How much can this horse carry? photo

[KittyinAus]

Hi folks,

The horse is eleven years old and has a sacroiliac issue. He's 16.2hh and fairly hefty. (The photo is a few years old. The headcollar is too small because I hadn't bought him a WB size one at that point. The larger person is me.) He's been on a never ending holiday due to factors beyond my control. The plan is to rehab him first. Then to saddle train him. He's been sat on once. He is harness trained. My initial thoughts are to be able to stand on a bathroom scale, fully dressed in my riding clothes, holding the fully mounted saddle and saddle cloths, and have all that be less than 80kg. Am I being too careful or not careful enough? Thanks.

 

[meleeka]

There is a figure of 20% of body weight for how much they can carry comfortably. Given he has had problems I think I’d err on the side of caution with that. I also think it depends on how slowly you want to bring him into work and how balanced you are as a rider.

 

[ycbm]

That should be OK weight wise, but i would worry about a plan to bring a horse into work ridden at 11 when he has already had sacroiliac issues without carrying weight on his back.

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[cobgoblin]

If he was fit healthy and used to carrying weight under saddle, then I would say that weight would be fine. With a back problem I would only expect him to carry a very lightweight rider..

 

[Red-1]

That is so much of a how long is a piece of string question.

If he has SI issues, is he even fit to ride? What does your vet say?

Generally, how heavy a rider a horse can carry will depend on pre-existing conditions, level of fitness, experience of rider, fit and type of saddle, expectations of rider....

I have found that a fit, balanced rider is a lot easier for a horse to carry than an unbalanced one of the same weight.

The saddle has to fit the rider so the rider is not using a lever action of the back of the saddle into the back (many larger riders sit right up to the cantle).

If the vet gives the OK, I would start by leading in hand for extended distances, including hill work. The horse will become more toned, and the rider will increase fitness and muscle tone too. Then at least he has a strong base to start with. I have found leading on hacks has an excellent effect on back strength, as long as the walking is swinging forwards, using the full stride length.

If he has SI issues, then I would take the breaking process very slowly, sadly backing a horse usually involves many turns and circles.

Once backed, I would keep on with the in-hand hacking to keep his fitness and tone up, and increase the riding very slowly.

 

[Lurfy]

I have a 17hh tb with a sacroiliac problem and we no longer ride him, even my daughter who is 60 kilos doesn't ride him now. How serious is your horse's sacral problem? What does your vet say, I would be guided by your vet and the horse.

 

[holeymoley]

I think you will get lots of different answers here as no one knows the extent of your horse’s injury or how will react coming back in to work. Personally I wouldn’t put anything over 60kg on him.

 

[Flicker]

A horse with long standing SI dysfunction will really only comfortably carry a very light rider for very light work. When I was trying to rehab my mare (who we ended up PTS due to chronic SI issues) last year, I had a pro rider hacking her for me a couple of times a week. He is about 5’6 and looks like he is made of bits of wire twisted together, and she struggled with him on their last hack together.

I would have a very long chat with your vet before you do anything.

 

[boats]

yeah i'd one with sacroiliac and he was a nightmare to keep comfortable and working happily. i spent all my time keeping his back and muscles strong enough to work comfortably. and that was a very fit tb who had been in constant work beforehand and had a good base of fitness and muscles to begin with and knew how to work correctly over his back.

my worry with the one you mention is that it's 11 and has never developed the correct muscles or strength for riding, you are going to be building muscles from scratch on an (oldish) horse, which is a long, careful process to do correctly. if he's been harnessed trained he will have to learn how to go a completely different way, and until he understands being ridden a completely different way, the work will actually be detrimental to his SI unless done by a rider who understands the physio elements of it.

this isn't a case of just bringing a horse slowly back into work, it's a case of doing the correct work so that you don't make the SI joint worse. Personally I would look at a different project, I think the age, body weakness and the fact it's to be broken in at such a late age goes against it. my SI horse eventually ended up retired as he became uncomfortable taking weight behind, even on hacks with slight slopes and hills.

 

[KittyinAus]

There is a figure of 20% of body weight for how much they can carry comfortably. Given he has had problems I think I’d err on the side of caution with that. I also think it depends on how slowly you want to bring him into work and how balanced you are as a rider.

Thanks, Am aiming for 15%.

 

[KittyinAus]

yeah i'd one with sacroiliac and he was a nightmare to keep comfortable and working happily. i spent all my time keeping his back and muscles strong enough to work comfortably. and that was a very fit tb who had been in constant work beforehand and had a good base of fitness and muscles to begin with and knew how to work correctly over his back.

my worry with the one you mention is that it's 11 and has never developed the correct muscles or strength for riding, you are going to be building muscles from scratch on an (oldish) horse, which is a long, careful process to do correctly. if he's been harnessed trained he will have to learn how to go a completely different way, and until he understands being ridden a completely different way, the work will actually be detrimental to his SI unless done by a rider who understands the physio elements of it.

this isn't a case of just bringing a horse slowly back into work, it's a case of doing the correct work so that you don't make the SI joint worse. Personally I would look at a different project, I think the age, body weakness and the fact it's to be broken in at such a late age goes against it. my SI horse eventually ended up retired as he became uncomfortable taking weight behind, even on hacks with slight slopes and hills.

