How does this saddle look?

[tonitot]

Just before I get jumped on, I will not ride in this saddle until a saddler checks it out and is happy with it, just thought I'd ask what you guys think of it

Here are a couple of pics, sorry they're not very good but it was starting to get dark...

And here are some videos of her being lunged in it, one on each rein ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rqUBCIt7xg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2E18KFOPwo&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Please ignore me speaking, I sound like a muppet Also she always trots round with her head stuck up, always has done but she's actually getting a bit better.

I think its too narrow but I'm not sure, I'm rubbish when it comes to saddle fitting. It's thrown me though as I thought it would be too wide, its a medium and I thought she was narrower than she is

Terrys Chocolate Orange on offer

 

[Sheep]

Your videos are private so can't see them!

 

[tonitot]

Hmm not sure why, will try to sort that out

 

[Miss L Toe]

I suspect when you sit it will come down on to spine

 

[tonitot]

Should work now

 

[tonitot]

Miss L Toe .. I guess that means you think it's too narrow? Or that the gullet isn't wide enough? Or would a wider saddle have a wider gullet ... Told you I'm rubbish with saddles I used to know but all the info has vacated my brain

 

[Fantasy_World]

it looks a little narrow to me also, especially where it sits just behind the withers. There doesn't seem much contact between on the panels just below the gullet and the area just behind her withers. I am no expert when it comes to saddles though.
OP is this one you have bought then and did you make any template or take any measurements before you got it?
I did a template on 2 of my horses and it did help immensely when looking for saddles.
Also don't believe that every medium saddle will be the same as every other medium. I found after buying a few saddles and then selling on again that there is much variation between wide and extra wide. Not had much experience with synthetic saddles as only use one of them on my mare. I do have one that used to fit my cob which I have saved as a lunging saddle for youngster if it fits him when he is old enough to break. Even if just to get him used to a saddle on his back I would rather him buck that one off and damage it than a recently bought one lol.
As you are getting a saddle fitter out anyway I am sure they will help you find a saddle that is suitable for her. One that has an interchangeable gullet are perhaps better if you are going to stick with synthetic as I think there is perhaps a little more give in leather ones regarding the panels and moulding to a horses shape. Although if there there are big margins in error to start with it won't matter how flexible a saddle is as the saddle will simply not fit if you get me.

 

[Wagtail]

The saddle is too narrow. You can tell that immediately by the way it sits lower at the back so the seat is not horizontal. The front view confirms this as there is a gap due to the tree sitting too high.

 

[Fantasy_World]

A wider saddle will have a wider gullet but not as high hence they are more suited to horses that are flat backed and wide. Whereas narrow saddles tend to have a narrow gullet but one which is higher and is more suited to horses which have high withers such as thoroughbred types.

 

[Wagtail]

A wider saddle will have a wider gullet but not as high hence they are more suited to horses that are flat backed and wide. Whereas narrow saddles tend to have a narrow gullet but one which is higher and is more suited to horses which have high withers such as thoroughbred types.

True, however, many thoroughbreds are quite wide. My current one is a medium wide and I have had one that was a wide. I have never had a horse that measured anything narrower than medium including all of the thoroughbreds. If a horse measures narrow, it is usually due to two possibilities: 1. They have muscle wastage (in which case they should be fitted with a wider tree but have the saddle padded out until they recover) or 2. The horse is a youngster and have not fully developed.

 

[sbloom]

I've posted on your other thread about the fit but I must correct a couple of things. Narrow trees are for narrow fitting horses, of which there are very few. Wide FLAT trees are for wide flat horses, wide horses with high withers can be found every where. And in fact many high withered horses are fitted with too narrow trees in order to get clearance.

You also cannot tell a saddle is too narrow just because it sits cantle low, or pommel high. The overall balance is from a combinaton of factors.

You can't tell clearance until there is a rider in the saddle - those gaps on either side of the wither are nothing to do with the width of the tree, they are purely about how the panel is attached, which I'm not keen on for this horse - that lack of contact could cause issues.

