How much can a horse 'put it on'?

[Wagtail]

Okay, so the mare at my yard has been given the all clear for the gastric ulcers (she had been diagnosed a few months ago and has undergone treatment) but she still refuses to let her owner ride her. She refuses to go forward, swishing her tail and swinging her head around to look at her flank as though she has colic. Yet she gallops round the field bucking and prancing and will work on the lunge. When I have ridden her, I am a lot firmer, but she goes all bunched up like she's in severe pain and it is like riding a headless horse as her head is so tucked in. If you take the leg off she does an immediate halt even from trot or canter. She has also reared but only once. Mainly it is just threats though she feels as though she will explode at any minute and she is a very athletic mare from top competition lines.

So my question is this: I know horses are perfectly capable of nappy behaviour to try to avoid work, but can a horse really put on pain and completely change their way of going from being very strong and heavy in front (when being naughty) to bunching themselves up and avoiding even the slightest of contacts? Also, looking round at their flanks as though they have colic. Can a horse learn this behaviour?

By the way, this mare has had thousands of pounds spent on her to find out the cause and has been to three specialist centres. Her teeth are fine, so is her tack. The vets all think she is having us on. Trouble is, now I am going to have to really push her and I fear this may actually be dangerous. Hubby doesn't want me to do it, but it's my job!

 

[Bluejazz]

Hi
I would still suggest there is something wrong with her. As she is a mare she could be very hormonal and mares often get tight in the back close to the overies (just behind saddle) with the addition of tack/ saddle. Have you had a horse physio look at her?

My friend's mare sometimes behaves likes yours. Then when my friend gets the horse physio out she always finds the same tightness over the overies. Always the same issue. Its not the saddle but just strong hormones.

I have mares and while they are never badly behaved (rear or buck) I do find constant spooking a sign that something isn't right. They are trying not to be nasty to me but at the same time trying to tell me they're not happy.

I understand it can be frustrating. Like you I have spend thousands on a horse with a minor problem and can't find the cause.

If its hormones, do you notice anything worse when she is in season?
If the horse hasn't always been like this and before was better behaved then somewhere they've probably got pain.

 

[Tr0uble]

That's exactly how my horse was behaving, we also investigated for, and found ulcers. Cured them but the behaviour continued. Further investigations finally showed he was tying up to varying degrees.

 

[Wagtail]

Hi
I would still suggest there is something wrong with her. As she is a mare she could be very hormonal and mares often get tight in the back close to the overies (just behind saddle) with the addition of tack/ saddle. Have you had a horse physio look at her?

My friend's mare sometimes behaves likes yours. Then when my friend gets the horse physio out she always finds the same tightness over the overies. Always the same issue. Its not the saddle but just strong hormones.

I have mares and while they are never badly behaved (rear or buck) I do find constant spooking a sign that something isn't right. They are trying not to be nasty to me but at the same time trying to tell me they're not happy.

I understand it can be frustrating. Like you I have spend thousands on a horse with a minor problem and can't find the cause.

If its hormones, do you notice anything worse when she is in season?
If the horse hasn't always been like this and before was better behaved then somewhere they've probably got pain.

Thanks. That is my instinct too. But she has been fully investigated and scanned on several occasions to check for ovary problems. The first sign of the problem returning (as we have had a couple of remissions) has been very strong, spooky behaviour. Then she gradually gets worse until she is completely bunched up. The problem is she has had every test going and no cause can be found. She is the same whether in season or not so it is not hormones. Her owner wants me to really push her now as she is desperate to be able to ride her again. She is now convinced the mare is having us on as that is what all the vets have told her. But it will be me who has to do the pushing as the owner is not a strong rider. I don't want to come over as a whimp as I can deal with badly behaved horses, bucking, napping etc, but this just feels SO awful. And there is nothing to get hold of as her head seems to have disappeared somewhere. Its so hard to explain. The last time I really pushed her and she was just starting with the spooky stage, she reared and spun round, nearly falling over on top of me.

 

[dominobrown]

I think there is still something wrong. Horses can put it on but they haven't been to drama school so its normally pretty obvious!

Could it be memory pain? My horse had a KS op, and was barley rideable before. Sometimes when you ask for new movements, or a more advanced outline on the flat he throws a paddy and gets really wound up. However if you remain patient and takie it slowly, and have a longish warm up he is much more willing. Basically he tenses up thinking 'This is going to hurt, I can't do that, arrrghhhh, it's going to hurt...', and if you just take it back and step and try little be little asking a bit more he then relises he can do it, then gets very pleased with himself!

 

[Bluejazz]

Thanks. That is my instinct too. But she has been fully investigated and scanned on several occasions to check for ovary problems. The first sign of the problem returning (as we have had a couple of remissions) has been very strong, spooky behaviour. Then she gradually gets worse until she is completely bunched up. The problem is she has had every test going and no cause can be found. She is the same whether in season or not so it is not hormones. Her owner wants me to really push her now as she is desperate to be able to ride her again. She is now convinced the mare is having us on as that is what all the vets have told her. But it will be me who has to do the pushing as the owner is not a strong rider. I don't want to come over as a whimp as I can deal with badly behaved horses, bucking, napping etc, but this just feels SO awful. And there is nothing to get hold of as her head seems to have disappeared somewhere. Its so hard to explain. The last time I really pushed her and she was just starting with the spooky stage, she reared and spun round, nearly falling over on top of me.

I still think there is something wrong, especially if the poor mare is so desperate she does that.
Its OK for the owner to say push her...especially as they don't sound brave enough to do it themselves. However I do have one idea...will PM you.

 

[Wagtail]

That's exactly how my horse was behaving, we also investigated for, and found ulcers. Cured them but the behaviour continued. Further investigations finally showed he was tying up to varying degrees.

Have you managed to cure him? It does seem as though she is tying up, but she hasn't done any work at all! She walks on for half a circle or so and then starts to tense and bunch up. Trop is even worse. Strangely, canter (if you can get that far) seems the most comfortable for her.

 

[Flame_]

There will be a reason, it doesn't mean you'll ever find out what it is. If the horse really doesn't want to work, it doesn't matter what the reason is, it will never be a pleasure to anyone.

If it were mine I'd turn away for a year then try bringing it back. If it comes back happy to do a job, great, if not, call it a day. No one wants to ride a miserable horse and it sounds like the owners have already looked as hard as is feasible for the cause.

 

[Wagtail]

There will be a reason, it doesn't mean you'll ever find out what it is. If the horse really doesn't want to work, it doesn't matter what the reason is, it will never be a pleasure to anyone.

If it were mine I'd turn away for a year then try bringing it back. If it comes back happy to do a job, great, if not, call it a day. No one wants to ride a miserable horse and it sounds like the owners have already looked as hard as is feasible for the cause.

Yep. I totally agree. She is a stunning and talented animal, but for some reason she doesn't want to work, and if she were mine I would just have to live with it. As you say, rest her for a year maybe put her in foal (due to her fab bloodlines and excellent conformation and nature) and then try again. Though she has now had around a year off any proper work already. Just wish her owner felt the same, though I suppose when you only have one horse (that you would keep for life) and can't really afford another at livery, she is quite desperate to get riding her again.

 

[Tr0uble]

Yep, Snip sometimes takes three steps and bunches up, even though he can go ok on the lunge if you get off...

He's a work in progress but yes I believe I've pretty much cracked it though for him it means a life long micro management task! He tied up mildly recently but I caught it early and he was fine within a few days.

Low sugars and starches, high oil and keep electrolytes up.

 

[Tr0uble]

Oh, and keep the horse very warm!