How does this saddle fit?

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123o123

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Following having a saddler fit a saddle which clearly didn't fit I have now progressed through a few more and now trying out a gfs saddle how does it fit? I know that there is more wither clearance than i would like but she is hard to fit, i have seen about 15 potential saddles. She goes absolutely lovely in this and adore the saddle. It is a 16.5" MW CC GP saddle.

This is pre being ridden and girth not tightened tight while ridden wither clearance is about an inch and a half maybe nearly 2.

Also would be looking into to get the jump version of this as more straight cut than i would have liked but fab saddle.

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I wouldn't like to say to be truthful, difficult to judge from photos. It LOOKS ok, but is that a wrinkle of skin just below the withers? Does it move when your horse moves, does it tip or rock when you sit in it ? Impossible to say without seeing the whole picture
 
Hi, it is going to be very difficult to judge how a saddle fits from a photo ,but as you have asked here is what i think.
Possibly this saddle is a little two narrow .I appreciate that it is new and therefore may sit a little high but it just dosn't look right. Also in the last pic it has been fitted too far forward.Your horse appears to have a very forward girth groove which may well encourage the saddle to sit there anyway ,but it really does seem too far up her shoulder.
Look from the front of the horse and see if the angle of the points of the tree are the same as the angle of her shoulder.I think that maybe they are not and this will cause pinching.Hence why i think it is too narrow? Also if you roll a small ball in the middle of the saddle it should find the center.In the pic it looks as though the lowest part of the center of the saddle will be too far back,suggesting that it is sitting too high.Your weight will be distributed mainly on the back of saddle.

Sorry probably not what you wanted to hear . Have a look at The Horse's Pain-Free Back and Saddle-Fit Book byJoyce Harman,this will help you in fitting a saddle correctly if you can not trust your saddle fitter.
 
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I think it's too narrow. You shouldn't need to girth up a well fitting saddle to make it "sink" onto the back, it sits there whether it's girthed up or not. It should NOT sink.
 
I would think its possibly a little narrow? Would also be worried by the wrinkled skin in the first pic and I agree that it needs to be sat further back on the horse. Good luck :)
 
smokey said:
I wouldn't like to say to be truthful, difficult to judge from photos. It LOOKS ok, but is that a wrinkle of skin just below the withers? Does it move when your horse moves, does it tip or rock when you sit in it ? Impossible to say without seeing the whole picture
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No definitely no wrinkles as i would be very worried if there was, that is her wispy hair which is always everywhere.

marlyclay said:
Hi, it is going to be very difficult to judge how a saddle fits from a photo ,but as you have asked here is what i think.
Possibly this saddle is a little two narrow .I appreciate that it is new and therefore may sit a little high but it just dosn't look right. Also in the last pic it has been fitted too far forward.Your horse appears to have a very forward girth groove which may well encourage the saddle to sit there anyway ,but it really does seem too far up her shoulder.
Sorry probably not what you wanted to hear . Have a look at The Horse's Pain-Free Back and Saddle-Fit Book byJoyce Harman,this will help you in fitting a saddle correctly if you can not trust your saddle fitter.
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I thought that as well in terms of forwardness post sitting and then riding in it though it did settle further back her girth grove is so far forward its making it so difficult to find a saddle and wasn't so high over the withers and didnt look so tight. i didnt take photos as was too dark.

9tails said:
I think it's too narrow. You shouldn't need to girth up a well fitting saddle to make it "sink" onto the back, it sits there whether it's girthed up or not. It should NOT sink.
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I know what you mean although wide is just too wide so having a massive issue, i think i need to try and settle the saddle further back and see if i can combat her girth groove.
 
If the saddle is already too narrow and you set it further back it's going to be even less of a fit than it currently is, perhaps go for a wide but have it reflocked or maybe you might have to accept that this saddle just isn't going to 'fit' your horse and continue your search. If I was you and I wanted that saddle, I'd do away with the idea of that one and go for a wider one, get a decent saddle fitter to come out and discuss the possibility of flocking the saddle to fit the horses shape.
 
It's not only too narrow, it's got too narrow a head: the panels are far too high and close to suit her wither profile. That's a highwithered TB-y saddle and she looks she's got like a native-type back. The base of her name obscures the veiw though. Shame as the rest of the panels look like they sit fairly well.
 