SO...first check the tree angles and how they lie against the shoulder. Interesting we have opinions that this is both too narrow and too wide! These actually look okay as far as I can see, so the tree is in the ball park. THEN check clearance. I don't think this will sit on the spine but the panel may not be deep enough, and it is the combination of the right tree width, then the right panel depth, that giives the correct clearance. And clearance does not have to be 3 fingers - 1.5 to 4 is the range that I fit within, give or take. Totally depends on the individual horse and tree/panel.

THEN check balance from front to back - this might be great in front but need a DEEPER PANEL at the back. This is why the adjustable width trees are not the solution to all saddle fitting ills - they don't change all aspects of what makes a saddle fit.

 

[tonitot]

I bought the saddle in the Tekna sale, I only got it today so could send it back and change for a medium wide before I get a saddler out if we think it wouldn't fit at all even if remoulded (apparently with these saddles they can heat up something and remould it)? She is a TB but has very low withers for a TB.

 

[sbloom]

I bought the saddle in the Tekna sale, I only got it today so could send it back and change for a medium wide before I get a saddler out if we think it wouldn't fit at all even if remoulded (apparently with these saddles they can heat up something and remould it)? She is a TB but has very low withers for a TB.

I don't think you'll need wider - you might need a deeper rear panel but really hard to say from those pics. See my post in the CR section.

 

[Wagtail]

I bought the saddle in the Tekna sale, I only got it today so could send it back and change for a medium wide before I get a saddler out if we think it wouldn't fit at all even if remoulded (apparently with these saddles they can heat up something and remould it)? She is a TB but has very low withers for a TB.

Your horse looks a medium wide to me. If you follow the angle of the tree and try to match it with the angle of her back, you will clearly see the angle of the saddle is much steeper so the tree itself is too narrow.

 

[sbloom]

This is a forward cut saddle and it is easy to be distracted by angle of the front edge which is coming forwards over the (wider) shoulder. If the tree angle is close to that of the front edge, as if it was straight cut, then it looks about right to me, barely a hair too narrow. The tree does go straight down, so is wider than that forward sloping front edge makes it look. If the tree pocket is the very white strip under the flap then it looks a little wide. So hard to tell from the pics. And bear in mind a well fitting tree can be within a variance of 10 degrees by British standards. It needs to be close, but some horses even prefer it to be "wrong"!

On the saddles I fit I test the tree width by pressing down on the pommel and running my hand from the top of the panel under the poimmel, down past the points - too narrow and the pressure is at the points, too wide and it is at the top. About right feels nice and smooth and even. I suspect it will be hard here because of the attachment of the panels - it might be hard to ascertain the pressure along the top edge.

 

[tristar]

the saddle does'nt look too bad when she's lunging girthed up, however most new saddles bed in, how much can depend on the type of stuffing, before sending it back talk to them and ask how high would they estimate it should be when new, to allow for it coming down and stuffing compressing during the riding in period of say, a few weeks.

you need to look at the front and the back clearance, sit on it, if poss to see if tips you forward or backwards, it looks like some kind of stuff that will mould to the horse, but i am not familiar with it.

ask other people who are there with you, its difficult on here

 

[Fantasy_World]

True, however, many thoroughbreds are quite wide. My current one is a medium wide and I have had one that was a wide. I have never had a horse that measured anything narrower than medium including all of the thoroughbreds. If a horse measures narrow, it is usually due to two possibilities: 1. They have muscle wastage (in which case they should be fitted with a wider tree but have the saddle padded out until they recover) or 2. The horse is a youngster and have not fully developed.

True in a lot of cases although my TB mare is in a medium I think from memory, or med to wide? My boys are all in extra wide and have low withers and virtually none.
I have known of horses being in narrow to medium, but I don't think you see many narrow saddles for sale nowadays except for the old leather ones on sites like ebay.
You can also of course get wider saddles with higher gullets as there is variation between both my extra wide saddles even though the space between the main panels when stretched out to max is almost the same.
There are a lot of people who sell saddles on ebay secondhand who do list incorrectly. Hence why I have bought some that have not fitted, because when actually measured they have not been wide or extra wide etc.
That is why I have mentioned doing a template, especially for anyone who is not that confident with saddle fits. Unless you have been around a lot of different horses or saddles for years, or seen many saddle fittings it can be hard to even the trained eye to see perfect fits in the flesh, when there are so many saddles and so many different fittings to choose from.
I know a template helped me because I was able to get measurements from it which I could then ask of sellers and when it came to selling any saddles on I was able to give as many measurements as possible without the person trying before buying.
It is hard to comment on saddle fit from a few photos though and like already mentioned a correct fit is normally judged when the person is sitting on the saddle, without a numnah and can use fingers to detect the size of spaces and fittings over the shoulder etc.

