How illegal is it to be paid below minimum wage in this situation?

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ew96

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I'm 22, so minimum wage for my age is around £7.38 an hour. I've just started a job at a horse dealer's where I get paid a fixed amount of £20 to do the same amount of stables each time I'm there, then if I'm riding, I get paid £10 to ride each horse, even if it's just for 10 minutes, before people who come to view the horse get on. I saw the job advertised on Facebook as it being £20 for around two hours of work, but the woman who runs the yard was very aware that it takes much longer than two hours to begin with, but told me that it works out well when you get quicker.

It currently takes me around four hours to do the stables, then I normally ride one to three horses, so I'm probably there for around four to six hours each day. There was no contract or any formal agreement such as her asking for my national insurance number, and at the end of each week, she just asks me to send across how many jobs I did that week, so for example it would be like 'Monday- did yard jobs, rode two horses', rather than saying that on Monday, I worked X number of hours.

What is the appropriate thing to do in this situation and am I entitled to minimum wage? I did look into who is entitled to minimum wage earlier but I'm not sure if I am in this situation or not.
 
How many stables is it?

Sounds like you are being paid per item rather than time, as a contractor would. You need to ask if this is employment rather than self employed groom.

£20 for four hours, then £10 for 10 mins (or so) may even out the over all hourly rate. You said 1-3 rides, 4-6 hours total shift. So £20+£30 for 6 hours is £8.33 ph. Of course tax etc would come off that.
 
I think you are technically going to be classed as self employed by your employer who is likely to be running her business under the radar and probably pays no contributions or tax, you either need to get things on a formal basis, which will probably never happen, or go self employed and decide whether this job is worthwhile, it certainly isn't a full time job and you are taking a big risk by working there as you will probably not be covered by insurance if anything goes wrong.

It has nothing to do with minimum wage and is all about your legality of being there at all.
 
Is it cash in hand? Or do you get a pay slip etc. Sounds like she’s using you as a freelancer which means you are technically not employed by her but work for yourself at which point minimum wage doesn’t come in to it... but do keep records of what you earn because you may be asked to do a tax return by HMRC. Unless you have other work it’s unlikely that you will owe any tax but they can still ask for a return ...
 
I would also suggest that you are working asself-employed in which case you need to get yourself third party public liability insurance, accident insurance and permanent disability insurance cover. You also need to ask your employer to see their third party public liability insurance policy and their Health and Safety Policy. My advice would be to walk away and find yourself a job with a reputable and established employer.
 
OP, this sounds like the sort of job which brought in all the current legislation regarding wages, safety and conditions. Fine until something goes wrong. Unfortunately you need to get things onto a more formal basis, and at least check for insurances in place straight away. Agree with other replies. Good luck.
 
limestonelil said:
OP, this sounds like the sort of job which brought in all the current legislation regarding wages, safety and conditions. Fine until something goes wrong. Unfortunately you need to get things onto a more formal basis, and at least check for insurances in place straight away. Agree with other replies. Good luck.
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Edited
 
Goodness, most dealers are crooked - but that's taking crooked to a new level! Freelance means you are working for yourself, and you can choose when you work - hell, you could send someone else in on days you don't want to be there - or tell them: "I can't do Monday to Wednesday this week - tough!" Find yourself another job - then report this woman to ACAS - and anyone else you can find. https://www.gov.uk/pay-and-work-rights
 
ACAS have nothing to do with NMW enforcement. OP - in all probability you are being treated as self employed (rightly or wrongly). Probably the easiest thing - rather than writing you a long legal essay here - is to contact the British Grooms Association. The horseworld is rife with this because the on costs for formal employment (NMW, NI, Patroll costs and NEST) are so high. If you are content to be treated as self employed make sure you make the correct NI class 4 contributions. If you don't you will loose entitlement to benefits, including statutory sick pay. Class 4 contributions for a low waged self employed are not expensive. Others have also already mentioned the need to have correct insurance. You are not covered by employer's liabilty (as you are not employed). If you are not happy being treated as self employed you are probably going to need to get another job.
 
Is it cash in hand...…?

sounds like you are being treated as self employed, you need to get this established in writing, something which it sounds your current "employer" wont want to do.....

Unfortunately unless it suits you, subject to the fact if you really hurt yourself you will NOT have much comeback, you would be better to find a proper employer
 
I think this is far too common in the horse world. At a stables I was at a few years ago, the staff were paid below minimum wage and had asked politely for their entitlement. It wasn’t until someone had come in to look ‘at the books’ that this was rectified. The employer cried, some of the liveries picked on the staff for upsetting her. The outcome is their money didn't increase, their hours changed to include unpaid breaks in the day so they could tend to their own horses who were at grass livery. Outcome reliable and trustworthy staff moved on.
You still see adverts for working pupils, which is an anachronism!
 
Unless you want a reference I would contact HMCR. They are very strict about this. When you are self employed you manage your own work time, when its a 0 hours contract the have to do PAYE and NI when you work. I would be worried that they have proper employers insurance for you, if they have not paid you NI it will make it difficult if you are injured. You need a proper payslip, which you are entitled to
 
PeterNatt said:
I would also suggest that you are working asself-employed in which case you need to get yourself third party public liability insurance, accident insurance and permanent disability insurance cover. You also need to ask your employer to see their third party public liability insurance policy and their Health and Safety Policy. My advice would be to walk away and find yourself a job with a reputable and established employer.
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^^^^ this!!! I think OP you firstly need to protect yourself; and BHS Gold membership would be one thing (albeit the very minimum cover) I would advise you to get right now.
 
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The reason I mentioned Class 2 NI is because for 10 years, or so, it was my "specialist field". Determining whether somebody is employed or self-employed can be a complicated investigation.
Here the OP is paid by the tasks completed, it is a fee.
I suspect the stable owner is trying to abide by regulations which do not make them an employer. An HMRC investigation is time consuming as both parties have to be talked to before a ruling is made.
The question the OP needs to ask the owner is "Do you consider me to be your employee or as somebody who is Self-employed"? Either way take the conversation on to Xmas holidays. Propose either paid time off or double your fee depending on the answer.
If self-employed and the OP is happy to be so then start to record expenses such a getting to the premises and purchase/repair of work clothes but pay Class 2 NI, get accident insurance and try looking for other clients to help boost income.
 
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