What breed and type is your horse? In my experience GFS saddles are great on tbs but not altogether successful on rounder native types. Have you tried an IDEAL, the trees they are built on seem to suit most breeds although still must be fitted of course.
As for your forward girth groove problem try using a stubben cord girth .I have had great success using one on a particular tricky shaped horse whos saddle used to move forwards.
 
She is a not hugely wide welsh type pony with not much wither shes 13.2 so struggling with second hand saddles as only got £400ish to spend and have been through literally every saddle in my area.

I also think its slightly narrower than it should be but wide is too wide so struggling with something in between.

Have been trying to locate a rope girth but 38inch is not easy to find and cannot afford everything new.

Have had saddler for the last saddle who fit a saddle which just didnt fit and no saddlers are about for a good 2 months who have saddles available so really dont know what to do as pony CANNOT be out of work.

Bear in mind this is a close contact saddle as said above so also cannot be reflocked as not flocked in first place.
 
123o123 said:
She is a not hugely wide welsh type pony with not much wither shes 13.2 so struggling with second hand saddles as only got £400ish to spend and have been through literally every saddle in my area.

I also think its slightly narrower than it should be but wide is too wide so struggling with something in between.

Have been trying to locate a rope girth but 38inch is not easy to find and cannot afford everything new.

Have had saddler for the last saddle who fit a saddle which just didnt fit and no saddlers are about for a good 2 months who have saddles available so really dont know what to do as pony CANNOT be out of work.

Bear in mind this is a close contact saddle as said above so also cannot be reflocked as not flocked in first place.
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I feel your pain!!Saddle fitting is a nightmare.
We had a 13.2hh welsh x similar to yours and i bought her an old IDEAL working hunter saddle off ebay for£130 a couple of years ago.Did the job nicely whilst we had her.You should be able to find a decent saddle for £400 .Can you take a template of her withers, back etc so that you have a rough guide as a starting point whilst you search for a saddle.
 
marlyclay said:
I feel your pain!!Saddle fitting is a nightmare.
We had a 13.2hh welsh x similar to yours and i bought her an old IDEAL working hunter saddle off ebay for£130 a couple of years ago.Did the job nicely whilst we had her.You should be able to find a decent saddle for £400 .Can you take a template of her withers, back etc so that you have a rough guide as a starting point whilst you search for a saddle.
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I have taken a very accurate template and shape of her back with me and came back with this one the person who i talked to is very knowledgable. I would preferably go with something like the gfs models as pony loves the saddle but just not quite right and MW is too narrow with wide being to wide in brands such as barnsby etc as have tried them.
 
If you can get hold of a bates elevator on her I find they sit really nicely, they also sit naturally further back on a horse giving excellent shoulder clearance, my mares girth grove is forward like yours but with the elevator it's done up about a handspan further back, sits nice and comfy, she floats underneath it and you have the added extra of the gullets being adjustable. If you can get hold of one to trial (possibly through a local saddler) then you can pick one up on eBay, that's where I got mine, they are normally over
1k new but I got mine for £500 there are also always a lot of online saddlers trading so you may be able to get one that way, I took a punt because I knew ebony went well in her wintec 2000 and it is the best saddle I've ever ridden in :D
 
marlyclay said:
What breed and type is your horse? In my experience GFS saddles are great on tbs but not altogether successful on rounder native types. Have you tried an IDEAL, the trees they are built on seem to suit most breeds although still must be fitted of course.
As for your forward girth groove problem try using a stubben cord girth .I have had great success using one on a particular tricky shaped horse whos saddle used to move forwards.
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Have to disagree with this, the GFS pony saddles are great on natives I've had 2 on my NF. I wonder if you need a wider fitting? I prefer to go wider anyway and use shims.
 
Op I understand your frustration but I can't believe you are considering a 'too narrow' saddle on the basis that a wide one is too wide, a saddle that is a little bit narrow will still cause muscle wastage to your horse and damage her back, that's what your £400 will be buying you. It's a real frustration but sit on your hands and say no to the saddle and just wait for the right one to come around. You'll be glad of it in the long run. Also, if you buy this then decide to sell when a saddle that fits properly comes around, you will get peanuts back (they are generally selling for under £200) at the moment.
 
xxMozlarxx said:
Have to disagree with this, the GFS pony saddles are great on natives I've had 2 on my NF. I wonder if you need a wider fitting? I prefer to go wider anyway and use shims.
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This is the fieldhouse pony saddle which ones have you tried as so difficult to find a saddle of even the right size disregarding width at the moment even with the buyers market. But good idea about going wider but then a problem i had with the wider is they are built for wide bodied ponys/horses which she isnt as quite a fine type.
 
