How little turnout can they live with?

[UKa]

Hi, the weather is leaving us in the terrible position that turnout is currently only happening if we are lucky a few hours here or there as our fields are practically like little lakes - and with no seasonal grazing rotation we would just turn them into mud baths if we turned out in this so they are in a lot. Now mine goes in the walker am and pm while I am doing my jobs if they are in and gets ridden in the school for about 30mins on weekdays and up to 1.5 hrs on weekend days. Is that anywhere near enough exercise? am worried as weather appears to be with us for a while and no chance of fields drying up anytime soon...

 

[AmyMay]

Sacrifice the fields? I'm always amazed at how they recover with good management


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[the watcher]

In reality it depends on what you expect to be doing if it competes and the level of fitness you want to maintain.

there are some places in the world where turnout is virtually out of the question for several months of the year owing to extreme weather conditions, but horses still survive and even hunters here traditionally spent the winters in their stable apart from exercise and working.

 

[Suzie86]

you're doing the best you can and short term its not going to do them any harm. when i had my horse on livery at college we had no turnout whatsoever for 3 months. luckily the facilities were fab and he was stabled on campus where i lived so i could spend plenty of time there. He went on the horsewalker or loose schooled with his mate in the big indoor so they could roll and play, then every pm i would ride and lead him out for hand grazing. He was very lively to ride during this time and got a bit grumpy biting over the door, and in the third winter of this in a row i decided enough was enough and moved him to a local yard.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

none.
its not ideal but most horses in germany and holland in particular, never go out and seem perfectly happy.
if you have access to a walker and can ride every day, i think they'll survive fine.

 

[Lollii]

I am turning out in one paddock that is now half a mud bath, I turn out two at a time for an hour or so, that is about the best I can do at the mo.

Some of the horses don't get ridden everyday as their owners work full time so this little bit of mud time and a half hour in the sand school is all they get and they seem ok.

 

[Kenzo]

I'd rather have mud bath fields with ample hay in, than have them being stabled all the time if it was my own land but then I guess we can't all make those decissions unless your the YO, I know our YO would rather his fields get messy than have them all in, he wouldnt be able to cope with all the mucking out and emptying the muck heap every day

 

[251libby]

ours are going out in the muddy paddocks and last year the fields compleatly recovered by march, my horse would rather be out

 

[luciesvibova]

I think if he is going on walker 2x day. He should be fine with no turn out or just two hr will be fine. How old is your horse? But you must make sure he gets the right food so he doesnt go wild when you ride him. My horse goes like this fine.

 

[jenmac_85]

Our lot are are currently getting 2 hours a day.

THey are happy enough to come in and get haylage.

They all live out during the summer, but like their beds in the winter.

 

[jeanette0403]

I have my 2 in most days as they have both been a bit poorly and really dont mind staying in. At weekends i turn them out for a few hours but would rather they stay warm in their stable with hay than in the mug standing round the gate getting grumpy.

 

[GermanyJo]

[ QUOTE ]
its not ideal but most horses in germany and holland in particular, never go out and seem perfectly happy.


[/ QUOTE ]

Not really fair to say... last winter we had 3 months with no turn out... when we do have turn out, they are in very small fields and for max 2 hours a day.... I insist that mine goes out as often as is allowed, he gets out twice if I can manage it on weekend days and he gets ridden every day... but there are some very unhappy horses on our yard, and I see the same in other yards around which have similar policies...

what I find sad is that there are also some horses who have spent so much of their life in, that they are more or less agrophobic (sp?) .. you let them out and after 5 mins they are going mad wanting to come in... not what I call happy or normal.

 

[PeterNatt]

Ther are many inner city horses that do not have any turn out but they are hacked out each day for several hours a day. However keeping a horse in without hacking it out each day could be considered a welfare issue.

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
what I find sad is that there are also some horses who have spent so much of their life in, that they are more or less agrophobic (sp?) .. you let them out and after 5 mins they are going mad wanting to come in... not what I call happy or normal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, a friend brought a horse over from Germany a few years ago, and had real problems socialising it.


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[Chico Mio]

Mine are out in a quagmire of a muddy paddock with hay for as long as the weather will allow each day. At least four hours and up to eight. They are not being ridden at the moment, what with one thing and another so the longer they are out the better
In the south many horses never go out except to be ridden. My FB spent at least six years of his life almost totally box kept before I bought him.

 

[tasteofchristmaschaos]

Personally, I wouldn't do less than 8 hour turnout per day absolute minimum, unless it was for boxrest. But my boy, and all my horses previously, have lived out 24/7, 365 days of the year. My horse hates being stabled, he has previously taken a door off the stable by the hinges as he didn't like being in for a couple of hours!