Hi harness career was very brief. He trots soundly and you can pick up both back feet without issues. That's generally not so with horses with this issue.

 

[KittyinAus]

I have a 17hh tb with a sacroiliac problem and we no longer ride him, even my daughter who is 60 kilos doesn't ride him now. How serious is your horse's sacral problem? What does your vet say, I would be guided by your vet and the horse.

It's very mild. He moves well enough to be mistaken for a Warmblood.

 

[KittyinAus]

yeah i'd one with sacroiliac and he was a nightmare to keep comfortable and working happily. i spent all my time keeping his back and muscles strong enough to work comfortably. and that was a very fit tb who had been in constant work beforehand and had a good base of fitness and muscles to begin with and knew how to work correctly over his back.

my worry with the one you mention is that it's 11 and has never developed the correct muscles or strength for riding, you are going to be building muscles from scratch on an (oldish) horse, which is a long, careful process to do correctly. if he's been harnessed trained he will have to learn how to go a completely different way, and until he understands being ridden a completely different way, the work will actually be detrimental to his SI unless done by a rider who understands the physio elements of it.

this isn't a case of just bringing a horse slowly back into work, it's a case of doing the correct work so that you don't make the SI joint worse. Personally I would look at a different project, I think the age, body weakness and the fact it's to be broken in at such a late age goes against it. my SI horse eventually ended up retired as he became uncomfortable taking weight behind, even on hacks with slight slopes and hills.

He's my horse, so kind of stuck with him. Even if he is never rideable, he gets to stay. Going to do the in-hand rehabilitation work anyway. Ending up being ridable would just be a bonus. He has a strong personality and is very sweet. I love him very much.

 

[KittyinAus]

If he was fit healthy and used to carrying weight under saddle, then I would say that weight would be fine. With a back problem I would only expect him to carry a very lightweight rider..

Which percentage of his weight would be a lightweight rider including the saddle please? Am currently aiming for 15% but could go down to as low as 10% if that's nescessary. He weighs about 600kg

 

[ycbm]

Hi harness career was very brief. He trots soundly and you can pick up both back feet without issues. That's generally not so with horses with this issue.

I'm sorry, but there are a lot of horses with SI issues who show no problems until they are asked to carry a rider.

.

 

[cobgoblin]

Which percentage of his weight would be a lightweight rider including the saddle please? Am currently aiming for 15% but could go down to as low as 10% if that's nescessary. He weighs about 600kg

I said a very lightweight rider.. So perhaps in the region of 7 stone for the rider. Its always possible that even that weight would upset his SI.
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[Northern]

Hi harness career was very brief. He trots soundly and you can pick up both back feet without issues. That's generally not so with horses with this issue.

This is not true, my mare has SI issues and you can pick her hind feet up all day, every day. Never caused an issue with the farrier, but did cause an issue once you asked her to do something under saddle. If you are set on riding this horse, I think being as light weight as you can will always be beneficial to him if he has SI issues. But most importantly, make sure he is properly fit and muscled enough to carry a rider before asking him to do stuff under saddle. Good luck!

 

[KittyinAus]

Thank you everyone for your answers. He's going to be rehabbed anyway. If he ends up rideable, that's great. If he ends up not rideable, that's fine too. He is really a super horse and doesn't have to do anything useful at all.

 

[MiniMilton]

My 14.3 horse (well big pony! WB/connemara Cross) had SI injury and is back in work and feeling great. He had longer off than recommended by the vet (my pregnancy etc then too busy with young kids) I'm currently 70kgs so he is carrying about 16% of his bodyweight not including tack and he doesn't seem phased by that at all. I'm hoping to get the weight down a good bit but that's easier said than done.
If you are aiming for same weight ratio and you aren't looking to rush the rehab, I don't see why you should have any problems. Only time will tell. Best of luck.

 

[KittyinAus]

My 14.3 horse (well big pony! WB/connemara Cross) had SI injury and is back in work and feeling great. He had longer off than recommended by the vet (my pregnancy etc then too busy with young kids) I'm currently 70kgs so he is carrying about 16% of his bodyweight not including tack and he doesn't seem phased by that at all. I'm hoping to get the weight down a good bit but that's easier said than done.
If you are aiming for same weight ratio and you aren't looking to rush the rehab, I don't see why you should have any problems. Only time will tell. Best of luck.

Thank you for the feedback. It's keenly appreciated. Really glad that you were able to get your pony happily back into work. I am aiming for him to carry a total weight of 15% (though not including his bridle).