Queenbee said:
Op I understand your frustration but I can't believe you are considering a 'too narrow' saddle on the basis that a wide one is too wide, a saddle that is a little bit narrow will still cause muscle wastage to your horse and damage her back, that's what your £400 will be buying you. It's a real frustration but sit on your hands and say no to the saddle and just wait for the right one to come around. You'll be glad of it in the long run. Also, if you buy this then decide to sell when a saddle that fits properly comes around, you will get peanuts back (they are generally selling for under £200) at the moment.
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Thats slightly harsh as the whole reason im changing saddles is my previous is too tight, but i know its slightly too narrow just struggling to think of where to go next as both of us love the saddle but i know long term it wont be great hence i asked for others opinions. Its the struggle with length at the moment as well as 16.5 seems elusive round here so not just width as currently looking at saddler's 40 miles away and cant get saddle fitter out for months :(
 
No not harsh, you asked for opinions. I gave mine, even if this is a less narrow fit than the previous one, it is infact too narrow and will do damage. No matter how comfy your horse feels now, this will very quickly become not the case (atrocious English!!). I did say that I understand your frustration but I do believe you will end up kicking yourself, what's a bit more time for a saddle that fits and won't cause damage? It's your hard earned cash and if you want THAT saddle, no opinion on here will alter your mind. I personally would wait but then I have seen muscle wastage and long term damage from I'll fitting saddles. I really think that if you wait it out you'll be glad you did. Perhaps post your location on here, I'm sure there will be some posters who know of other reputable saddlers who have stocks of saddles you could try sooner, also there may be a few online who are local to you and want to sell something that would be perfect for you and your mare.
 
Queenbee said:
No not harsh, you asked for opinions. I gave mine, even if this is a less narrow fit than the previous one, it is infact too narrow and will do damage. No matter how comfy your horse feels now, this will very quickly become not the case (atrocious English!!). I did say that I understand your frustration but I do believe you will end up kicking yourself, what's a bit more time for a saddle that fits and won't cause damage? It's your hard earned cash and if you want THAT saddle, no opinion on here will alter your mind. I personally would wait but then I have seen muscle wastage and long term damage from I'll fitting saddles. I really think that if you wait it out you'll be glad you did. Perhaps post your location on here, I'm sure there will be some posters who know of other reputable saddlers who have stocks of saddles you could try sooner, also there may be a few online who are local to you and want to sell something that would be perfect for you and your mare.
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As i said this is why i asked as i thought it was too narrow and as i dont have a saddler to hand ...., sadly we have noone on line near me and all the online retailers which send out have nothing suitable as need 16.5 w and im very particular about brand.

brighteyes said:
Wide and a prolite pad? *runs for cover*
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HAHAHA im thinking this but then i have the problem of that they are built for overall wide horses and this is the problem we had before, but thinking this is my only option at the moment unless there is a middle point between med wide and wide which im yet to find :P
 
I'd buy the ugliest saddle going if it was the only fit to my horse. I really would save your money, I assume that you want leather and not synthetic, which is why I suggested a bates, this will allow you quite a variation with regards to width, you also say that you are considering the jumping saddle which would obviously be more forward cut, they in turn sit farther back because of their design, which may mean you could get away with a wide in the jumping saddle, not ideal, but as you say you can not not ride her, it may be the way to go, buy the jumping saddle first (if the fit of that is better) and then look for a better fit for your daily saddle, at Least then you could continue to work her and as you say you are going to get a jumping saddle anyway. Just a note, both my saddles fit my mare, but my leather one is very forward cut, because this in turn sits further back her girth is ultimately done up further back, my mare has a forward girth grove as does yours and I find that the girth on the bates sits about a handspan behind where it does when she is in her wintec... The saddle still fits lovely infact the 'feel' and freedom of movement from her is amazing just from putting a different style saddle on her. Anyway my point is, more forward cut saddle=slightly further back girth=more comfy girth position for ned :D
 
I am going to stick my neck out and say it's not too narrow, the tree is the wrong shape. If you look at where the points are (hard to visualise) they look like they are probably parallel with the horse's ribcage. I would want to see it in the flesh, or a better photo showing more of the little pocket that the point is stitched into. It is very easy to see the front of a saddle looking like that and say it is too narrow.

