjumping you need to work on. If you are taking all the fast routes xc it is all well and good, but your type of horse tends to be good at that stuff (they get it from you). Your weakness will be the show jumping and you need to get that sorted before you move up. PS love to llewy

 

[diggerbez]

i think when the current level feels easy and the next level up makes you want to have a go, not terrifies the life out of you. My problem is that I love XC and hate SJ. I walk Novice XC courses and think we'd be fine but BE100 SJ scares me - completely irrational I know! Have competed BD Novice with him so not worried about dressage but I know he has only done up to 1.05m BSJA before I got him and I've not really done much over 1m so we're going to have to seriously crack the SJ before we ever make it to Novice. In the mean time we're having some confidence giving runs at 90 after a bit of a disastrous 2nd run at 100 end of last yr. Confidence is well and truly rebuilt now as he is flying but will just do a few more to make sure before trying some more 100's as is still not even a year since we did our first unaff 80.

you sound VERY similar to me star...i have walked a fair few N courses now and i think that mostly i'd be fine...but totally agree about the SJ being terrifying! FWIW i had a lesson with Jeanette Brakewell yesterday and she said that she doesn't like the SJing either...so its not just us

 

[diggerbez]

I suppose there are quite a few factors that come into it. For me I had started thinking about doing a novice, seriously thinking about it. some of the factors that made my mind up...

I had two reputable instructors (one being my regular instructor) both registered with BE saying that I would be fine at novice.

I was getting inside/under the time XC without making it look hurried or unsafe. I was getting a good stride to every fence and moving away well.

I was jumping above the height at BSJA comfortably.

I was jumping more complex combinations at home or out schooling.

I walked some novice courses and felt the fences weren't beyond me.

Food for thought -hopefully? I really enjoyed my first novice, I felt very comfortable about doing it too, made all the more sweet by knowing that you have done everything in your power to prepare & get round.

what a lovely story...i too would like to enjoy the experience rather than being terrified by the prospect

 

[diggerbez]

My basic move up is when the current level becomes easy.

For pure dressage I would want 65% minimum every time out for an absolute minimum of 5 outings. There are some exceptions ie some horse will do rubbish at prelim/novice due to their natural frame and dullness o the tests. Also eventers at the higher levels may do a higher dressage test than a pure dressage rider would to fit with their eventing level as well some eventers will never get 65% no matter how hard the rider tries

Showjumping I would want consistentt double clears with maybe the odd pole but basically double clears all the way.

Eventing again regular double clears or near double clears. Some eventers again just don't respect showjumps but as long as safe and consistently clear xc then yes to moving up as otherwise lots would never move up at all

I have people telling me I go novice we have easily surpassed the minimum three xc clear rounds at be100 but I dot think we are quite ready. A few more events yes but I plan to stick at e100 for a while longer for various reasons

i think that you are along similar lines to me SC...i was talking to someone yesterday and they have entered a novice despite consistently having run outs and lots of poles down at PN....

 

[Paris1]

BD, I affiliated when I consistently got placed well with over60%. I gave it a go on a class ticket first, and was pleasantly surprised by the results.

 

[kerilli]

what would you class as good percentages for dressage? mid 60s or super scores (70s plus?)... although i rarely get super scores i am always disappointed unless its 68% and above- dunno why i have that in my head as a 'good' score...

umm, depending on the horse's talent/movement (because if, like my lovely Canoodle for e.g., it has no natural movement or suspension at all, you are always going to have a real ceiling on your marks!) i'd want at least 64% upwards, 70s always nice... (i think she managed a 72ish% at Elem once) can't see the point of going up otherwise. would want to keep the horse's confidence too so it could shine more when it was ready, the harder tests throw a lot more at them faster etc, they can 'bottle it' in the dressage (i've seen this, former trainer had 1 off a 4* rider and its brain was blown for even a N test.)

re: PN to N step up, i really do think a lot of crap is talked about this being such a big step. on a good brave forward-thinking horse, you won't even notice it, honestly. i don't know why people exaggerate it, whether it's to enforce the invisible Pro-Am divide or something... but tbh Novice is small on a decent horse. (some of the old venues used to run A, I, N, PN courses parallel in places and at 1 each course had a table, all next to each other. that really put it in perspective for me, the N table looked tiny... and hundreds of thousands of horses can easily cope with Int and upwards size fences...) maybe it's because 1.10-1.15 is about the height at which you need to be seeing decent-ish distances, below that you can get away with it much more? to anyone going and whizzing round PNs easily i'd say go for it!

 

[Santa_Claus]

Personally I don't see the jump to novice as being any bigger than the jump to prenovice. My reason for taking my time is I haven't previously evented before Fleur I know she is capable but given her history I need to make sure she will be confident of all the questions she will be asked at novice before actually taking that step up and so doing it safely. To me height isn't the issue at all it's the technicality i.e. jumping into water! Plus would rather like to qualify for some things at PN level first which you cant once you have points and seeing as we have a fairly good strike rate at double clears I don't wish to risk it

 

[Saratoga]

For me it depends entirely on the horse. I have moved my eventer up a level when he hasn't been 100% consistent at the level below, but it's because he doesn't concentrate and there's nothing for me to really ride him to back him off, so I made the decision to move him up. Giving me something more decent to ride at, and get his attention actually helps, it's a lot easier to ride him to a bigger fence.

