How long can a horse survive trapped in thicket

[KrujaaLass]

Goldenstar Many of the horses have spent the majority if their lives there. They have almost without exception lived into their thirties. One their now is 37. My pony was 36. The mum to the Hackney was 32 without illness or accidents. I have a 25 and 22 year old. Do yours live that long. What do you suggest we do cull all horses in substandard livery? I have spent hours and money post and railing my paddocks. Why don't you give it a rest now and go do your horses. That's what I am going to

 

[Goldenstar]

Under the law as it stands the YO would have joint responsibility under a duty of care something a lot of YOs
conveniently forget about or are unaware of.

They do but without licensing there's no sanction unless your in a prosecution situation .
ATM anyone can run a livery no matter how inadequate the land how poor the fencing .
In well run DIY yards the owners have a eye on what's going on and I think this includes checking the fields if you have many horses living out in different ownership
You just have look at the threads on here to see there's a huge number of badly managed yards out there .

 

[popsdosh]

They do but without licensing there's no sanction unless your in a prosecution situation .
ATM anyone can run a livery no matter how inadequate the land how poor the fencing .
In well run DIY yards the owners have a eye on what's going on and I think this includes checking the fields if you have many horses living out in different ownership
You just have look at the threads on here to see there's a huge number of badly managed yards out there .

You could argue this maybe a case where a prosecution would be an option if the right people involved.

 

[ester]

I don't really see what the age of the majority of horses living there reach has to do with it? Just because they aren't dying left right and centre doesn't mean nothing is suffering as in this case.

It just seems to me that most sheep have more protection under law for compulsory checking than horses and that seems wrong, equally it is a shame that after such an event no one on the yard would be receptive to being a bit more communicative and proactive in future so it didn't happen again or to their horse. Would you really be told where to go if you had said 'look we really don't want this happening, we could lose the horse next time is there something we can do about it?' That is what shocks me more than anything that after this happening nothing will change or stop exactly the same or similar happening again. Stuff happens, but most would then react to try and and stop it recurring.

I am also a happy hacker with no transport, I think you will find a lot of people on this thread are.

 

[ester]

You could argue this maybe a case where a prosecution would be an option if the right people involved.

Am I remembering correctly about the bay horse that got brought out of field for 'treatment' by a 'YO' and died after colicing for some days. Someone who had a dog cruelty case against them too I'm sure that was a failure to provide care (think absent owner) on the YO, I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Goldenstar]

You could argue this maybe a case where a prosecution would be an option if the right people involved.

But for what ?
In the owners case for being ill and forgetting to make an arrangement
For running a buisness without a system and with poor fences ( assuming the horse did not jump into the thicket ) it is unlawful to keep a horse in an inadequate way but the burden of proof is pretty high in a prosecution.
I don't think the current law as it is framed is designed to cover livery yards providing inadequate conditions that people are happily paying for the burden of the bulk reasonability for care must stay with owner but that is an interesting thought .
Instead of an expensive licensing system the law could cover livery owners providing inadequate conditions to keep horses in a good state .
Then someone would have to be prepared to put time and money into prosecuting some inadequate yard owners and building up some case law .
Financial penalties would be a apporiate sanction along with bans from running buisinesses in the sector .
POD that's a very thought provoking idea .

 

[Goldenstar]

Am I remembering correctly about the bay horse that got brought out of field for 'treatment' by a 'YO' and died after colicing for some days. Someone who had a dog cruelty case against them too I'm sure that was a failure to provide care (think absent owner) on the YO, I'll see if I can find it.

That's right but that was blantant case of cruel treatment outside the law on many levels .
You need something that will improve things before terrible things happen .

 

[WandaMare]

Another angle to this discussion is that there are also owners that rely too heavily on kind-hearted and responsible neighbours to keep an eye out for their horse, as a way of reducing their own costs and responsibility of horse ownership. There are 5 horse owners near me who have bought separate paddocks, where there are no houses within a couple of miles, and regularly text me, as the closest house nearby, saying could I keep an eye on out, there is a suspicious van parked near their land, could I watch out for it coming again etc etc and while I don't mind helping people and I do care about their animals, I do get a bit fed up of being pestered by them. I would never keep my animals somewhere so insecure. Other non-horsey neighbours get really fed up of them trying to offload on them when they never offer anything back in return.

