How intelligent is a horse?

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Beatrice5

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A difficult one I know as all vary but I have just had a discussion with a friend down the yard about how intelligent a horse actually is.

I have always been told to think of them as a seven year old child and find that very useful. This lady said " No way horses are inherantly thick as why else would they let you ride them, you are a tiger on their back and they'd have to be pretty stupid to allow that!" I think they only let you ride them because you have formed a bond with them whereby they trust you and have an understanding that you won't hurt them and aren't going to eat them.

I spent 8 weeks working quietly with my mare to overcome her fears and win her trust before I got on her and otherwise there is no way I would have even contemplated it or felt safe. I also think she has a sense of direction and if we have done a ride in one direction knows where we are if another day we do it the other way round. My friend thinks horses have no sense of direction as they may spook one way around but not the other. If a horse naturally roams 30 miles then to me it would have a good sense of direction to know it's territory and where it can go. I think they build a map in their mind everytime you take them out and about just like we do.

I also think horses feel your energy and know when someone is happy or stressed etc So all in all without wishing to drag on I think a seven year old is a good analagy for their emotional and mental capacity what do you think?
 
You might find some of these interesting:

Books

She's as mad as a hatter I think but they're interesting reads (though, being a PhD scientist myself, I do think some of her methods are a little bit odd... she does tend to draw sweeping conclusions from studying just one animal
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). I've got the green one, Horsewatch. There's a lot in it about intelligence in horses, along with emotions, how they learn and so on.

The most interesting bit for me was the chapter about how they learn, esp. how they learn from other horses. She talks about a foal that was with its mother, who didn't like to be caught hence foal wouldn't be caught. When it was old enough, they put it with a group of other horses who were happy to be caught and foal quickly learnt to be caught. My horse was a bugger to catch when he was turned out with one particular horse in the summer - this horse was generally a bit of a thug, didn't like people, wouldnt' be caught. Mine used to copy him and was a thug too. He's now out with something else that adores people, comes to play when you poo pick, always comes to call and is a nice person. Within a couple of weeks, my horse had started coming to call, is much nicer to be around, comes for a fuss. I'm convinced that he watched his new fieldmate and realised that life is actually nicer when you get on with people!
 
I think that their ability to be trained, recognise and remember people and horses and hacking trails surely shows intelligence. I like the 7 year old analagy but I do have to say on another note- I think some horses are more intelligent then others, just like people!!!
 
I think it is difficult in many respects to make a direct comparison with humans.

Horses have very strong natural responses and superior skills in respect of scent, eyesight (in some cases) and hearing to us. Their flight instinct is ingrained. In those respects they are far superior to us.

Their understanding of logic and ability to predict outcomes of course is a long way below us which is where training, routine, boundaries and trust feature.

I would compare my yearling at the moment to a teenager in some respects. He is pushing boundaries and trying to exert his authority. Once he is mature I would consider him to be equal but different. His understanding will be different to mine but training will encourage compliance.

If you fall into the trap of regarding your horse as an eternal juvenile your horse will fulfil that image and not develop
 
I love the teenager bit as my 2 year old is nicknamed Kevin at the moment hehehe. A total drag on the lead rope when he has always lead well until this week and now is just pushing his boundaries little monkey.

I don't treat them as a child but similarly don't expect them to know what I am on about for example dressage movements so would take my time in building up to things quietly and trying different ways of approaching things until they can make sense of what I want. And No I am not doing dressage with Bea at the moment obviously but I refer back to previous horses.
 
I've always told people that horses have the intelligence, cunning and guile of a 5 year old child. They know full well when they are being naughtly, play simple tricks and jokes on us humans and are quite capable of working things out for themselves - if it suits them. Having said that though, I SWEAR geldings are proof of where men keep their brains as I have always found mares to be far more "intelligent" and on the ball than them. A bit too clever for their own good at times!
 
Horses, like humans, are totally different in terms of intelligence.

Zak is probably the brightest horse we owned. He is picky about his riders, he knows how he should be moving and gets annoyed when he can't, he THINKS he knows how to jump on his own (not quite there though!), he knows how to make people do things for him, and he knows how to make connections (ie if the horsebox is open, he'll load himself and wait for a show!)

Dorey on the other hand is definantly one of the less intelligent. She actually has a 3 second memory. And whilst this is fabbo when things go wrong (she'll forget it ever happened!) it sometimes makes teaching her to go right very frustrating (because she forgets that happened too!).
I spent hours training her to canter on the right leg one summer, as she favoured one over the other, just for a judge to get on her and have her favour her poor leg over the good one. There is just no explanation!
She also likes jangly noises so headshakes in a pelham because the chain sounds pretty *DOH!*
She has moments of brilliance though. Like how she can tell the difference between the warm up ring and the main ring, and how she loves being in the main ring so much, she wouldn't leave if you didn't make her! And we get airs above the ground if I don't let her into the main ring before her class!!!!

I'd certainly say 7yo is about right, Zak possibly even older!!

Oh, and tell your friend its not stupid to trust. I'd like to see her get a proper tiger on her horses back!!!
 
Yeah I do agree with not comparing horses to humans. I think sometimes we do put a lot of human emotions or characterisitcs on horses, when their thought processes are probably a lot more binary ie "food-nice" "running-nice" "water-nice" "vet-not nice" etc,
but sometimes it does seem that their thought processes are a lot more complicated! Plus I don't know how scientists can give horses an accurate IQ test anyway.
I think there were some tests done on african grey parrots which were supposed to have the mental capacity of a human 4 year old but think these were mainly spacial recognition tests.
It's an interesting topic though.
 