 

[KIMBY]

Ours are out for a few hours each day and we find once it starts to go dark about 4.00pm they are ready to come in and snuggle down for the night. At the beginning of the week the heavy rain kept them in all day munching hay and seem no worse for it. You have to take each day as it comes at the mo with the awful rain and wind , oh for spring and light nights.
You are doing your best for them

 

[4leggedfurries]

Mine at the moment are out from 5.45am (after brekkie) to 5.15pm monday to thursday and come in a bit earlier friday to sunday as i finish early on a friday. Tbh it is turning into a mudbath, but given that my dad is going into hospital next week and will be out of action for 6 weeks min their having to get used to staying out late. He would normally bring them in before dark for me. I do know though that in winter the boys would happily be in all day with a quick mooch on the yard whilst being mucked out as they hate the bad weather, they spend most of the day at the gate waiting to come in. Each horse is different so only you can judge if he's happy or not.

 

[Jojo_Pea4]

Mine are out 9am-4pm the fields are a little wet but are on a slope so not flooded. If its really wet then they come in earlier or if its pouring down they stay in for the odd day which they all seem happy for

 

[TGM]

Given that a horse naturally is an animal that is almost constantly moving in the wild, I don't think it is healthy for them to be closely confined for long periods of time, even if some seem to cope with it mentally. If grass turnout isn't available, and the horse is confined to a standard 12'x12' stable then I think at least two hours exercise of some sort is the minimum I would contemplate - this can be ridden, loose-schooling, turnout in an arena, horse-walker, walking/grazing in hand etc.

Personally, however, mine are usually out most of the day even if the weather is wet.

 

[Chavhorse]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
its not ideal but most horses in germany and holland in particular, never go out and seem perfectly happy.


[/ QUOTE ]

what I find sad is that there are also some horses who have spent so much of their life in, that they are more or less agrophobic (sp?) .. you let them out and after 5 mins they are going mad wanting to come in... not what I call happy or normal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes indeed since living in Holland I have never seen so many screwed up horses or supposedly "he is mad i can't ride him outside" horses in my life.

The day when we start looking at Holland as a good example of how to keep a horse will be a sad one. I came here expecting perfection and found that my old tatty yard in Cyprus had far happier healthier horses.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

[ QUOTE ]
Given that a horse naturally is an animal that is almost constantly moving in the wild, I don't think it is healthy for them to be closely confined for long periods of time, even if some seem to cope with it mentally. If grass turnout isn't available, and the horse is confined to a standard 12'x12' stable then I think at least two hours exercise of some sort is the minimum I would contemplate - this can be ridden, loose-schooling, turnout in an arena, horse-walker, walking/grazing in hand etc.

Personally, however, mine are usually out most of the day even if the weather is wet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto ^^^^^^^^^
But the thing that worries me is the amount of communication they can have with other equines. I would prefer horses that are kept in for all/most of the day to be kept in a yard system with others or at the very least be able to touch neighbours over the wall on either side. I think that keeping a horse in a solid-sided 12x12 stable with no physical contact with other horses is downright cruel.

 

[tabithakat64]

[ QUOTE ]
Given that a horse naturally is an animal that is almost constantly moving in the wild, I don't think it is healthy for them to be closely confined for long periods of time, even if some seem to cope with it mentally. If grass turnout isn't available, and the horse is confined to a standard 12'x12' stable then I think at least two hours exercise of some sort is the minimum I would contemplate - this can be ridden, loose-schooling, turnout in an arena, horse-walker, walking/grazing in hand etc.

Personally, however, mine are usually out most of the day even if the weather is wet.

[/ QUOTE ]

What she said.

 

[minesadouble]

There is one yard local to me where the horses come in for the winter in November and don't go out until the following May! They don't seem to suffer any ill effects though personally I wouldn't keep a horse like this.
As far as limited turnout goes I think it all depends on the individual horse how well they cope. Ours go out every day but some stay out for about 8 hours while we have one who only gets an hour a day turnout as well as being ridden. Primarily because he tends to get into trouble if he stays out any longer! He seems to thrive on this, if the weather is bad you virtually have to drag him down the yard as he cannot bear the rain!
If your horses seem physically and mentally healthy and happy I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

 

[popsicle]

It really worries me when i think of horses stabled (caged) 24/7. In prisons only hardened criminals are confined 24/7. IMO it is nothing short of cruel to keep horses confined in this way.

