How much is a reasonable rent for field and stables?

Arzada

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We have decided to be reasonable and send her the agreement but with it starting on December 1st so that she has time to decide what she wants to do. If she decides to leave, then we will overwinter the land and let it rest and then look for new tenants with a new rental charge, probably around £400 a month.

Does that sound reasonable? I know that whatever we say to her other than 'its ok, keep everything as it is' is going to be met with fire, and it has truly amazed me at how spot on a lot of you are at naming the rest of her behaviour!
Yes that's reasonable but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want anything to do with someone who
... went apoplectic, accusing us of being greedy and hating her and threatening us with legal action.
 

hollyandivy123

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You need to talk to a solicitor. ..but one option is to get an external person value the land for rent.


Taken from information of long rental renters . ...


"As touched upon above, tenants have a right to remain in the property for ‘fair rent’ if they took on the tenancy before 1989, but what rights will the new landlord have in this situation?

A landlord taking on a sitting tenant will have the right to review the fair rent every two years (or before if significant improvements have been made), but they won’t be able to conduct this review themselves. The review, instead, will be carried out by a rent officer."
 

Red-1

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If there is no agreement in place at present, I would hedge my bets and speak with a solicitor first. I would get an agreement in place and signed up, at the same rate, so that she will be agreeable to sign it.

The agreement should have a notice period for changing the price or for removing the livery. Once it is signed and in place, I would then enact that arrangement. I would have thought a month's notice?

Personally, I would use the signed agreement to remove her, due to the abysmal behaviour, although f it were a one off I would simply put the price to what was a reasonable going rate (would that be £400?).

ETA - cross posted with Hollyandivy, I would get this done too! Presumably your solicitor would advise and know a suitable valuer.
 

teddypops

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A sole use yard usually works out cheaper than a yard which charges by the horse. I personally think that £400 for only one stable and 8 acres is quite a high price but I suppose it depends on your area. I pay £300 per month for 6 stables, 20+ acres, a school, lake, workshop, tack and feed rooms plus lots of extra storage.
She should be poopicking and doing basic maintenance and she absolutely should not be rude to you, so there needs to be an agreement put in place for her or for future tenants.
 

HashRouge

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A sole use yard usually works out cheaper than a yard which charges by the horse. I personally think that £400 for only one stable and 8 acres is quite a high price but I suppose it depends on your area. I pay £300 per month for 6 stables, 20+ acres, a school, lake, workshop, tack and feed rooms plus lots of extra storage.
She should be poopicking and doing basic maintenance and she absolutely should not be rude to you, so there needs to be an agreement put in place for her or for future tenants.
Jesus your rent is a steal too. You'd pay at least double that round here, if not more.
 
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A sole use yard usually works out cheaper than a yard which charges by the horse. I personally think that £400 for only one stable and 8 acres is quite a high price but I suppose it depends on your area. I pay £300 per month for 6 stables, 20+ acres, a school, lake, workshop, tack and feed rooms plus lots of extra storage.
She should be poopicking and doing basic maintenance and she absolutely should not be rude to you, so there needs to be an agreement put in place for her or for future tenants.
wow where are you ?! In my area looking at £500 for 1 stable with 8 acres !
 

zaminda

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Personally after she had been rude she would be going, but what you can charge very much depends on area.
I used to rent a field from a farmer, with hard standing for a lorry, a water trough and a container for storage. No electric as such, but could run a cable if doing repairs on the lorry. It was approximately 15 acres. We paid £200 a month. He died, and his sister wanted to up the rent. Her estate agent suggested £20 per horse per week, I laughed and found a markedly better deal than I had had elsewhere.
I would not pay what you are suggesting for that particular set up.
 

TPO

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I wouldnt want to keep them as a livery.

May be worth speaking to the BHS (British Horse Society) legal helpline. Ots free if you are a gold member and you can sign up to pay £7 per month. This also gives you £30m public liability cover iirc.

Re your new agreement. I'd be careful saying that you will maintain the fences. Some horses can do a lot of damage to fences of for example they are cribbers or simply chew fences. You also get some bargey horses that literally throw their weight about including through fences.

It would be wise to walk and photograph the property with the new tenant before they take residence and then do quarterly checks and at that point if you decide something is west and test and are still happy to pay then so be it but if you find a lot of damage you can use the contract to get your tenant to pay for or do the repairs needed..
 
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Thanks again all, and if I was braver, I think I would give her notice to quit, but she's already struggling a lot with life and lets us know on a regular basis how mentally unwell she is, how poor she is and how much the livery and her horses mean to her. Which I know is not my problem, but still, kindness, but refusing to be taken completely for granted.

I have spoken with a land agent, at her request, and will charge her £22.50 per horse per week. As before, basic requirements for daily poo picking and regular field maintenance, which she doesn't already do. Changes due 1st December or she can leave before then.

Agreement in the post recorded delivery today, with a heads-up WhatsApp before it arrives.