The actual overall problem is that it is cantle low, and yes, the headof the tree ie pommel shape is too narrow, making it sit up high. But it is also too curvy which also makes it sit up high. If this was in balance, ie the deepest part of the seat was level with the ground instead of sloping backwards, I'd bet it would lift at the back, at the moment it can't as all your weight will be at the back of the saddle. Mind you, if you can see how scooped the seat is, no real flat spot, you'll start to see why it's a curvy tree. Natives, evern with withers, tend to need a flatter tree with a more open "sweet spot", the deepest part of the seat.

Most saddles will also look too narrow and cantle low when they are sitting too far forwards on the shoulder, but it is those issues that most commonly cause the saddle to move forwards - ie being slightly cantle low. Your weight is on the cantle, which means the contact at the front of the saddle lessens, and with many conformation types it will move forwards.

You need a flatter tree and panel, and with the right shaped tree (more open in the head) a point strap might really help with that forward girth groove, I use one on most natives and cobs. Some fitters don't like them but as I say, with the right shaped tree they are a blessing.
 
Sorry but it really does look too narrow. Put a rider on top, and that changes the stakes even more.

I have a GFS Genesis (not the same I know, lol) for Shy, and it's fantastic on a very wide wintec gullet. He was so hard to fit, my other saddle is a Barefoot, which I still use all the time, the GFS is for "serious" stuff.

Good luck, the right saddle IS out there :)
 
I'm not being funny but would amyone who says it is too narrow mind posting their assessment of how they decided this? Pommel high, too much clearance, is not the same as too narrow. I wish I could annotate photos and repost (no idea how to) then we could look at the point angles which is the only thing that is relevant when talking about correct tree width.

I specialise in fitting wide horses so I see a lot of saddles that are too narrow!
 
Saddles are made, so that when under the riders weight, the cantle sits 1.5" above the pommel. If you take another pic, with you seated on the saddle, but with an accurate side on shot, I'll bet that the cantle will be level with the pommel. Saddles are made around established tree sizes, and then flocked to accommodate the back of the horse, or at least they should be! As the width is determined by the distance between the points, re-flocking will achieve nothing.

Clearly that saddle is either to narrow, or your pony may be carrying a little excess weight, which is effectively the same thing. The saddle appears to be new, so if you have it on trial, the vendor may not be too keen on taking it back in a used condition.

In your shoes, I'd wait until the right fit can be found. As others have said, a saddle which is too wide can be raised, with pads, but a saddle which is too narrow would be an abomination, and it will also rotate, seating you too far back, with your legs in the wrong position.

I hope that you don't see this as harsh, it's an attempt at helping you! ;)

Alec.
 
sbloom said:
I'm not being funny but would amyone who says it is too narrow mind posting their assessment of how they decided this? Pommel high, too much clearance, is not the same as too narrow. I wish I could annotate photos and repost (no idea how to) then we could look at the point angles which is the only thing that is relevant when talking about correct tree width.

I specialise in fitting wide horses so I see a lot of saddles that are too narrow!
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I'm one of the guilty parties, so here's what made me think it looked too narrow. The pommel looks too high - and at that angle, looks as if it will push the rider to the back of the seat, which makes me think that the points are resting on the muscle, rather than fitting round the muscle - if that makes sense. Prepared to be told I'm wrong, as I am not a saddle fitter, and you are!

The pommel on my saddle (admittedly a dressage saddle) is also high, but the seat is more horizontal, which puts me in the middle of the seat.
 
Saddles can be pommel high for lots of reasons - imagine if you added another 1cm foam to the back of the saddle, that would make it in balance, but the tree would be the same width. This is why I am sometimes wary of the saddles with changeable headplates - an owner would think this is narrow, put in the wider gullet, see the saddle is in balance, and think all is well. Luckily the OP realised that the wider tree didn't work.

As I posted, yes, the rider will be on the cantle but that is purely about the fact it is cantle low.

I so often hear of horses in between width fittings and wonder if something else is the problem - tree shape, panel configuration. A British standard tree width actually has a 10 degree permitted variance, and flocking can easily make up for that. I will sometimes fit a tree that isn't an exact match for ribcage angle - a few degrees off can be acceptable, and might be preferred by the horse in some instances! Harder with a foam panel of course to adjust for minor variances in width!
 
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Our flat withered, med/wide 13.3hh Eriskay is suited by a 16.5" Thorowgood T4 cob saddle. The guy who fitted it was keener on the old style model, not the one currently stocked. Can you ride bareback til you have her sorted?
 
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