How do you lift the feet of a very stubborn pony?

[MrsElle]

Some days Fat Lad is great, just touch his leg and ask him to lift and he does so.

Other days he will lift and bite your bum.

Other days (most days) he will plant himself and absolutely refuse to lift feet up at all.

I have never met such a stubborn pony. I refuse to bribe him, as a friend suggested, as this will lead to me in effect rewarding his bad behaviour, but I am at a bit of a loss as to how to get the upper hand. It isn't just lifting up feet, he refused to load last week, falling asleep at the bottom of the ramp, and has been known to refuse to unload in the past.

Help!

 

[9tails]

For feet welded to the earth's core, I hold the leg at the fetlock and give them a big bump with my shoulder accompanied with "gerrup yer bugga".

Groundwork helps with a rope halter rather than a webbing one, they tend to cooperate better with rope halters.

 

[LaurenBay]

I will be watching this thread with keen interest as my mare is a bugger for this. My firend bought her in for me and Ruby picked up all 4 feet straight away. Vet came and said she is deffiently taking the mick! She nips me on the bum.

 

[SarahWeston]

There is usually a reason why a horse won't pick up his feet even if it is just the instinct of not giving their feet to a predator. Whatever the cause, and in this case I do wonder whether there is an element of intermittent pain especially coupled with the loading problem and the fact that sometimes bites when you do pick his foot up , the behaviour is then reinforced when it works. In fairness you need to address both sides of this equation. Carefully consider whether there could be a physical problem for instance, or even a problem with your technique, dare I say, and get this addressed. Then again, through technique start working on asking him to consistently pick up his feet. Open your mind to the possibility of clicker training for this task - it's not bribery, it's wages and see if that helps. I did similarly with a wafty Arab yesterday and within an hour she was happily offering me her feet.

 

[MrsElle]

I'm sorry Sarah, but your post did make me giggle. He is in no pain, he is just a typical stubborn as a mule Highland pony! He loads fine most of the time, we only have a problem when he can't be arsed, which is actually quite often

You can tell before hand if you are going to have trouble that day from his mood. Some days he is lovely and cuddly and happy, but most of the time you can see the evil glint in his eye as he prepares himself for the battle of wills that he currently knows he will undoubtedly win I swear Fat Lad has a smirk on his face on days like this, he loves the challenge!

 

[Laafet]

My old Irish horse was like this when I got him, although he would never bite. Tie him up so you have both hands free and use a lead rope placed between the fetlock and hoof to gain more leverage. Pull in a backward direction. Only place the rop around, don't tie it on and be careful it does not slip up the leg.
As for the planting when loading, I had this trouble too. It is a difficult one as both of my last two would plant and then drift off into their own world and ignore me. The main key is too keep their attention and move their feet about side to side. I have to admit to the usual lunge whip, brush up bum tricks, this didn't always work, lunge lines have never worked for me either. Reversing up the ramp has done but must be done carefully to prevent horse coming down on top of you. I did use a Dually on one and a Richard Maxwell headcollar on the other (Dually's had not been invented). I also carried a schooling whip to walk purposely upto the ramp with to try to stop the whole stopping thing. I cured the Irish horse by taking him hunting in the end, he then had a reason to go on as he loved Bloodhounding. The other one I bored to death loading for a whole morning, after that when he realised that I was not going to give up he just gave in (he was a Welsh D x and very opinionated).

 

[paddy555]

run your outside hand down the leg as if you were going to pick his foot up and with your inside hand twist the chestnut gently (or whatever pressure is needed) Then simply transfer the picked up foot to your inside hand.

 

[SavingGrace]

For feet welded to the earth's core, I hold the leg at the fetlock and give them a big bump with my shoulder accompanied with "gerrup yer bugga".

Groundwork helps with a rope halter rather than a webbing one, they tend to cooperate better with rope halters.

I do the same, use my shoulder or my bum though if needed I used both hands on her feathers to get it up x

 

[amandap]

You can tell before hand if you are going to have trouble that day from his mood. Some days he is lovely and cuddly and happy, but most of the time you can see the evil glint in his eye as he prepares himself for the battle of wills that he currently knows he will undoubtedly win I swear Fat Lad has a smirk on his face on days like this, he loves the challenge!

Well, why is he moody? Lets think about this... Why are you moody? Is it when you're stressed or sore somewhere or do you get an evil glint in your eye on 'those' days and plan to be awkward for the hell of it?

I'm sorry, but generally I don't believe horses get evil glints or refuse to cooperate for no reason or to be awkward or get one up on us. Horses live in the moment in general and react to how they are and how we are they don't plan and they don't get in 'moods' for no reason. The evil glint might be because you aren't listening to him or because he is sore. I have a horse who really gives me the eye if I'm not listening. The eye can also mean fear or worry but not ime bloody mindedness.

