How long does it take to get somewhere with schooling your horse?

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Pidge

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Just a bit down tonight as although we have come a long with Pidge since having lessons and really knuckling down and working hard progress just seems so slow
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I know he's changed shape a lot since I got him and he's starting to build topline but I am still finding it so hard to get him to work properly
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I have been schooling for the last couple of months in a market harbridge which means I can put my leg on without us pinging round the school or Pidge pulling my left arm out of its socket
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and this has made a big difference but there is still a huge way to go
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If I ride him without the harbridge then he thinks he's a lama
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and to get him to drop nearlly kills me.
Suppose I'm looking for something to help me perservere? I know for his sake (hock spavin in off hind) that it's better for him if he works properly. Just does it take this long with all horses or is he just awkward? Will I ever be able to get him going properly without the harbridge on? 2 steps forward and 10 back
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Is he the same with everyone? Sorry don't want to sound like I am critiscing you, cos I'm not, but may it be worth getting your instructor on him so she can see how he ticks and then go from there?
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I know but sometimes it would just be nice to get on and push the right buttons and it all goes swimmingly!

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Well, I had a GP dressage schoolmaster on share-loan (complicated) and he knew even more evasions than your average horsey.....
Nothing is ever simple....
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don't worry I know you're not criticising me
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He's far worse with other people and a friend at the yard rode him with the harbridge tonight and it brought it home to me how well we click when I ride him, so I should be pleased I suppose but I'm not? His lateral work is lovely and he is very responsive to the leg or body he just doesn't seem to like working properly and would much rather drag himself along on the forehand
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My instructor hasn't ridden him but is very astute and now we've gelled we do get some good work out of him. His walk and trot is far better and we have been working on the canter recently, though it can still be a struggle to get him straight in the canter
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She is really pleased with how he is progressing and the muscle he has built up behind, am I expecting too much?
He was a hireling on a hunt yard before I had him and sometimes I think he'd be happier just doing that as he loves his jumping rather than all this flatwork?
 
Oh I sympathise as I can remember riding a ex GP dressage horse when younger and she was a swine if you could ride
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though doing flying changes at every stride was an experience never to be forgotten
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even if we were only supposed to be cantering sedately down the long side of the school
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Oh I sympathise as I can remember riding a ex GP dressage horse when younger and she was a swine if you could ride
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though doing flying changes at every stride was an experience never to be forgotten
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even if we were only supposed to be cantering sedately down the long side of the school
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Yes, unfortunately if he became excited on a hack...he'd embarass me by piaffing all over the road...literally (he liked piaffe/passage, just not going forwards or straight).
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I know but sometimes it would just be nice to get on and push the right buttons and it all goes swimmingly!

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I had a GP dressage schoolmaster on share-loan (complicated) and he knew even more evasions than your average horsey.....
Nothing is ever simple....
S
smile.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

I used to have 2 lessons a week on a GP Andalusian and she was the same,fab one time changes but if you didn't ask spot on she would freak! If you didn't do anything perfectly she would soooo take the p*ss,very good for learning on!
 
now that sounds like a damn good idea
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Have rashly decided to enter the walk and trot dressage at the yard in the new year as didn't do the recent one as saddle didn't fit! Oh well as long as I get a black one to match my hat and jacket I'll be fine as last time we did a walk and trot test we cantered 3 times during the test and didn't quite hit the 50% mark
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Oh Pidge - I was in exactly the same position as you earlier this year. When I got my boy he worked incorrectly in a false outline, all in front nothing from behind.

It has taken about 8 months of schooling to get him working correctly, long and low, soft and supple and working from behind.

I have been through times exactly as you are describing but just kept on slow and steady - a couple of times I gave the schooling a miss for a week or so and concentrated on hacking out which seemed to refresh us both (although we do hack out at least once a week).

The hard work is worth it - the difference in my boy is amazing. He used to be up tight and tense, short striding when going into the school. Now he strides in relaxed and happy working well even on the buckle during the warm-up.