I have always paid for livery or kept mine at home with regular checks so is it really fair to expect me to drive down the lanes at night to check on their horses when they chose to buy land in the middle of nowhere? There horses are completely unprotected in terms of being attacked or let out by criminally minded people. Perhaps there should also be more legal protection for horses relating to being homed somewhere with appropriate security. There are 2 horses in a field just beyond my property at the moment who have been dumped there for winter grazing by some local breeders, who have a bigger yard and fields about 4 miles away. They bought this paddock as extra grazing and occasionally dump a few horses there and take them back a few months later. I have regularly had to free them from getting tied up in rugs, taken water to them when none has been provided, separated a mare and foal from other young mares when one of them had the foal early and the owners didn't notice for 2 days. When they did they didn't even acknowledge my help or say thank you. I notified various welfare places and all of them said there was nothing they could do because the horses had grass and looked relatively healthy. I realise this is quite an extreme case but you can't really go round blaming anyone except the owners in my opinion, their horses, their responsibility.

 

[KrujaaLass]

Ester . The point I am making is that these horses to have reached these ages must have been well cared for to the end of their lives. None have suffered. Just unfortunate that a pony got caught up. Ones that have gone to pastures new on managed yards have died of colic and laminitis.You have no need to worry any more about the horses. They have gone. If this episode bothers you so much I will get references for the lady who is looking out for them.
Goldenstar. Let's hope she is more capable than me. As you thought I was not the right person to check other people's horses.
Popsdosh. Shall I expect a knock on my door from the Horse and Hound forum persecution police. I didn't think it would be long before you put your penny worth in.

 

[ester]

Plenty of not that well cared for horses reach old age too, that was my point, the age a horse reaches does not automatically indicate good care and no suffering for the whole of it's life.
Did you see carrot and spud on here, they were old, lived to be old and suffered a lot, having horses live to their 30s means not a lot.

Can you respond to this bit that I posted?
'Would you really be told where to go if you had said 'look we really don't want this happening, we could lose the horse next time is there something we can do about it?'

It seems more than 'just unfortunate' that a pony got caught up it seems like a situation waiting to happen from what you have described in this thread, it could just as easily be one colicing in behind the hill etc etc. I find the fact that everyone (by that I mean the rest of the yard) is happy to carry on as if it definitely won't happen again when nothing has been put in place to stop a similar situation occurring.

 

[KrujaaLass]

Who is to know what I would be told. I am not taking any chances. You can put as many rules and regulations into place as you like but people have got to comply with them. I am not responsible for actions of other people, what they do or don't do. I cannot force someone to check their horse everyday. If they want to do it they will. As for one colicking behind the hill am I now expected to do 24 hour stake out. No ones ever colicked in the field but bet your life they have standing in a stable In a yard with plenty of people about. These horses that have reached these ages were not neglected. All active to the end of their lives. Oh and I hope your Guinea pigs are locked up at night. Yes wrong word, unfortunately, I suppose you would say neglect. Is your real name Princess Fluffy

 

[Goldenstar]

Ester . The point I am making is that these horses to have reached these ages must have been well cared for to the end of their lives. None have suffered. Just unfortunate that a pony got caught up. Ones that have gone to pastures new on managed yards have died of colic and laminitis.You have no need to worry any more about the horses. They have gone. If this episode bothers you so much I will get references for the lady who is looking out for them.
Goldenstar. Let's hope she is more capable than me. As you thought I was not the right person to check other people's horses.
Popsdosh. Shall I expect a knock on my door from the Horse and Hound forum persecution police. I didn't think it would be long before you put your penny worth in.

You were the one that said you were not able to do it and have to agree persuading the unwilling do things is rarely successful.