For a start if you can tell then he is telling you something. If not lifting his feet on those days is his pattern then I for one would look at soreness to start with. Plus, you see his demeanour and expect him not to cooperate on those days. He will pick up on your anticipation of resistance as well. You call him "fat lad" is he a bit over weight?

I agree with Sarah you need to look at all angles here especially with his demeanour being so marked. As for the hoof lifting make sure he is standing balanced so he can pick up his hoof. This doesn't mean standing square either. He needs his weight on the opposite diagonal from the hoof you want him to lift. Asking for a step back or forward will often free up a hoof. Try standing him on a softer surface and make sure it's not stoney. You need to go slow and reward his efforts as well as look at his diet and hoof health. for example has he got thrush or some hoof inflammation?

 

[youngfarmer]

I'm sorry Sarah, but your post did make me giggle. He is in no pain, he is just a typical stubborn as a mule Highland pony! He loads fine most of the time, we only have a problem when he can't be arsed, which is actually quite often

You can tell before hand if you are going to have trouble that day from his mood. Some days he is lovely and cuddly and happy, but most of the time you can see the evil glint in his eye as he prepares himself for the battle of wills that he currently knows he will undoubtedly win I swear Fat Lad has a smirk on his face on days like this, he loves the challenge!

There's the problem right there-he's a Highland

 

[MrsElle]

There's the problem right there-he's a Highland

Someone who understands!

He is not in pain, he has seen vet, had his back checked, teeth done, farrier been last week. He is really just stubborn. I had to laugh at the comment about making him take a step forward or back - there is absolutely no way he will step forward or backwards if he is in the mood to not pick up his feet.

I do wonder if those summising that Fat Lad is in pain have ever had the misfortune (or fortune, I quite like him for his quirks!) to deal with a truly stubborn pony?

BTW, he is somewhat overweight but on a strict diet. I have only had him a few weeks, so all work in progress

 

[Mad_Cow347]

I have a similar problem with mine.

Some days (not very often) he will simply let me do his back feet, no problems at all.

Other days he won't let me near his back feet, barging his bum about so I can't get near (I'm only 4"11) or trying to kick me when I do get near them.

Most of the time he will let me start picking them out and then decide he's fed up and will boot out half way through.

There is nothing wrong with him, he is simply being a little s**t, the farrier has no problems with him and he only occasionally decides to do this to my mum & sister. He knows that him kicking out makes me nervous so he takes full advantage of it but I don't really know what to do to get past my nerves and get him to behave for me!

Sorry for highjacking the thread. But thought while we are on the subject I would see if anyone had any ideas for me too?

 

[youngfarmer]

I do wonder if those summising that Fat Lad is in pain have ever had the misfortune (or fortune, I quite like him for his quirks!) to deal with a truly stubborn pony?

It's definitely a fortune-there's never a dull moment with a Highland around! The 1 that was at our yard is truely a character-would turn your back on him and another person for just 1 minute and the next thing you know there's a lot of screaming and someone flailing through the air on the end of a lead rope as he buggered off

I don't really have much advice to give though on the issue- as it could be for a number of reasons although if he does it occasionally and sometimes bites your bum, he could just be a cheeky pony! Ask someone else to do his feet (maybe the friend you had said picked them out before with no issues) and see how they go about the situation-body language, where they place themselves and their hand, voice, commands etc. Potentially it could be that he has been taught in a certain way and so is a little confused by you if there is any change in the way you are asking him each time. From the sounds of it-he's a Highland pony who, like the rest, is testing you out. Good luck

 

[Mad_Cow347]

I do wonder if those summising that Fat Lad is in pain have ever had the misfortune (or fortune, I quite like him for his quirks!) to deal with a truly stubborn pony?

I don't think they have. I know that a lot of the time there is an underlying issue but again there are also a lot of horses where there isn't they are simply b****y awkward! I wouldn't want a push button horse though... It's much more fun having one who has their moments!

 

[Faithkat]

Pinch the chestnut - never fails . . . . .

 

[SophieLouBee]

Agree with squeezing the chestnut. I've not yet met a horse that doesn't respond to that!

 

[amandap]

I do wonder if those summising that Fat Lad is in pain have ever had the misfortune (or fortune, I quite like him for his quirks!) to deal with a truly stubborn pony?

Hehe! That could be true of me but I don't call horses stubborn.
Sarah Weston works with difficult horses for a living so I guess she will have met one or two you would describe as stubborn. http://www.sarahweston.co.uk/

Good luck.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I normally pull their feathers, pinch their tendon in my fingers or tap the leg gently with the hoof pick, or squeeze his chesnuts one of these normally work

 

[forestfantasy]

From the sounds of it-he's a Highland pony who, like the rest, is testing you out. Good luck

Totally agree with this, especially since you've not had him long, if he got away with it once he'll try again!
Cheeky monkey - be firm and consistent and as others have said, pinch the chestnut!

