How many of you keep your old horses going ie hacking on Bute?

R

Rouletterose

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 October 2008
Messages
930
Visit site
As above, just interested to know, as nowdays it seems more common, my vet says that more people ask if they can keep riding their horses on a low dose of Bute, having usually tried the Devils claw type alternatives. usually this is when the horse has low grade lameness in one or more limbs, ie perhaps arthritis.

We had quite an interesting discussion as my vet feels too many horses are kept going, and sometimes not for the right reasons. Also when they are continually on pain killers how can the horse let you know when it's really bloody uncomfortable? I am amazed at the number of people that have their horses on bute, just to hack around, if you really love your horse surely that's not the answer?

Right now just to say that this post is totally without critisism or judgement of anyone who does! just interested to know having chatted about this to my vet over a cuppa when he was visiting one of the horses I look after.
 
I personally don't see anything wrong - I know for a fact that I can't get by without a nurofen or two and an old horse is no different - If it's helping keeping the horse happy and working then so be it!
Kate x
 

I cant see a problem with giving them a little help to still enjoy life - as long as you know what is wrong ie had vet diagnosis.

I bet many of us on here need help from painkillers at times!

Old and stiff joints can be helped a lot so why not give them a little help?
 
My vet said the best thing to do with my old arthritic horse was to keep on riding him at least 3 times a week with the help of Danilon. I had other horses to ride and to be honest I would have been happy if he had told me to completely retire him and let him live his life hanging around in the field. The vet said this would be the worst thing to do as he would just seize up.
My oldster was on Danilon for around 4 years before he had to be pts. He enjoyed going out for his little hacks. Giving old horses painkillers is no different to older people taking Ibuprofen for their aches and pains to make their lives more comfortable.
 
No way, over time the bute will need to be increased as the horse becomes used to it, then what do you do, add more..
Call me soft, I'd like to be called caring, but if either of my horses needed bute to be ridden I wouldn't ride them.

If bute was needed I want to know why, if it was a permantent unsoundness then I'd not ride. If it was something that needed treatment I'd get it sorted.

But then I don't see either of my horses as something I have got to ride, there welfare and feelings come first everytime.
 
[ QUOTE ]
No way, over time the bute will need to be increased as the horse becomes used to it, then what do you do, add more..
Call me soft, I'd like to be called caring, but if either of my horses needed bute to be ridden I wouldn't ride them.

If bute was needed I want to know why, if it was a permantent unsoundness then I'd not ride. If it was something that needed treatment I'd get it sorted.

But then I don't see either of my horses as something I have got to ride, there welfare and feelings come first everytime.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you would pts rather than give a bit of bute/ danilon ?
Or retire them to the field on no pain relief?
 
HUH!! what you on about PTS getting a bit drastic here aren't you. If my horse needed treatment such as bute to ease his pain then yes I'd allow it.

What I would never do is give my horse bute just so I could ride him which is the point risen here.

Turn out with no pain relief?? Don't you read posts correctly,

if you read again you'll see I said

If bute was needed I want to know why, if it was a permantent unsoundness then I'd not ride. If it was something that needed treatment I'd get it sorted.

I never said I wouldn't give bute only that I would not ride it
 
With older guys light exercise on a regular basis can be very good for them and keep their muscles toned to support arthritic joints etc. so I'd go with low level bute and keeping them hacking out. Clearly I wouldn't compete or do hard work and I'd make sure I had a diagnosis first so I knew that I wasn't likely to be agravating a soft tissue injury for example. Also if a horse needs bute to be ridden then doesn't this suggest they are lame at walk, trot or canter? In which case I'd be giving them low level anti-inflammatories even if they were turned out in the field as they would also be uncomfortable there.

Exercise is good and if I'd got a bit creeky I wouldn't become a couch potato, i'd carry on moderate exercise with pain relief and I'm sure that I'd stay sounder for longer. So I'd do the same for my horse if it got to that.

( Didn't actually do this with my old boy as he was a bit of a wally and wouldn't do quiet hacking so he had to retire!)

As for risks of long term use, if you are using higher levels your vet will suggest annual urine tests to check his internal organs are working well but damage is by long term, high use as it is in humans and I doubt most people get to feeding at that level!

So, getting to the point. I'd happily use low levels of danilon/bute to keep a diagnosed horse active, fit and healthy.

Sqip
 

Each to their own.

In my experience most vets that I have worked with would agree that older horses that are stiff or arthritic do better to keep moving and most ( I did say most) horses still like to get out and about a bit ie gentle hacking.

As I said before - I can't see a problem with giving them some bute/danilon to help.
 
Mine has arthritis, not lame, just 'not right' in his feet, the majority of people can't tell. He's on two bute a day as well as bute-x and at vets advice ridden gently 3 times a week to keep his joints from seizing up.
He's off work atm as he's become stiff and uninterested in his work. If the physio/vet/saddler fail to find anything to 'fix' he'll stay off work, and then I'll re-asses how much bute he has- I just try to react to how he is and adapt my routine/work schedule around how he's going.
 
when it got to the stage where my vet said 'you can still ride him, bute him up the days before you ride' i retired him. No-way would i drug him up just so i could ride him. I have been happier letting him life his life out in the field, its only this year (4 years later) he has started to need bute, he will be PTS before winter sets in. Now IF i had buted him up 4 years ago - he would have 4 years damage to his liver etc - that IMO wouldnt have been fun!

if you compare it to humans - would you choose to go and do some exercise if you were struggling to walk and had to be drugged up??? i very much imagine pretty much everyone would do what they can (for horses, mooching around the field getting upto all sorts!), without having to rely on pain medication.