 

[popsdosh]

Ester . The point I am making is that these horses to have reached these ages must have been well cared for to the end of their lives. None have suffered. Just unfortunate that a pony got caught up. Ones that have gone to pastures new on managed yards have died of colic and laminitis.You have no need to worry any more about the horses. They have gone. If this episode bothers you so much I will get references for the lady who is looking out for them.
Goldenstar. Let's hope she is more capable than me. As you thought I was not the right person to check other people's horses.
Popsdosh. Shall I expect a knock on my door from the Horse and Hound forum persecution police. I didn't think it would be long before you put your penny worth in.

LOl must be feeling hormonal today then.!

 

[KrujaaLass]

Funny . No don't get hormonal. Just think this post has gone way past ridiculous. You few are so bloody perfect. I would love to meet you all in real life so I can attain your perfection LOL

 

[KrujaaLass]

Doshpop. Just to let you know I was dehormonised when I was 45.

 

[ester]

Who is to know what I would be told. I am not taking any chances. You can put as many rules and regulations into place as you like but people have got to comply with them. I am not responsible for actions of other people, what they do or don't do. I cannot force someone to check their horse everyday. If they want to do it they will. As for one colicking behind the hill am I now expected to do 24 hour stake out. No ones ever colicked in the field but bet your life they have standing in a stable In a yard with plenty of people about. These horses that have reached these ages were not neglected. All active to the end of their lives. Oh and I hope your Guinea pigs are locked up at night. Yes wrong word, unfortunately, I suppose you would say neglect. Is your real name Princess Fluffy

I only asked because you said you would be told where to go, indicating you did know what you would be told and I was surprised that given what has happened that anyone would be so resistant to ensuring it was avoided in future. This doesn't mean a whole heap of rules and regulations you force people to comply with, just a conversation about how people might be able to work together so the sorry affair isn't repeated.

I didn't say anything was neglected, neglect is not quite the same as being allowed to suffer, plenty of horses suffer if they colic in the middle of the night that doesn't mean they are neglected.

What have guinea pigs got to do with it and whether they are locked up at night? I'm confused again!

I have no idea what has given you the idea I am fluffy, would people suggesting that the best thing for the horse if no one wants to take responsibility for it be PTS be the sort of thing someone called 'princess fluffy' would come out with?

I am not sure why you posted or what sort of responses you were expecting, it would seem not anything practical or for people to voice their concerns or opinions anyway which is tricky on a forum.

 

[KrujaaLass]

Ester. The people who I have listed do not have horses in this field. One owner with two horses in the field I have not seen for several months. One owner has dementia , whose horse is cared for by my family, the other two I saw today in passing. I will pass your concerns onto them, but won't hold my breath. As for mentioning Guinea pigs, your fellow liveries were concerned about them and gave them a drink. We brush and play with the farm dog and feed the farm cats. I was concerned about your pigs at night because of foxes. I presume you have them in leafy Wiltshire.
I posted to find out how long a horse could go without food and water. Poster said of horse missing for ten days, so there was my answer. No one is ever going to know how long she was there. I did not need to be castigated by the likes of Goldenstar, Amy may you and now posh drop.the horse is gone. End of.

 

[ester]

I know that they do not have horses in that field, I am just surprised that after this event they have no associated concern for horse's in their vicinity or equally want to suggest something.

No worries about the GPs I don't know anyone who would leave them out at night? they are well secured in the day and inside at night shouting at me every time I approach the fridge .

Which reminds me must change my location, less leafy wilts more bleak lincs now!

 

[KrujaaLass]

These people work. They cannot go round muddy fields in the dark. Some are lone women and elderly men, they will not walk into the field alone. When you get older (I don't know how old you are) your bones become more brittle a fall can have dire consequences .I am on medication which makes my bones even more brittle. If I break something everyone will suffer, my animals and my grandchildren. You have to have a bit of foresight in these situations. We have had murders and rapes here so it is a no go for women to tramp round a muddy field in the dark.No near houses if you are in distress, loads of ditches, ponds and knee deep mud .What is your suggestion then. Please don't now start about why I am in a place where murders and rapes have happened. I live here I like it here.

 

[KrujaaLass]

Ester. You are wearing me down. I need wine.