 

[SarahWeston]

It's good that you have had him checked for pain as not everyone would in fact think of that. In that case it would seem to come down to technique then and finding some signal that clearly says to him, you must pick up your foot. Squeezing the chestnut often works well. I have had great success with combining good technique with clicker.

 

[Daisy2]

Well I have one of those too and my face comes up red and I'm out of breath so I learnt a little trick, I first ask, then if there is no response I tap (reasonably gentle/firm) the hoof pick on the soft bit at the back of heel where it goes in, this is obviously uncomfortable and so he lifts his feet and gets lots of praise, now we don't have a problem. Pinching the chesnut never worked for me, I understood why when the farrier hacked it off and he did'nt flinch

 

[Slinkyunicorn]

I had that when I first got the Coblet

As she was from a rescue so was very green and not used to daily handling at first it was a combination of not knowing what I wanted and then it became her just being a stubborn git

Pinching the chestnut of a cob just has no effect at all

I worked on her in a couple of ways -

I always picked her feet up in the same order - when she had lifted it up even for a millisecond - she got a treat being a smart arse she got the idea pretty quick so then I could pick up her feet and usually get flung around on the end of it as she waggled it about Anyhoo to get on top of this I got my farrier (who was very understanding) to show me different ways of picking her feet up and holding them. For the front legs put both hands behind the knee and pull forward. For hinds grab a handful of feather and pull backwards - both movements are as if you are stretching.

The treats stopped pretty swiftly and 10 years on I can't remember the last time it was a problem.

If he is a food motivated pony treats are the quickest way to be honest For what its worth mine don't get treats from one year to the next now - literally they get treats from the YO as a Christmas present

 

[Miss L Toe]

Well, why is he moody? Lets think about this... Why are you moody? Is it when you're stressed or sore somewhere or do you get an evil glint in your eye on 'those' days and plan to be awkward for the hell of it?

I'm sorry, but generally I don't believe horses get evil glints or refuse to cooperate for no reason or to be awkward or get one up on us. Horses live in the moment in general and react to how they are and how we are they don't plan and they don't get in 'moods' for no reason. The evil glint might be because you aren't listening to him or because he is sore. I have a horse who really gives me the eye if I'm not listening. The eye can also mean fear or worry but not ime bloody mindedness.

For a start if you can tell then he is telling you something. If not lifting his feet on those days is his pattern then I for one would look at soreness to start with. Plus, you see his demeanour and expect him not to cooperate on those days. He will pick up on your anticipation of resistance as well. You call him "fat lad" is he a bit over weight?

I agree with Sarah you need to look at all angles here especially with his demeanour being so marked. As for the hoof lifting make sure he is standing balanced so he can pick up his hoof. This doesn't mean standing square either. He needs his weight on the opposite diagonal from the hoof you want him to lift. Asking for a step back or forward will often free up a hoof. Try standing him on a softer surface and make sure it's not stoney. You need to go slow and reward his efforts as well as look at his diet and hoof health. for example has he got thrush or some hoof inflammation?

try a donkey!

 

[proctor]

Karate chop behind the knee hehe!!!

 

[paganamber]

I have an irish horse too. a six year old that has no manners at all. He is currently being taught his foal manners which is harder at 6 than a foal, trust me.

This cob is highlandish in that he has a leg at each corner and a tail at one end to let you know where it want's to be fed and he is built like arnie's big brother despite being 14.1

he will begrudgingly let you have his front feet but will happily swing his butt round and sit on you with his back ones.

Had horses of allsorts and worked in the industry for 49 years so still learning! He WILL do it eventually. I know it's going to take a long time as i have had him 4 weeks now and i can only just catch him in the stable without food (sometimes) lol. He is my project and it will take as long as it takes.

Will watch this thread with interest. Good luck and dont let the do good brigade bring you down.

 

[KVH]

Squeeze the chestnut. Good luck!

 

[MrsElle]

I will try all the aforementioned techniques and see what works

I love the stubborn sod to bits, his 'attitude' is what I like about him and as soon as he realises that I am even more stubborn than he is we will get on just fine. I can understand why he was sold on after being bought as a childs pony. Yes, height wise he is great for a child, but attitude and width mean he is definately an adults pony.

Tomorrow will of course be a day when he picks his feet up with just a word and and a gentle touch, I have no doubt that for several days after he will also pick his feet up just fine, as he does 50% of the time, just to lull me into a false sense of security