It's so true some horses although gorgeous are slightly more bimbo-ish then others. I think this applies to cats too, I love my mums cat but she's such a bimbo-gorgeous though!!
 
Daisy is the most intelligent horse I've ever met and anyone else that knows her well will tell you the same. She worked out how to undo the stable door even with the kickbolt down, she has climbed underneath electric fencing, she knows every single hacking route we do, she is very fast in training if its something she wants to do. One summer when she was lame I even taught her to fetch! My OH says she's like one of the velociraptors from Jurassic park, she will test for weakness and then take advantage as soon as she spies her chance.

I know I'm probably biased but I reckon natives and cross breeds are much more intelligent than highly bred horses. While I would never do it I reckon Daisy would be absolutely fine if you asked her to join some wild ponies out on a moor whereas I think plenty of other horses would stand there looking a little confused and wondering where dinner and their stable was.

I've met plenty of stupid horses in my time, just depends, they're like people really.
 
I just KNEW it would be Dr K-W ! I have so often heard similar opinions
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Knowing the lady personally, I would say that she does appear rather eccentric to some, but she knows what she's about and talks a huge amount of common sense. Incidentally, she was doing all the MR/Parelli stuff years, and YEARS before either of them showed up publically on the scene. I've seen her stallion following her around like a big dog, then another horse do high school movements with just a thread as reins.

I recall her racing horses at Larkhill and keeping them (stallion included) halterless, in a pen made from baler twine. That caused a bit of a "OMG! Crazy lady on the loose" moment from other racers. Whatever anybody thinks of her opinions and how she comes about them, anyone who trains horses to the standard she does has my admiration. Winner and Runner up in the AHS Marathon one year for a start.

Intelligence? Hmmm. I think the herd instinct overrides it at times. Intelligence comes in different shades of grey and varies hugely individually, eg : learned behaviour - I have a pony that will do many tricks of his own free will because he associates tricks with reward, or problem solving- I have one or two horses who will run a quarter mile up a field away from their buddies to go through the gate and get to them, and plenty of others that will either stay and have hysterics at the bottom of the field or try to go through the fence.
 
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I just KNEW it would be Dr K-W ! I have so often heard similar opinions
laugh.gif


Knowing the lady personally, I would say that she does appear rather eccentric to some, but she knows what she's about and talks a huge amount of common sense. Incidentally, she was doing all the MR/Parelli stuff years, and YEARS before either of them showed up publically on the scene. I've seen her stallion following her around like a big dog, then another horse do high school movements with just a thread as reins.

I recall her racing horses at Larkhill and keeping them (stallion included) halterless, in a pen made from baler twine. That caused a bit of a "OMG! Crazy lady on the loose" moment from other racers. Whatever anybody thinks of her opinions and how she comes about them, anyone who trains horses to the standard she does has my admiration. Winner and Runner up in the AHS Marathon one year for a start.


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Oh I agree completely! The books are really interesting and give you a lot to think about. I like the fact that she's so interested in the sort of behavioural work that is usually the territory of people like KM who don't compete their horses, yet she combines that with competing her horses to a v high level. There's a great photo of her teaching piaffe in the book by getting the horse to copy her movements I think...

I still maintain that she comes across as mad as a hatter
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but the books have really given me something to think about and made me reconsider how my horse is managed and treated. She talks a lot of sense I think and recommend the books.
 
Well I have just bought the book for myself for Christmas. Hubby can wrap it at least it's something I want hehehe !

Mares in my opinion definately have more brains than the Geldings as with all species lol x The cat has even lost his intelligence since his snip !!
 
I don't know that I agree re. mares and geldings. My Welsh D gelding was the most intelligent horse I've ever know, far too clever and cunning for his own good! I definitely think natives are v intelligent compared to other breeds, quite wily and v quick. My old mare was clever but she was also incredibly stubborn and would sulk like no horse I've ever known. I actually think my current horse, gelding, is probably more intelligent than she was because he's so much more spooky - I read somewhere that spooky horses are intelligent because they notice things. She was never spooky, once she trusted you, she would do everything you asked unquestionably.
 
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I actually think my current horse, gelding, is probably more intelligent than she was because he's so much more spooky - I read somewhere that spooky horses are intelligent because they notice things.

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I'm with you on that one. Daisy can be a little spooky but it also means that she's thinking about where she's going and she's really good at getting herself out of trouble. Give me a spooky horse over one that gives blind trust any day.
 
Some are clever, some are thick, but they think like horses, not like people so they don't reason the same way we do. Horses do things that to us are bl**dy stupid, but that doesn't actually make them stupid, they just see the world differently to us, IMO.
 
Hovis is smart theres no doubt about it but how "intelligent" he is i know not. He certainly picks things up quickly when he wants to and has an insatiable desire to see how things work, nosey into new things etc. He also knows how to push his boundaries constantly - i have to stop myself from finding him hilariously funny and actually stop him doing things he's not supposed to.
Omar on the other hand is thick - gorgeous but thick. I gave him hovis' treat ball one day and he stood and looked at it. He knew there were treats in it but couldn't figure it out for love nor money. All stunning looks and nothing between his ears!
 
I read once that they not particularly intelligent when it comes to problem solving, but more so with sensing emotions.

I think my lad is pretty smart and he's very keen to try and communicate. One example, on the rare occasion that YO is up before me to feed the full liveries, all the diy horses will stare longingly at her as she walks past laden with feed buckets, whereas mine will get his empty feed bucket and throw it at her as she walks past!
 
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