My opinion, and i wouldnt change what i have done with my old gelding - yes i long for 'one last ride' but i cant. he was recently blood tested and it all came back normal, which is good, now imagine after 4 years of bute... i doubt it would have come back so healthy!
 
It depends on the cause of the pain/discomfort. As others have said, the advice often given about arthriticky horses is to keep them going under saddle as it does the joints good. If that means bute when you ride, I don't see the problem.

But my old boy has had navicular disease for 5 years. He's field sound, capable of galloping around when it suits him, and for the first 4 years after the diagnosis I hacked him out fairly often. But in the past year he's become increasingly unhappy when ridden, especially on hard surfaces or going downhill, which presumably means there's been further degeneration of the navicular bone, and I haven't ridden him now for about 6 months. I wouldn't consider buting him up just so I could ride.

I'm lucky in that I have another horse to ride but hope my attitude to the old boy's welfare would be the same even if he was my only horse.
 
Hussar, Iam in the same position with my boy. I have been told I can keep on riding him lightly, he is on danilon, but I am umming and arring whether to stop. Trouble is he will be my last horse and finding it hard to give up. If vet said pack up I would, also says that he is a very idle boy, so sometimes not sure if he is uncomfortable or just plain cant be bothered.
 
[ QUOTE ]
when it got to the stage where my vet said 'you can still ride him, bute him up the days before you ride' i retired him. No-way would i drug him up just so i could ride him. I have been happier letting him life his life out in the field, its only this year (4 years later) he has started to need bute, he will be PTS before winter sets in. Now IF i had buted him up 4 years ago - he would have 4 years damage to his liver etc - that IMO wouldnt have been fun!

if you compare it to humans - would you choose to go and do some exercise if you were struggling to walk and had to be drugged up??? i very much imagine pretty much everyone would do what they can (for horses, mooching around the field getting upto all sorts!), without having to rely on pain medication.

My opinion, and i wouldnt change what i have done with my old gelding - yes i long for 'one last ride' but i cant. he was recently blood tested and it all came back normal, which is good, now imagine after 4 years of bute... i doubt it would have come back so healthy!

[/ QUOTE ]



Imagine what after 4 years of bute????

Liver damage? - Maybe, but its not nearly as widespread as people like to think.

I know of many horses that have lived happily for years on quite high doses of bute. Not one I know ever suffered from liver damage.
 
My husband's old hunter hunts one day a week (as Field Master's horse in a very limited jumping but quite hilly country) on one Danilon a day (plus his joint supplement.) He has high articular ringbone and if he doesn't work, he siezes up. He has Sweet Itch and runs to fat very quikly if not worked so NOT suitable for paddock retirement. He LOVES his hunting and it helps keep him young (he's 20!) and I'd happily keep him hunting on two Danilon a day or even 3 if it came to that!

Quality of life is FAR more important than quantity. If he lives a year or two less due to the Danilon, so be it! When he can't work, the time will have come for him to be PTS. He's not let down completely during the summer - always hacks out quietly EVERY day for 45 minutes - and he STILL bucks like stink when leading the runners down to the start at the point-to-point!

Two or even three Danilon will NOT mask a lameness due to - for example - a foot abcess.
 
My 17yo pony has Bone Spavin and is officially a light hack - he is fine for hacking for perhaps an hour maybe more with trot and canter on suitable surfaces on one Bute per day but I'm experimenting at the moment and maybe able to reduce this.

I agreed with vet that he isn't ready for retirement yet, he appears to enjoy his hacking and vet said he would become fat and stiff if left in the field. Vet said he knows literally hundreds of horses treated the same and has had not one case of liver damage as he is careful to keep them on the minimum dose.

I now have another pony so no pressure on Chum to be 100% and I could stop ridng him if I wanted to but I wont while he still enjoying it - no way would I ride him if I thought he wasn't.
 
My boy was diagnosed with what the vet called slight ringbone and sidebone (being welsh and stomping about didnt help), about five years ago, he's 19 now. He was an "old school" kind of vet, used to vet at Badminton and doesnt suffer fools so I'd trust him to the max. He insisted that I treat him and ride him like a normal horse, despite my initial reservations. He has one sachet of bute every other day, never more than that and he schools about six times a week at medium/advanced medium level with the occasional jumping session, all on a surface, and in all the years since the diagnosis he's never taken a short step and has a love of life. I just dont push it, we dont go on the road because he jogs and we don't have gallops on grass which I know annoys him, but he's fit and enjoys life, that's my priority and always will be, I'll know when things are uncomfortable.
 
[ QUOTE ]
when it got to the stage where my vet said 'you can still ride him, bute him up the days before you ride' i retired him. No-way would i drug him up just so i could ride him. I have been happier letting him life his life out in the field, its only this year (4 years later) he has started to need bute, he will be PTS before winter sets in. Now IF i had buted him up 4 years ago - he would have 4 years damage to his liver etc - that IMO wouldnt have been fun!

if you compare it to humans - would you choose to go and do some exercise if you were struggling to walk and had to be drugged up??? i very much imagine pretty much everyone would do what they can (for horses, mooching around the field getting upto all sorts!), without having to rely on pain medication.

My opinion, and i wouldnt change what i have done with my old gelding - yes i long for 'one last ride' but i cant. he was recently blood tested and it all came back normal, which is good, now imagine after 4 years of bute... i doubt it would have come back so healthy!

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks to everyone for all your replies, I find this kind of thing a very interesting subject, but I have to agree with the quote above I think she/he says it all. many thanks
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top