How much can hay affect a horse?

[poiuytrewq]

I bought my horse last year. We didn’t get all that well at first.
Then went through a phase of thinking he was the best thing ever, I now hate the damn thing. He’s a nightmare. Gos from plodding happily down the road to turning himself inside out for no real reason.
At first I blamed the sudden green grass after having had none all summer, that was ages ago now though and his sharpness if anything is getting worse.
The only other thing I can think of is the hay. I’d previously had him on meadow hay supplied by a friend. As soon as ours was cut I had to swap (friend was doing me a favour and it was a pita for him)
Now at the time we baled two lots, one our regular old meadow hay the other an ungrazed grass field planted for horses 2 years ago but never used. I was told it was a horse and pony grass mix.
I chose that batch because it’s so lovely and clean.
Could this be the issue? Can hay affect a horses attitude THAT much?
Sadly OH sold the meadow hay which is annoying but I do have one big bale left so will switch back and hope for good things!
He’s had physio, saddler , dentist, magnesium, daily turnout whatever the weather.
L

 

[poiuytrewq]

The other change I guess is that I soaked the old hay and don’t with the new because it’s no nice I don’t have too, (which is a massive relief, however I’d rather go back to soaking than die!)

 

[Landcruiser]

How old is he, and what's he done? Have you done despooking with him? Groundwork? What's he like in hand? Is there anything he spooks at in particular?

 

[SEL]

My PSSM mare - definitely

The native pony gets gut issues and therefore tetchy on rough hay but is lovely on fine hay (& they tested out broadly the same)

When I was on livery at a riding school we got a batch in that sent all the small ponies bonkers. We persuaded the farmer to test it and it was 17% NSC. They had to soak it until they got a new batch.

 

[splashgirl45]

Was he out 24/7 before the spooking ? And yes hay can affect them also carrots made my mare wild so she was limited to 1 a day

 

[onemoretime]

Try giving him some brewers yeast. I started to give this to my mare and quickly noticed how much more chilled she was. I give 20 grams morning and night. I buy it from Horse Herbs online.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I’d not say he’s desperately spooky, he just appears to be using things as an excuse (no, I’m not that person that says things like that, honestly ?) I just mean it as a figure of speech.
He’s quite a big strong horse anyway and is good in traffic, but for example last week a rattly trailer started him bouncing, two cars meeting and passing us too slowly exacerbated him to besides himself. It was the waiting on the verge for a second longer than he wanted too. Today I couldn’t even say what it was. Eyes on stalks, blowing he just gets more and more upright and elevated. He will fling his head around and bunny hop. He’s trying to P off and not being allowed winds him up.
When he’s quiet he doesn’t classically spook if that makes sense. His genuine “that made me jump” is to leap and shoot for a few strides but it’s not often.
He’s done a bit of everything.
He’s a bit bolshy on the ground, was bad at first but we have all but got on top of that, the only example now would be if the hunt was around or shooting. Something genuinely exciting he would need reminding.
Yes he was out 24/7 but started jumping out when it got dark, once getting onto the road so had had to come in over night.

 

[poiuytrewq]

My PSSM mare - definitely

The native pony gets gut issues and therefore tetchy on rough hay but is lovely on fine hay (& they tested out broadly the same)

When I was on livery at a riding school we got a batch in that sent all the small ponies bonkers. We persuaded the farmer to test it and it was 17% NSC. They had to soak it until they got a new batch.

I’ve just taken a sample to test actually. One of my ponies got a big footy a few times this year and that’s fairly unusual if I’m careful with him.

 

[ihatework]

Anything is possible, it’s probably more likely to be something other than the hay, but equally it’s not unheard of.

I had a very feed sensitive horse once and she was a spooky over dramatic ginger thing on ryegrass hay

 

[Hackback]

Linseed did that to my horse. I tried it on two separate occasions, same result each time. Alpha A to a lesser extent and once haylage. I'm always surprised just how much dietcan affect a horse. But the Linseed was definitely the worst - like you I thought I was going to die!

 

[MereChristmas]

Random question..
How much grass have you got? Is it growing like crazy, I know ours is.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Random question..
How much grass have you got? Is it growing like crazy, I know ours is.

Barely any really. We never have lots and we seeded it ourselves so know it’s not rye or anything. I am currently able to turn out a Welsh A with cushings on it un muzzled

 

[J&S]

You say he goes from "plodding along" to"turning inside out". Are you really riding him?? As in: on a contact, up to the bit, in front of the leg , etc etc? Could you get ahead of him, so to speak, and just not give him the opportunity to mess about? Maybe he needs a bit more "work", rather than nice pleasant (!) hacking?
Alternatively is there some hidden pain issue that is putting him on "red alert"?

 

[poiuytrewq]

You say he goes from "plodding along" to"turning inside out". Are you really riding him?? As in: on a contact, up to the bit, in front of the leg , etc etc? Could you get ahead of him, so to speak, and just not give him the opportunity to mess about? Maybe he needs a bit more "work", rather than nice pleasant (!) hacking?
Alternatively is there some hidden pain issue that is putting him on "red alert"?