I really appreciate all of your input, its been really interesting to see what your experiences and expectations are, and realising that what we have been living with for the past year is not usual!
 

MissTyc

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You sound like a nice person, OP! Ownership changes can be difficult for equestrian tenants. In my experience, they are always given notice to leave prior to the sale with a possible continuation negotiated with the new owner. After all, if you wanted to get your own horses, donkeys, goats, alpacas ... you'd be asking her to leave. She must have known this was a possibility from the moment the property went up for sale and has probably been worrying herself sick over it esp when nothing really changed for the first year, hence the explosive response: reaction to the beginning of the end. You might find that you are able to now start up a more professional relationship if she has some security that she isn't getting kicked out or priced out. Equally, she now knows you are onto her and you know what the land is worth, so hopefully will also take care of it better.
 
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Hi all,

Last message I promise. My husband send the tenant our 'heads up' text with the new rental price and the daily poo-picking expectation. Not got around yet today to posting the letter. Guess I won't need to do that then.

She has come back and said that she'll be off within 4 weeks, and said that the expectation to poo pick over 4 acres daily (horses switch between paddocks) is not the done thing and that you chain harrow to fertilise the ground which she says she has done. Once in 14 months.

Is that poo-picking expectation too much? and if you don't poo-pick, how often should you chain harrow?

Thanks again
 

TPO

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Hi all,

Last message I promise. My husband send the tenant our 'heads up' text with the new rental price and the daily poo-picking expectation. Not got around yet today to posting the letter. Guess I won't need to do that then.

She has come back and said that she'll be off within 4 weeks, and said that the expectation to poo pick over 4 acres daily (horses switch between paddocks) is not the done thing and that you chain harrow to fertilise the ground which she says she has done. Once in 14 months.

Is that poo-picking expectation too much? and if you don't poo-pick, how often should you chain harrow?

Thanks again
Its hard to explain!

If there are several paddocks then there is a way of horse keeping where the horses are rotated around the fields. So each paddock is rested for a substantial amount of time. During this time the field would be harrower and left.

If horses are out in one area and/or small areas there would be an expectation to poo pick to avoid a worm burden and to have something clean for them to eat

However it's your land and if you want it poo picked she should and she most definitely should leave the fields clean before she goes. Although don't hold your breath going by the sounds of her 😬
 

Apercrumbie

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Hi all,

Last message I promise. My husband send the tenant our 'heads up' text with the new rental price and the daily poo-picking expectation. Not got around yet today to posting the letter. Guess I won't need to do that then.

She has come back and said that she'll be off within 4 weeks, and said that the expectation to poo pick over 4 acres daily (horses switch between paddocks) is not the done thing and that you chain harrow to fertilise the ground which she says she has done. Once in 14 months.

Is that poo-picking expectation too much? and if you don't poo-pick, how often should you chain harrow?

Thanks again
There's different ways of doing things - what's right or wrong really depends on your setup and preference. Chain harrowing poo works well in a stable herd (ie. not having horses come and leave who might introduce disease) who are regularly worm-tested on very large, well-drained and not overgrazed fields. I'd personally chain harrow more often than once a year in that case, but not in the depths of winter to avoid churning the mud.

However, few of us have the luxury of acres and acres per horse, so poo picking becomes a necessity. I choose to do it daily to keep on top of it, however some I know only have the time to do it at weekends. Insisting on daily poo-picking might be overly restrictive to someone's routine, however if it isn't done daily you run the risk of it not being done enough or even at all.
 

SEL

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You can poo pick for 3 horses. I do it daily. If you stay on top of it then its straightforward but becomes a nightmare if you leave it. I may not poo pick in the depths of winter if the barrow is going to sink (last year.....) in which case they horses need to be pulled off the fields as soon as feasible in spring, harrowed and rested to recover.

If she was really interested in maintaining your fields she would be discussing with you if she could do catch up poo picking at weekends, harrow after winter - lots of constructive and feasible options out there. Ultimately I think you have a tenant who is upset that she is going to have to pay more and work harder. I think you'll find better tenants who will take better care of your land.
 
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You can poo pick for 3 horses. I do it daily. If you stay on top of it then its straightforward but becomes a nightmare if you leave it. I may not poo pick in the depths of winter if the barrow is going to sink (last year.....) in which case they horses need to be pulled off the fields as soon as feasible in spring, harrowed and rested to recover.

If she was really interested in maintaining your fields she would be discussing with you if she could do catch up poo picking at weekends, harrow after winter - lots of constructive and feasible options out there. Ultimately I think you have a tenant who is upset that she is going to have to pay more and work harder. I think you'll find better tenants who will take better care of your land.
Thank you - being so green with all this I want to make sure I'm not being unreasonable, and you are right, if she'd come and talked to us we could have reached an agreement. Thank you for advising as to extra options, will be writing that down!
 