I would not consider keeping my horses anywhere where they could not get at least 4 hours turnout a day. We are lucky enough to decide when to bring ours in and we only do that if the weather is severe. In my experience horses stable for long periods develop vices and are bad tempered, which all points to mental suffering in my book

 

[Mabel98]

Don't feel guilty, you are doing the best you can. In an ideal world yes all horses should live out 24/7 but we don't have the facilities mostly to do this so we have to make do. If they have company and contact with other horses, they do get used to being in.
I spent a year in Germany ages ago and couldn't believe that even in the summer, the horses hardly went out. Having said that, they all seemed very chilled even though they went from stable to indoor school every day and rarely saw daylight. Not good but better than being neglected.

 

[Erehwemos]

QR

I am obviously a very cruel individual, given some of the replies here!

My mare is currently in 24/7 for three or four days a week. This is partly due to horrendous weather, partly due to the fact that I arrive too early and get back from work too late to turn out/bring in (she needs another horse in the fields around her for company), and partly due to the fact that after a couple of hours out, she tends to decide she has had enough and starts galloping around

And what with her having had the last three months off, I could do without another injury in the field caused by her throwing herself around!

She is a horse who seems to 'like' being in her box - other liveries have commented on how happy she seems being in. I'm back from work so late at the moment that there is often little chance to ride, so in order to stretch her legs we go for a moonlit walk round the yard/up the track for 10 mins at each end of the day. She seems happy enough!

I think the answer to the OP's question is really that it varies from horse to horse. I consider myself lucky that I have a horse who is happy being stabled and who does not go stir crazy when she doesnt get to go out in the field, but I know plenty who are the opposite!

 

[daisybe33]

I must be worse then, we have no turnout Nov to May!!

All horses are exercised daily, turned out in the arena in pairs or threes as long as possible and happy for it. I have two three year olds in who are quite happy and calm too. I do make sure they get contact with each other for a good scratch or bit of "face games" as two of the geldings like to play. I have worked in yards all my life where they have little or no turnout so whilst I agree it is not ideal I don't find it cruel as long as they are managed correctly and all their needs including social are catered for

 

[mrdarcy]

Living in Lancashire where 90% of livery yards have no winter turnout I've had to suffer the Nov-May no turnout situation in the past. Yes most horses seem to cope but aren't we lucky that horses are such generous and tolerant creatures? And don't we human being take advantage of that. However look how many horses crib, or weave or box walk or have various other behavioural issues. Some horses just withdraw into themselves which is perhaps even worse. Then there are the horses that people say are sharp or naughty and blame the horse rather than the conditions they keep them in.

Basically how would you like to be locked on your own, in your bathroom for 20+ hours in a day?

Back when I was a kid there were huge debates about the welfare of zoo animals. Back then zoo cages were small, concrete boxes. Then people started to realise that this was causing the animals unnecessary stress. Zoos either closed down or made their cages into enclosures that were much bigger and more closely resembled their natural habitat. Would anyone in this day and age visit one of those old fashioned zoos? We'd be horrified. Yet we still lock our horses into tiny boxes, prevent them from interacting with their herd and tell ourselves that they are quite happy. If a horse is happier in his stable then stable doors would be unnecessary.

On top of mental health issues there are huge physiological issues too. The horses digestive, cirulatory and lymphatic systems are all designed to work with almost constant movement. None can work properly when the horse is stuck inside a 12x12 box for the vast majority of the day. The consequences - colic, gastric ulcers, lack of circulation to the feet resulting in navicular syndrome, muscle wastage, reduction of bone density, reduction in tendon and ligament strength etc etc. Even worse is that when the stabled horse does get some turnout he will almost always explode with all his excess energy with huge risk of injuring himself. Then the vicious circle starts with people refusing to turn their horses out because they'll injure themselves.

People on livery yards that restrict turnout do have my greatest sympathy. Sometimes it's impossible to find a yard with turnout (and by turnout I mean field or yard or school - anything that allows them unrestricted movement with other horses). But keep looking and keep nagging at your YOs. If enough people demand it then eventually YOs may listen.

 

[little_flea]

My horse is clearly a cruelty case as well then. I am not really sure why people here are so quick to judge any reduced turnout is cruel... Our yard is in a valley, on clay, and this has been the wettest November in history - the fields are under water and it is pretty dangerous to turn out at the moment. If the conditions are ok they are out for 2-3 hours a day 4 days a week during winter. My horse goes on the walker every day, is walked in-hand, worked daily with long hacks at the weekend.

I know this is not ideal - I too would prefer rolling green fields with unlimited grazing all year round, but I just can't get that, so have had to compromise. Maybe i shouldn't have horses?