I had sort of the same with my dressage horse, he wasn't scoring fabulously at a lower level, but I was getting comments from judges such as 'showing too much collection' and it was almost as though they didn't know how to mark him as his way of going is quite advanced. So I moved him up a few levels and he is now being marked a lot more correctly IMO.

So horses for courses for me

 

[kerilli]

S_C, my post wasn't aimed at you at all, btw. I totally see where you're coming from there.

 

[FrodoBeutlin]

For dressage, as Saratoga says it depends a lot on the horse, the circumstances etc.

Very generally speaking, if I was getting scores in the 50s I'd definitely go down a level (this is assuming that the horse is allowed to - a horse like Frodo cannot compete affiliated below Medium in this country because of points). But then again there are exceptions, with Rauti I got a couple of sub-60 scores in Germany (where Elementary and Medium are the same level) because of one very specific problem that was marked so harshly there, but I never really considered competing at Novice, because there was no question he was more than ready for that level ---- we just worked to fix that one problem and the next show he scored 78% (which was probably a fluke and will never happen again, LOL, but still it proves that he was ready for it!).

 

[lex2501]

It's such a personal thing. For me, I take a huge amount of confidence from hearing my instructor say that she thinks we are more than capable of the step up. She knows me and my horses better than anyone, and she also has been there, done it and got the t-shirt having ridden at 4* and PSG. Sometimes we all put on either our rose-tinted spectacles, or carry irrational self doubt so I think some perspective from the right person is very important.
She mentioned the word "intermediate" yesterday and I laughed in her face Thank goodness I can use the "getting to grassroots with Billy" excuse

 

[Santa_Claus]

Don't worry didn't take it to be but thought would give my reasons for hanging round at the level a while longer

 

[Saratoga]

One thing I think is really worth mentioning is once you have moved up it doesn't mean you have to stay there! So many people I know say make the move from Novice to Intermediate and the first one goes well, so they stay at Intermediate and over the next couple of events they progressively get worse until the horse has majorly lost confidence. Nothing wrong with playing around with the levels, doing one event/test at a higher level, then dropping back down for a couple, then back up again etc.

It's less about the status/kudos of the level you are competing at, and so much more about the horse and what they are finding in front of them. And soooo many people I know seem to have a real issue with dropping back down a level for a confidence boost. It's not about failure, it's about being sensible with your horse!

 

[diggerbez]

re: PN to N step up, i really do think a lot of crap is talked about this being such a big step. on a good brave forward-thinking horse, you won't even notice it, honestly. i don't know why people exaggerate it, whether it's to enforce the invisible Pro-Am divide or something... but tbh Novice is small on a decent horse. (some of the old venues used to run A, I, N, PN courses parallel in places and at 1 each course had a table, all next to each other. that really put it in perspective for me, the N table looked tiny... and hundreds of thousands of horses can easily cope with Int and upwards size fences...) maybe it's because 1.10-1.15 is about the height at which you need to be seeing decent-ish distances, below that you can get away with it much more? to anyone going and whizzing round PNs easily i'd say go for it!

i am definitely having a huge mental barrier about the whole thing. i've easily jumped N XC and SJ at home/in training and yet the whole thought of doing it at a competition makes me feel physically sick and i know (because i know myself very well ) that i will come round to the first big oxer on the SJ and kick for the most ludicrous stride...even though i can do it at home no problem... i think its because i have never competed over PN level and never about 1.05 in SJ so i have this mental block...sure that once i have done it (I WILL do it- see positive thoughts ) then i will create the same mental block about the next step up?
My SJ trainer struggles to understand me i think...but then when you regularly jump 1.40s the difference between 1.00 and 1.10 must seem negligible...but when you have not done masses over 1.00 it seems a huge step to take?

 

[diggerbez]

For dressage, as Saratoga says it depends a lot on the horse, the circumstances etc.

Very generally speaking, if I was getting scores in the 50s I'd definitely go down a level (this is assuming that the horse is allowed to - a horse like Frodo cannot compete affiliated below Medium in this country because of points). But then again there are exceptions, with Rauti I got a couple of sub-60 scores in Germany (where Elementary and Medium are the same level) because of one very specific problem that was marked so harshly there, but I never really considered competing at Novice, because there was no question he was more than ready for that level ---- we just worked to fix that one problem and the next show he scored 78% (which was probably a fluke and will never happen again, LOL, but still it proves that he was ready for it!).

i think thats the thing isn't it- making a decision about whether its one small but important thing that needs fixing or whether its a lot of things that generally need improvement! 78% is rather impressive!