We haven't finished yet - still got to achieve this in the canter but we will get there - I am determined!!!
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thanks so there is light at the end of the tunnel then
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Sis keeps telling me to look at the positives, he is forward going, tracks up very well, does lovely leg yielding, shoulder in, travers etc, doesn't rear or buck
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etc rather than focussing on the bad things, but its so hard not to
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Your sister is so right - at the beginning I kept thinking about all the things we couldn't do. Then one day my instructor tore me off a strip for being so negative. She then went on to list all the things that we had achieved and told me to be positive. I am not the best most natural rider - riding well is hard work for me so has probably taken me longer than a better rider - but I have to remember I and I alone have achieved this so I must be doing something right!!!
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April is really well schooled but won't do a single thing unless you make her and I'm still working out how to do that!!

I have reached a bit of a plateau at the moment... we have impulsion finally and from that, her outline comes well. We are getting good scores in prelim dr but I just don't know how to take it to the next level! Canter is still a bit dodgy too.
Have just got myself on as many lessons as I can possibly afford both on Ap and at riding schools in London
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It takes a good long time so don't be disheartened. 2 years ago I could hardly get a full circle of canter and it wasn't because she couldn't do it, it was because I couldn't make her hehe
 
It takes a long long time.

Putting things into perspective a little. Classically trained horses, such as those at the SRS take about 12 - 13 years to reach high school level. Modern competition horses trained with speedier modern methods can possibly reach GP with a professional rider by the age of say... 8 years old. Those horses will have been worked hard, professionally and likely daily from being 3 years old.

According to a very well known equine vet who works with a couple of classical riders promoting the benefits of their techniques for the long term physiology of the horse (gerd heuschmann), it takes two years of correct, continous work for a horse to even develop the muscles to be able to carry itself in its front end.

Considering those time scales are horses in the hands of top riders, you can start to gain some perspective on things.

Fair enough you arent wanting to ride GP atm. But consider that everything in GP dressage comes back to a correct working outline with the horse working over the back, into a contact and ultimately (perhaps) offering self carriage... then you can see precisely why a good, correct outline takes so long to develop. If it was doable in a few months, those riders wouldnt be hailed so highly and there would be many more GP horses out there
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Why don't you get someone to video your schooling every so often - sometimes you don't realise how far you have progressed until you watch yourself from a year ago!
 
It does take alot of time, every horse is different so you can never generalise on how long things will take.

My daughter stopped jumping & did nothing but ground work for about 12 months as she had some real problems with her horse. For a long time she never even did canter. She did what you are dong, shoulder in, leg yielding etc & eventually the horse learned not to go charging off & listen to her. After several months she went to a few shows & did some Walk & Trot & some Prelim Dressage tests. Initially they were terrible but she gradually improved until she was in the rosettes. This was all on a horse that was bred & bought for jumping.

He is now in his first year of Affiliated Jumping & he's jumping double clear at Newcomers & will soon be moving onto Foxhunter. You are doing the right thing in taking things steadily. Quick fixes in the horse world rarely have any lasting worth. You are doing it right & you will eventually be very glad you took the time. It does work, stick with it.
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I know the feeling.My old event mare used to be just like yours and it took a year before we could even canter round the school without taking off. I had to use a M-H too for a while.

You will get there! Just keep persevering..
 
Incidently, it took me about a year to be able to ride my PSG school master in a decent shoulder in and canter around the arena without one time tempi changes and im not exaggerating one bit.

I was riding at approximately elementary standard when i got him. It took another year to be able to just about get him to do most of the standard school movements that he knew, in some kind of fashion.