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Thank you - being so green with all this I want to make sure I'm not being unreasonable, and you are right, if she'd come and talked to us we could have reached an agreement. Thank you for advising as to extra options, will be writing that down!
I insisted that liveries (when I had them) had to ensure the poo picking was completely done at a weekend, so field completely cleared. if they were able to do it in the week (sometimes difficult in winter) then that was appreciated.
Some owners will pay others to come in and poo pick.
Yes I do mine daily, but I wouldn't contract a livery to have to clear it daily.
 

windand rain

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I poo pick 5 every day rarely miss even in snow as hate the resultant mess if left I don't think it unreasonably harsh to expect it poo picked daily when possible but kept clean by the end of the weekend at worst. The land will be ruined quickly with lawns and roughs of coarse inedible grass in small acreage. I insist on poo picking for this reason. I do harrow and roll when restoring grass and pay for a contractor to spray for ragwort annually as before I do get a little bit of fertiliser from the landlord but I spread it or pay said contractor to. Up to you how you want your land managed she obviously doesn't want to take on that land management role so I am sure you will easily find someone who will
 

GrassChop

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I've been through stages with the field I rent with not poo picking due to the crows breaking it up when I fed linseed so didn't really need to but the land owner didn't question me about it and is happy for me to manage how I want to and when, even if it does look untidy for a week if I haven't had time but of course, if she required me to do it still, I wouldn't have a problem but she trusts that it is looked after anyway. Having said that, it isn't at her home or something she'd need to look at every day. However, I would always make sure well used areas or places that were visible were clear so it always looks tidy but I do poo pick everyday now as it does look unsightly when the birds haven't spread it around!
The only thing she does require is making sure the bottoms of the shelters are clear to avoid rotting. I also used to poo pick 4 horses daily over 6 acres with no issues so it is easily done but doing it on the weekend might be harder as you'd have to tip a couple of wheelbarrows most likely but if she'd have preferred that, it would be her choice if she'd wanted the harder work! Shame she couldn't reach an agreement with you though. Also, the rent your offering is amazing for all of that! That would be about £600pcm around here I think!
 

Auslander

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You're well rid of her. I laughed when I saw the bit about not wanting to poo pick 4 acres! My mares field alone is 4 acres, with 5 on it, and they are absolute poo machines. I can clear their paddock in 30 minutes.
I don't poo pick in winter, and get the fields harrowed and rolled as soon as the land is dry enough - then I poo pick every other day minimum. Fresh poo just sours the grass - I'd only use it as fertiliser after it had been taken off the field and rotted in piles for a year.
 

Amymay

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Hi all,

Last message I promise. My husband send the tenant our 'heads up' text with the new rental price and the daily poo-picking expectation. Not got around yet today to posting the letter. Guess I won't need to do that then.

She has come back and said that she'll be off within 4 weeks, and said that the expectation to poo pick over 4 acres daily (horses switch between paddocks) is not the done thing and that you chain harrow to fertilise the ground which she says she has done. Once in 14 months.

Is that poo-picking expectation too much? and if you don't poo-pick, how often should you chain harrow?

Thanks again
I certainly wouldn’t poo pick four acres, and would be harrowing and resting.
 

Polos Mum

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Irrelevant now as she has given notice and doesn't sound like the sort of person you'd want in your home anyway. But

OP how does the grass / fields look? - if they are bare in places and covered in weeds in others and generally look terrible then her maintenance wasn't working.

If they look OK then maybe she has a point. Different ground copes really differently and some horses wear ground much more than others. 4 barefoot 14.2's in hard work will cause a lot less damage than 4 17hh fully shod horses that are left to their own mischief most of the time !!

I poo pick every 2-3 days in summer as my fatties are in smaller paddocks - I don't in winter at all. I harrow that at the end of the winter, then get sheep on then rest for 4-5 months. That suits my land and my horses - it wouldn't work for everyone by any means.

Sadly there's no one size fits all so it's really hard to set detailed rules.

For your new person I would meet them and speak to them and get a sense of whether they have pride or are just looking for a cheap deal. We rent some space and too many people think renting their own yard is a cheap option - it's not so steer clear of anyone with a tonne of horses who goes on about how much they will save on a private rented yard !
 

Lipglosspukka

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It's really not relevant. Poo picking for 3 horses over 4 acres isn't a massive ask. Most people would get that done within 30-40 minutes tops.

If you want it poo picked then insist it's poo picked. You aren't being unreasonable. Don't let her manipulate you into thinking otherwise.
 
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Irrelevant now as she has given notice and doesn't sound like the sort of person you'd want in your home anyway. But

OP how does the grass / fields look? - if they are bare in places and covered in weeds in others and generally look terrible then her maintenance wasn't working.

The fields are lumpy and hard to walk on (could just be normal fields that aren't garden :p), covered in docks, nettles, weeds and piles of poo. The ragwort is kept on top of, but I think that's because it poses a threat to the horses rather than to look after the field. There are worn parts where the horses seem to favour, but other bits where the grass is really quite long. In fact, in one field I'm not sure if there is actually more weeds than grass! I know that I can't expect rolling parkland, but it did look like that for a couple of weeks after it was harrowed in March!
 
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