Probably not as much as I should, I tend to feel a bit like a passenger sometimes. I always ride him with a contact.
I am certain it’s not pain related no, thought process being that I could take him out round the roads he knows in company and he will be great, some days he doesn’t put a foot wrong, always feels a bit in the edge but it’s usually something that happens or a noise or going a new route, off roading, company wanting to canter etc
He just feels a bit explosive very suddenly.
I think if it were pain it would be more consistent?
I just feel like there’s a reason. He was fine to ride until about August, regardless of how I ride him (roughly)

 

[poiuytrewq]

Also to add plodding along may not have been the best term either, he walks out with a contact until something distracts him.

 

[L&M]

Just a thought, I tried magnesium on my spooky cob and made him 10 times worse.....think it only works as a calmer if the grass is deficient.

 

[maya2008]

Has his workload dropped? Maybe slower hacks as the ground is wet?

 

[J&S]

What job did he do before you bought him? Has he suddenly got fitter or is he having a bit of a "holiday" with you?

 

[Mahoganybay]

You could be describing my horse, absolutely foot perfect, chilled and sweetness when out Spring/Summer.

Come September she would start to over react to noise, situations and be happy one minute and on high alert the next at the slightest thing. Her stress bucket got full very quickly.

I had numerous rather scary incidents which ended in a crashing fall at speed during a lesson where she badly reacted to a noise outside of the arena and I hit the deck shoulder first.

Previous to my fall & because of her behaviour , I tested for PSSM, she had xrayed/scanned back, stifles, SI Joint, both front feet, suspensories, hocks, spent a fortune on physio, saddles, diet and supplements etc.

October 2020 she was scoped for ulcers and found to have squamous and glandular affecting the pyloric region. Grade 3, poor girl ?

It took numerous treatments and four scopes until she was clear and I’ve had my gorgeous chilled, willing & dramatically unreactive horse for the last 2 years and counting.

Just a thought?

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Can you have some lessons, maybe attend another yard and get the staff, assuming it is a professional yard,, to make sure this is not horse taking the pixel. Get them to handle the horse , see how they are doing this. Horses need to have rules from you their leader, else they will take the lead. You mention feeling like a passenger , this should never be the case I know all this stuff about keeping contact is often trotted out. I disagree, the horse is ridden by the rider not by a bit of metal in his mouth.
My horses were never hacked out other than on the lightest of contact.
Try firm contact on a racehorse and you will be preparing them for action.
Good contact is necessary for dressage, but then you are asking horse to conform to your requirements, and after you've done that you let him relax on a loose rein, he does not decide to stop for a pick of grass, or roll, you are still riding him.
The horse may need more work, or you can lunge in order to ask him to work while you control him from the ground. Soaking dry hay removes sugars, dust and pollen, it does not take long.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

PS have a look on YouTube at Barry Hook, he drives horses and ponies, from blank canvas to problem horses, after schooling in a busy arena and in fields he is out on busy roads, he has only the lightest of contact. The horses are with him for six weeks, sometimes more, by which time they are pretty fit, and getting hard feed plus roughage. He will sometimes give them a day off, in order to test their behaviour when fresh, they don't explode. His attitude is calm and relaxed, but (lightly) firm .

 

[MissTyc]

I'd definitely go back to soaking the hay. Sugars send some of them quite loopy, whatever form they come in.

Lots of great advice in this thread, also maybe get his brain engaged in some new learning, even if you're teaching from the ground. My cob is a super star but also very sharp at certain times of year or after clipping, so I teach him new stuff and then he sleeps well. He can do a decent piaffe from the ground now. 20 minutes working on that and he's out for the count.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Thanks all.

To try and reply to questions, sorry if I miss any!

He started life driving. However bolted and had an accident so isn’t to be driven anymore.
Rebroken professionally to ride. I was actually working at the premises where he was sent. My boss rented part of the yard from people who did breaking, schooling etc so unbeknown to me at the time years ago
I watched the process and he seemed to go well.
Returned home, not suitable to ride for the owner so a young guy had him, my daughters friend. He did lower level bits of everything with him. Last year he had bit of a leg so was box rested and turned away.
As he was coming back into work this lad was offered a better (competitively) horse so I bought this one as a happy hack type when my ex racer had gone wrong.
He spent the winter walking on the roads. I’ve done lots of rehab with work and wanted to be sure he was done properly, we were also nannying a neighbour and her youngster. Then the ground went rock hard so although the distance picked up and we started trotting more with odd bits of canter where we got lucky and found good grass cover.
As the ground softened this behaviour started, so from nannying a TB across stubble fields I’m suddenly having a job to hold one side of him.

I don’t keep him at a yard, he lives at home and I’m completely confident in my handling on the ground etc. I’ve worked on racing yards for over 15 years and am very used to handling young big fit horses along with youngsters and barely handled horses, so that’s not our problem. He’s fine to handle.

@Exploding Chesnuts, thanks I’ll take a look at that. You make a good point re the contact, when my TB was first out of training bridged loose reins always settled him, It doesn’t work with this lad!

Lessons are booked.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I *think something has started this, maybe I didn’t catch it fast enough and I still can’t pin point what but do accept it’s probably rider error that things have escalated.
I’m currently trying different hay, have sent the sample of mine off to test. More out of interest than anything else. We have a winters worth so it would be handy to know.

Ulcers, I don’t think, I may of course be wrong but he looks great, gets daily turnout, as lib hay, never ever girthy or grouchy. I know you can’t tell from the outside but i can very often say at work “that’s got ulcers” and this horse I just wouldn’t.
I’ve used the same saddlers and physio as previous owners and both have commented he looks amazing.
I will absolutely check it out if I get no where though.