 

[ycbm]

Thank you for the feedback. It's keenly appreciated. Really glad that you were able to get your pony happily back into work. I am aiming for him to carry a total weight of 15% (though not including his bridle).

I think there's a very big difference between a pony recovering from an SI injury and a 16.2, and an equally big difference between the relative weight carrying ability of a pony compared to a 16.2 lightweight. Ponies don't seem to get SI injuries to the extent that horses do, they seem to have stronger backs.

Given that you sound as if you are describing a horse with a lovely stoic character who might not tell you that he is hurting, and that SI injuries tend to have little to show externally, I don't think I would be happy with more than 10% for the rider who initially backs and rides away. I'd be looking for someone 9 stone or under, total including saddle 60 kilos, to start him and get him up to an hour of work without issues. Is that an option for you?

.

 

[KittyinAus]

I think there's a very big difference between a pony recovering from an SI injury and a 16.2, and an equally big difference between the relative weight carrying ability of a pony compared to a 16.2 lightweight. Ponies don't seem to get SI injuries to the extent that horses do, they seem to have stronger backs.

Given that you sound as if you are describing a horse with a lovely stoic character who might not tell you that he is hurting, and that SI injuries tend to have little to show externally, I don't think I would be happy with more than 10% for the rider who initially backs and rides away. I'd be looking for someone 9 stone or under, total including saddle 60 kilos, to start him and get him up to an hour of work without issues. Is that an option for you?

.

There's nothing stoic about my awesome horse. He expresses himself very strongly. You had no way of knowing that. If my horse needs me to weigh 60kg while fully dressed and holding a fully mounted saddle, that's what he'll get. Thanks for the information. I have never ridden him. Neither has anyone else.

 

[Hallo2012]

if he's never been ridden, and only had a brief driven career that tells me he is VERY weak by nature and not suitable for ridden work of any form really.

which is sad, but just an honest observation that if he cannot even be a horse on his own without pain how can he be expected to carry anything

 

[KittyinAus]

if he's never been ridden, and only had a brief driven career that tells me he is VERY weak by nature and not suitable for ridden work of any form really.

which is sad, but just an honest observation that if he cannot even be a horse on his own without pain how can he be expected to carry anything

He's a Standardbred. He's never been ridden because he's never been saddle trained. His harness career was brief because he was a failure as a harness racing horse. He went to a re-homing centre after his racing career and stayed there for a very long time because most people who buy a Standardbred to retrain for ridden purposes generally don't want them that big. I bought him when he was seven. My life went to hell in a hand cart and that's why he still hasn't been saddle trained. The back specialist who saw him at the re-homing centre was of the opinion that worse case scenario that after rehabilitation he could do light trail riding and that's the worse case scenario. Had a local vet look at him. He tried to tell me that there was nothing wrong with the horse. He formed this opinion after getting me to trot the horse up on tarmac. My conclusion after reading the replies, is to really be thorough with my rehabilitation and to weigh as little as possible when it comes time to saddle train him. Cheers. Thanks for caring about my horse.

 

[Hallo2012]

He's a Standardbred. He's never been ridden because he's never been saddle trained. His harness career was brief because he was a failure as a harness racing horse. He went to a re-homing centre after his racing career and stayed there for a very long time because most people who buy a Standardbred to retrain for ridden purposes generally don't want them that big. I bought him when he was seven. My life went to hell in a hand cart and that's why he still hasn't been saddle trained. The back specialist who saw him at the re-homing centre was of the opinion that worse case scenario that after rehabilitation he could do light trail riding and that's the worse case scenario. Had a local vet look at him. He tried to tell me that there was nothing wrong with the horse. He formed this opinion after getting me to trot the horse up on tarmac. My conclusion after reading the replies, is to really be thorough with my rehabilitation and to weigh as little as possible when it comes time to saddle train him. Cheers. Thanks for caring about my horse.

i think you may be missing the point-he has done very little for whatever reason and is still sore.

how will doing more make him less sore?

 

[Bonnie Allie]

KittyinAus - where are you located in Australia? I have some ideas for you.

I have a horse with SI challenges that we have had success in rehabbing and is still under saddle at age 20. PM me.

 

[KittyinAus]

i think you may be missing the point-he has done very little for whatever reason and is still sore.

how will doing more make him less sore?

I think you missed the bit when a non-speacialist horse vet couldn't find anything wrong with him.

 

[KittyinAus]

KittyinAus - where are you located in Australia? I have some ideas for you.

I have a horse with SI challenges that we have had success in rehabbing and is still under saddle at age 20. PM me.

Thank you so very much.

 

[Dexter]

I think you missed the bit when a non-speacialist horse vet couldn't find anything wrong with him.

This is so confusing! You said he has SI issues and now he doesn't?

 

[ihatework]

What’s going on with his NF knee? Is it just a trick of the light?