Ive had him 3 years now and he can still evade me like mad. I still have days where i cant canter without the one time changes, we have amazing fun with pirouettes and i can still make him look like an unschooled 4 year old on occasions.... all this from a horse that has competed at PSG, was owned and produced by a list two rider and was used in a number of demonstrations by the lassetters. I could fly my old trainer over here tomorrow and she'd undoubtedly produce amazing work on him but god damn does he test me
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Just remember, you're learning, its damn hard and every tiny step forwards should be seen as a success. Dressage is hard! :P
 
Have you had any lessons with a top trainer? I'm not saying your trainer isn't good, but sometimes a few lessons with the likes of Spencer Wilton REALLY helps! It's amazing the techniques they can show you
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It can get you down sometimes when it feels like you are not making progress but it's hard for us to see it for ourselves - other people normally have to point it out for us.

I can't even keep my boy straight on the track and I feel like crying on a lesson because I'm so crap but I know that I've got to keep on with it or I will never learn.

Try and focus on the things you are good at and not dwell on the other things - no one is perfect at everything.

I think perhaps having a lesson with someone else occasionly gives you new ideas - even watching someone else having a lesson.

Good luck
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I have had George 6mths now, and however wonderful he is I haven't really been able to get him to go in an outline or do circles without falling out. I have lessons once a fortnight and if my instructor gets on she can get George to go well. On Mon I decided to go for a hack first and then went in the school, and suddenly the penny dropped and George started to go really well for me - ok only a few strides at a time but it felt like a breakthrough.
 
Horses are horses
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. They way I have assessed is it is like a ladder, you go up two steps, then you go down one, you might go down another step, you might then go up, three, you might then not go up or down!

All riders have good days all riders have bad days. Horses are not machines and sometimes have their own agendas.

Sit down and positively look how far you have come since Jan 07. You will be suprised how much progress you have made. If you have a pants day, look at what went well. Ie your transitions were good, or your walk was forward and the horse was relaxed over his back ...... Dont dwell on the negatives AT ALL!

To improve the tro you gave to have a good walk, to improve the canter you have to have a good trot ..... so you are working towards cantering by doing the right things.

You say he is leaning on the left rein - do you leg yield? Shoulder In? Turns on the forehand? My mare is chronic [IMO] on the left rein in canter after some sound advice off the forum and some lateral work she has really improved.

Here is the link that helped me out loads.

LINK

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oh pidge i am in the same boat as you *move up love!*
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i have been riding Frankie since April, and when i first started with him he was a plank, walked around like a giraffe, didn't track up and took short strides. I started having lessons on him, and after a few months schooling i noticed a big change in his suppleness. After some slight lameness problems, our progress has plateaued and its frustrating! some days i ride him and i think 'wow that was great, he felt really soft and was working over his back' then i get on him the nest day and he is leaning, falling on all over the place and spooking rushing off all over the place. Some days I cry
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because I think I'm such a crap rider and making Frankie worse.
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I just have to remember all the good days I have had with him, and relax, because as soon as I tense up Frankie does and so the madness continues.
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If you ever want a moan you know where we all are, I am forever moaning on here about Frankie and I and to be honest it's nice to know that I am not the only person who feels like this.

All I can say is never give up, me and Frankie have a long way to go, and I'm going to book some lesson in the new year and I'm determined to get him going as well as he can, build up his topline and sort my position and effectiveness out.

one word: RELAX!!
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I always find that sometimes both of us get it really quickly and it clicks and everything is perfect, or neither of us get it, it takes ages and everything is rubbish
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I guess if everything was easy it wouldn't be an accomplishment to master it
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Thanks to everyone for their replies, very interesting reading them and they have helped tremendously in putting my mind into focus and things into perspective
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There is no quick fix if there was everyone would be doing it and to a very high standard! Keep perservering and build on the foundations of what we've got so far. Look back on how far we have come this year - remember he couldn't do any lateral work before he had his treatment for his hock spavin, now we can and the girls at the yard positively drool over his leg yielding
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Oh and the thought of having a lesson with a top rider like Spencer Wilton has me pooing me my pants at the mere thought of it
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