How much is she worth?

[FlyingCircus]

I'm thinking of insuring my mare for LOU and so will need to insure her for her current value. I'm hopeless as she is priceless to me, so could do with some help with what ballpark figures I'm looking at. Need to understand also if it is worth it for her value vs the premium that will be charged.

NOTE: THIS IS NOT AN AD

14.2 hh 5 year old registered Welsh D
Palomino
Mare
Well put together, though abit long in the back. Clean legs.
Started under saddle this year but working nicely in a baby outline in walk and trot. Canter is WIP! But has lovely ground covering paces.
Good jump, lots of power! Needs to work out how to utilise that though. Only ever jumped twice.
Will hack on the buckle in open new forest, walk trot and canter past loose dogs, deer, cows, ponies. Not phased by traffic. Doesn't hot up in company.
Not big fan of going out alone yet, but is baby insecurity rather than naughtiness and is coming along nicely.
Regularly handled by my non horsey bf
No vices on ground or under saddle

Overall an absolute gem in my eyes. But interested in opinions. Also interested to know how you guys justify your LOU value usually? Do you have to get someone independent to verify or do they just do this in the event LOU is required? Have only ever insured for vets fees.

 

[shortstuff99]

I believe normally for a loss of use it is the value that you paid for the horse originally, if you believe that she has significantly increased in value from that then you have to show them how/why.

 

[Myloubylou]

I paid £4K last year for 8 year old 14.1 black welsh d mare who’d done pony club 90cm jumping, horse ball, xc. Hacks really sensibly, goes out on own but bit of a wimp. Had to improve manners on the ground but nice natured

 

[milliepops]

it may be a bit soon to consider this, as you can't insure for what you hope the horse will eventually do, only the level it's currently at.
IME it's very expensive cover and you may require a new 5* vetting.

 

[milliepops]

(unrelated to your question but I wonder if LOU is the reason why people complain about insurance companies dictating treatment options? IIRC you have to go through all possible treatment options before you can claim LOU.)

 

[Jules111]

If you've bought her fairly recently her value (for insurance purposes) is usually the amount you paid (as shown on your receipt). If you feel she has significantly increased in value you'll need to show evidence, eg has she now qualified for HOYS so worth considerably more.

Be careful because any previous vet treatment could decrease the value, so if the previous owner had xrays that showed a problem but you bought her anyway it could cause the value to be lower than purchase price or even mean the LOU wouldn't be paid out. It's a bit of a minefield and often it's very difficult to get to the loss of use stage, it's easy to run out of the vet's fees covered before reaching the conclusion that there is no prospect of a recovery or return to the previous work. Insurance companies have been known to insist on further diagnostics or treatments to avoid the LOU pay out.

 

[FlyingCircus]

I bought her virtually untouched, so hopefully her value has gone up since then haha!

Never so much as looked at premiums involved so would be interesting to do the maths. As you say, may not be worth it.

 

[FlyingCircus]

Thanks guys, interesting RE the insurance dictating treatment as I would not like that very much! Sounds like best option is to just carry on saving into my emergency fund. I've had some opinions from people who know her that she's worth in 4-5k range currently and I don't have that kind of money to replace her (hence buying younster and putting hrs in) so thought it was an interesting option to look into.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Never, ever, ever would I insure for LOU simply because you are then beholden to the insurance company's interpretation of the BEVA guidelines for having a horse PTS or forfeit the LOU payment that you have paid expensive premiums for in good faith.

 

[milliepops]

you should probably chat this over with some ins companies before deciding but I think it's more useful for someone who spends out £££ on a horse already competing at a level, who wants to make sure that something doesn't develop that makes the horse unable to compete at that level from then on. I think it would be harder to claim on a horse that's at the start of its career because you don't have a proven level of work to refer back to.

 

[FlyingCircus]

you should probably chat this over with some ins companies before deciding but I think it's more useful for someone who spends out £££ on a horse already competing at a level, who wants to make sure that something doesn't develop that makes the horse unable to compete at that level from then on. I think it would be harder to claim on a horse that's at the start of its career because you don't have a proven level of work to refer back to.

That's a good point, until she has some points of reference and has been out and done a bit more I suppose some of her value does account for "potential".

Food for thought! Especially on the insurance company dictating treatments and PTS guidelines. As I'd not keep a horse suffering just to jump through hoops.

 

[TheHairyOne]

LOU is different from loss of horse (either theft/accident/straying/pts on beva guidelines). Loss of horse may have an arguement about the reason for pts and value of horse, but LOU is an utter minefield with even more loopholes. If the horse is capable of doing something you are not likely to get a full payout on it and to attempt it you need a good vet on your side.

I speak as someone who supported a friend with loss of horse after a field escape and an accident (nfu) and as someone who attempted a LOU claim for my own horse that I just gave up with in the end - and this was with a generally good company who has paid out all other claims over the years without issue. Will never pay for that on a policy again.