 

[tonitot]

Ah all this confuzzles me Would it be easier to judge if I girthed her up and took some better pictures? At the moment I'd like to know if it looks like it could fit or if I'd be better swapping it for a medium wide

 

[sbloom]

The thing that concerns me most is that panel attachment and potential front to back balance issues, neither of which would be cured by a different width tree. But I@m not your fitter, and we all do things differently!

Do girth up, and perhaps even sit in it and have pics taken, no pad or numnah. Girth up firmly and get a little further away for the shots from the front - get half the flap length in the shot.

 

[Wagtail]

I've posted on your other thread about the fit but I must correct a couple of things. Narrow trees are for narrow fitting horses, of which there are very few. Wide FLAT trees are for wide flat horses, wide horses with high withers can be found every where. And in fact many high withered horses are fitted with too narrow trees in order to get clearance.

You also cannot tell a saddle is too narrow just because it sits cantle low, or pommel high. The overall balance is from a combinaton of factors.

You can't tell clearance until there is a rider in the saddle - those gaps on either side of the wither are nothing to do with the width of the tree, they are purely about how the panel is attached, which I'm not keen on for this horse - that lack of contact could cause issues.

SO...first check the tree angles and how they lie against the shoulder. Interesting we have opinions that this is both too narrow and too wide! These actually look okay as far as I can see, so the tree is in the ball park. THEN check clearance. I don't think this will sit on the spine but the panel may not be deep enough, and it is the combination of the right tree width, then the right panel depth, that giives the correct clearance. And clearance does not have to be 3 fingers - 1.5 to 4 is the range that I fit within, give or take. Totally depends on the individual horse and tree/panel.

THEN check balance from front to back - this might be great in front but need a DEEPER PANEL at the back. This is why the adjustable width trees are not the solution to all saddle fitting ills - they don't change all aspects of what makes a saddle fit.

The saddle does look better on the videos girthed up though to my eyes still looks as though it would tip a rider back. I totally agree with your method of checking the fit of the saddle and suspect that with this one pictures could be misleading. However, taking the saddle away and just looking at the shape of the horse (as far as I can see) this horse looks a medium wide to me.

 

[tonitot]

At the moment I cant ride her or sit on her as I'm not allowed to ride at the moment due to injury and there isn't anyone in the yard who will ride her (most dont ride and others are nervous on horses other than their own)

 

[Wagtail]

Ah all this confuzzles me Would it be easier to judge if I girthed her up and took some better pictures? At the moment I'd like to know if it looks like it could fit or if I'd be better swapping it for a medium wide

It would be helpful if you could take the same pics girthed up and also of the horse without a saddle. One very good point about this saddle is that it does not appear to move much on her back.

 

[sbloom]

This could be a wide fitting medium....I haev to go on how the saddle looks on the horse. Even different models in one brand wiill fit differently in the "same" width. As I said, there is an acceptable variance of 10 degrees even in British standards, and I'm not sure these are made in Britain....they might be, I have no idea.

Also, I have many horses that I fit who trace as a certain width but actually need a fractionally narrower saddle as that flesh is soft - under points especially. The pressure test is SO important, and as we agreed, will be difficult with this saddle.

Edited to add - if you're not riding at the moment I'd not be buying a saddle, unless you can afford to take a hit financially. I know it was cheap - can you afford to lose however much you might if you have to sell it on after any returns period expires? You can't know whether YOU will like it, and it can't be fitted properly without it being ridden in.

 

[tonitot]

Okay, I will get some better pics tomorrow and might be naughty and have a sit on her to see how it feels though I'm not sure on that one yet

sbloom, I have responded to your reply on my other thread but I'm being thick and cant tell if you think it fits or not

Will also lunge her again without a saddlecloth to see if it moves then

 

[tonitot]

Just saw.your ETA bit .. I will be riding in a few weeks, had the money spare and thought I may as well buy it as it was cheap and I wasn't having any luck with eBay.