 

[popsdosh]

Ester. The people who I have listed do not have horses in this field. One owner with two horses in the field I have not seen for several months. One owner has dementia , whose horse is cared for by my family, the other two I saw today in passing. I will pass your concerns onto them, but won't hold my breath. As for mentioning Guinea pigs, your fellow liveries were concerned about them and gave them a drink. We brush and play with the farm dog and feed the farm cats. I was concerned about your pigs at night because of foxes. I presume you have them in leafy Wiltshire.
I posted to find out how long a horse could go without food and water. Poster said of horse missing for ten days, so there was my answer. No one is ever going to know how long she was there. I did not need to be castigated by the likes of Goldenstar, Amy may you and now posh drop.the horse is gone. End of.

You already had an answer as the horse was still alive.
Dont make personal comments about me when I havent done about you or would you like me to start.
My comments were general about a YOs duty of care even to liveries horses ,if you dont think it exists good luckj. The guy up north didnt till the courts showed him different.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

I work. I have grandchildren.
I have an isolated yard set well away from main roads, houses and street lighting.
I too have brittle bones, and am lame.
I have fenced off ditches.
I get off my ar5e and check and care for my animals twice daily - usually in the pitch dark by using a good torch, and yes, i check fencing as though it is safe, it can still be damaged by fallen trees and the like.

Just saying.......

These people work. They cannot go round muddy fields in the dark. Some are lone women and elderly men, they will not walk into the field alone. When you get older (I don't know how old you are) your bones become more brittle a fall can have dire consequences .I am on medication which makes my bones even more brittle. If I break something everyone will suffer, my animals and my grandchildren. You have to have a bit of foresight in these situations. We have had murders and rapes here so it is a no go for women to tramp round a muddy field in the dark.No near houses if you are in distress, loads of ditches, ponds and knee deep mud .What is your suggestion then. Please don't now start about why I am in a place where murders and rapes have happened. I live here I like it here.

 

[ester]

These people work. They cannot go round muddy fields in the dark. Some are lone women and elderly men, they will not walk into the field alone.

Surely in which case and if theirs do not come to the gate like yours does then they should either not have horses because they cannot care for them properly themselves, keep them somewhere where they would be more able to care for them, or pay for someone to do so for them who could potentially do it in the daylight?
If they work and cannot go round the field in the dark does that mean that no one checks their horse properly for five days of the week in the winter? I don't see how anyone can ever be happy with themselves keeping an animal like that if that is the case. It isn't about foresight really IMO, not adequately caring for an animal because of the risk to yourself (not you, them, I know yours are cared for) is not a viable long term situation.

 

[KrujaaLass]

Ester you have it all wrong again. These people have horses in the stables In the yard. They see to them everyday

 

[KrujaaLass]

Are these your horses. . I do get off my arse everyday to see to my horses. I spend all day most days caring for them . Again I am not responsible for other people's actions. What they do and don't do. I am sick of this now. Give it a rest

 

[KrujaaLass]

Don't know what you are going in about. Pis dish you want to prosecute this case? Nobody's died, no horse injured. This is a forum not crown court. Find me guilty, put me in prison, for me to rot in hell. I'll drink more wine nw

 

[ester]

Ester you have it all wrong again. These people have horses in the stables In the yard. They see to them everyday

So why aren't the people who own these horses not checking them? One has dementia, one is elderly and having treatment for cancer and there are two others? If they aren't able to check them the same applies re. care.
Everyone seems to have a reason for allowing exactly the same scenario to happen again here, be it physical impairment or likely murder. If the situation is so impossible the people who own the horses in this field really can't care that much/enough that they should own horses.

 

[KrujaaLass]

Go tell them that. We look after the hackney horse who's owner has dementia. Go and amuse yourself. Just shut up

 

[KrujaaLass]

I have now lost the will to live. Goodbye

 

[ester]

Go tell them that. We look after the hackney horse who's owner has dementia. Go and amuse yourself. Just shut up

I would if I knew them, or was anywhere in the vicinity!

I don't understand why you feel the need to be rude to me or popsdosh when we haven't been rude to you only asked questions and been somewhat aghast at the situation. Again I am not sure then why you posted about it or what responses you were expecting.