 

[eggs]

Loss of Use is for if the horse is no longer able to do what it is insured for and is more common for competition horses eg. medium level dressage horse no longer able to compete dressage to that level. 'Potential' will not be considered.

Personally I don't have LOU even for the horses competing to a high level as it is very expensive although they are insured for vet fees. The only person I know who made a LOU claim had to jump through hoops to get a payout.

 

[Polos Mum]

I don't think you could LOU insure her for jumping as currently she doesn't have a track record of doing that.
Anything above £5k (most companies) they will want a 5 stage vet cert to insure - so keep that in mind.

Maybe give a couple of the more reputable companies a call for a quote for a £4k low level all rounder LOU policy - I would suspect the premium will be close to 4 figures (£1k ish per year) if that is prohibitive then you can think of alternatives.
Bog standard vets fees cover for that is £600-700 and I'd guess LOU would close to double the premium.

 

[Jango]

I think it depends on your policy, and potential is covered sometimes! I got loss of use from kbis on my mare for hind suspensory issues and associated bony changes, she was insured as LOU potential to do BE90 and up to med dressage. She was only 5, had done 2 dressage tests and no competitive jumping. I didn't have to do all treatment options, I did have to get her branded. She's now happily hacking and popping logs with a friend and I got 65% of her value. Its more for competition horses who due to injury/issues then can't jump/dressage, if you said you hack and the horse has an injury which means it can just hack in walk you wouldn't be covered so I don't think it's the best idea in your circumstances.

 

[SusieT]

At her stage, as an unproven youngser I'd say 1.5-2K if she is pretty and well put together- you may need an instructor to prove she is worth that. If you were buying her a lot of what you are listing as positives is opinion rather than actual definites if you know what I mean.

 

[JanetGeorge]

Some good replies here and you have probably decided. LOU is a right PITA - I wouldn't touch it. Although the only horse I insured WAS the most expensive mare I'd EVER bought - just into 5 figures. Her left fore was 'excluded' from the policy, of course, as it had a small splint (which disappeared with no treatment, before she had her first foal.) I cancelled the policy as soon as she arrived safely from Ireland. She's 20 now - and her only 'LOU' is down to me retiring from breeding - she is 20 now but would have easily had a couple more. Hell, her mother is 25 now with virtually no front teeth left - but neither of them would have got me back a fraction of their insurance if I'd kept it on.

 

[FlyingCircus]

Yes I think it's probably not the way to go!

Maybe I'll revisit in a few years as my trainer believes she has good potential in the dressage arena - so we'll see how far we can get, haha.

 

[JanetGeorge]

At her stage, as an unproven youngser I'd say 1.5-2K if she is pretty and well put together- you may need an instructor to prove she is worth that. If you were buying her a lot of what you are listing as positives is opinion rather than actual definites if you know what I mean.

lol, you obviously haven't tried getting an Irish Draught lately: the going price for an ID filly, barely backed (but not wrecked in the process) is £5,500 - £6,500 - unless it's in N-W Wales and breeder is low on haylage. Of course, some of them ake better hunters or eventers than dressage horses.

 

[FlyingCircus]

lol, you obviously haven't tried getting an Irish Draught lately: the going price for an ID filly, barely backed (but not wrecked in the process) is £5,500 - £6,500 - unless it's in N-W Wales and breeder is low on haylage. Of course, some of them ake better hunters or eventers than dressage horses.

Haha yeah, people are paying serious money for nice youngsters at the moment!

 

[WelshD]

As some people say above to insure for LOU the horse needs to have a use. Eg if insuring a 20K show horse it may get blemished and no longer be suitable for showing thus a chunk of its value is lost - it could go on to be a dressage horse afterwards but as a show horse its career would be over and so it may be worth only 5K- that's the sort of situation where LOU comes in to play.

Value for loss of horse is probably what you'd need at this stage and yes you can up it from what you paid provided you can back up why you think there is an increase

Your pony may have a great career ahead of her but she is essentially still an unfinished project and so I would think a value of £2-2500 would be where I would pitch her

 

[gingergreg]

Haha yeah, people are paying serious money for nice youngsters at the moment!

Most definitely! I've just bought a *potential* show cob for £3.5k, quality doesn't come cheap sadly.

 

[Goldenstar]

My one experience of LOU was with Fatty and it was very positive .
he had a serious heart problem the insurance company paid to have taken to the Dick where two specialist vets examined him and pronounced him dangerous to ride with poor prognosis for recovery .
they paid out 80% for insured value and the owner gave him to me .
We did get him right we where lucky and he’s still with me now .

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Never, ever, ever would I insure for LOU simply because you are then beholden to the insurance company's interpretation of the BEVA guidelines for having a horse PTS or forfeit the LOU payment that you have paid expensive premiums for in good faith.

Not necessarily.

I had a LOU paid out on my wb who has KS

We didn't do the surgery as both the vet and surgeon agreed that it wouldn't make any difference to her behaviour as it had been there so long and she should be retired.

They both wrote to the insurance company stating this and I was paid out LOU and she was retired.