How much more bad luck can Piggy have?

LEC

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There has to be a point where it is no longer bad luck........
Once is bad luck
Twice is a coincidence
Three times is poor management.
 

stroppymare153

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ooh!! :eek:

potentially a bit harsh - could have overreached, tweaked something in the field, got a nasty fly bite on his withers - any number of things outside human control.
 

Fanatical

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There has to be a point where it is no longer bad luck........
Once is bad luck
Twice is a coincidence
Three times is poor management.
You are not the first to say/ think that! Unfortunately.

The horses that she is usually selected on are up and coming young horses. You do wonder if they are being pushed/ rushed before they are strong enough.

However, I am sure her time will come. She is SUCH a stylish rider.
 
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Addicted to Hunting

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Must be gutting for her, and LEC feel that's a little harsh as most of us know it can be hard enough keeping one horse sound and on the road at lower levels, will be even harder at a higher level with more horses, and if there's any doubt it's better for the horse long term not to compete. Am pleased to we that Pippas back on the team though.
 

Bearsmum

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You are not the first to say/ think that! Unfortunately.

The horses that she is usually selected on are up and coming young horses. You do wonder if they are being pushed/ rushed before they are strong enough.

However, I am sure her time will come. She is SUCH a stylish rider.
Sorry - but Jakata is 15, hardly a baby & the others are over 10 so not still developing physically.

I agree feels a bit harsh to suggest poor management when you don't know the details. Good luck Pig, it will all come together again.
 

kit279

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She is a very good rider and has impressive form in getting the best out of her horses - sort of an improver if that makes sense - but I agree that it is bad luck and the sort of bad luck that probably prompts a fair bit of navel gazing as to what could be improved to stop it happening. However, it's madness to think that with all the input from folk such as Yogi and the rest of the British team trainers, that this hasn't been looked at fairly extensively, especially when Piggy is always getting selected but has been unfortunate enough to miss out on actually going on a number of occasions. The only other thought was that perhaps some of the breeds of horses that Piggy has been riding have had a little less TB than others in them and maybe that has predisposed them to more stresses and strains that a full blood horse?

As an unrelated aside, I think one of the really interesting things over the last few years has been looking at WFP and Andrew Nicholson's young horses, both of whom have been impressive in keeping their horses on the road soundness wise and the horses are always very fit. Both of these riders have quite an eye for how to get and keep a horse fit and other riders have taken quite a bit of input from the training methods of racehorses in terms of long term soundness and fitness.
 

christine48

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Unfortunately eventing is tough on the horses and many say 'its not IF they break, but WHEN'. Also a lot of the pro riders have a vast number of horses, and are away a lot, therefore I wonder if they are able to keep a finger on the pulse so to speak. They need a good back up squad to do the canter work & keep an eye out for potential leg problems etc.
 

Bubblegum

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There has to be a point where it is no longer bad luck........
Once is bad luck
Twice is a coincidence
Three times is poor management.
What an awful thing to say! So many assumptions!!!
I hope you never have the misfortune to be in a similar situation and then read a post like this!

I am really sorry to hear this news, and as someone who has also had 'bad luck' with no poor management this year... well I sincerely wish Piggy all the very best.
 

HammieHamlet

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Agree 100% with Bubblegum! Really hope that Piggy doesn't read this thread as it would certainly be a massive kick in the teeth for someone who is probably already absolutely devastated!!

I would have thought that given the bad luck she's had in the past, she'd probably be even more careful/ vigilant to avoid anything happening again.

Poor girl :(
 

Eventer96

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LEC- I'm sure you aren't entirely bothered but I'm afraid I have to disagree with your post. There are so many extraneous variables with horses that it is entirely unfair to suggest that poor management has led Piggy's current situation- of course, it is a possibility. Piggy is an incredibly talented rider and one whom I'm spoken to personally, she's down to Earth and actually took an interest in how my day had gone! I'm sure after the devastating situation she found herself last year would ensure that she'd go that extra mile to ensure that her horses are properly looked after and wrapped up in cotton wool! She wouldn't be receiving rides from owners if there was evidently poor management. Hate the way assumptions are made when we are entirely clueless about the situation- nor is it our place to really comment upon the situation. :mad:

I really hope that Piggy's had her run of bad luck (damn, she's had a lot of it!) and that things start to look up for her in the future. She's one of my favourite riders and hope she can continue strong through all the knockdowns she receives!
 

LEC

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Ok just looking at pure facts.
West Side 3rd at Boekelo (out)
Jakata (out)
Flying Finish 4th at 4* (done one event after 2012 off)
DHI Topper (most of last year and this year off)
Tinkas Time (injured)
 

Bubblegum

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Ok just looking at pure facts.
West Side 3rd at Boekelo (out)
Jakata (out)
Flying Finish 4th at 4* (done one event after 2012 off)
DHI Topper (most of last year and this year off)
Tinkas Time (injured)
Flying finish...isn't that Lucindas horse?
 

philamena

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Do you mean Flying Machine?

To be fair, clusters of anything can happen giving the impression of causation when it's just that proper old scientific phenomenon: ***** happens...
 
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Although LEC was quite blunt another 2 4 star horses that rapidly broke were Some Day Soon and Paris I think if you look at how William produces his horses through the grades at 1 days and how Piggy does they are very different. Is it really necessary to gallop flat out on hard ground for a one day win when you are looking to go to championships, I was previously offered one hers and looked at its record to see many OI wins but also lots of galloping miles at a young age. If that is how she likes to do it then that is fine it's just not to everyone's tastes or ideas
 

Lolo

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There has to be a point where it is no longer bad luck........
Once is bad luck
Twice is a coincidence
Three times is poor management.
Seeing as you're speculating in a way which has made you previously slam this forum, I'm not sure why you felt the need to post this.

It's more bad luck in the timing of the injuries. If it had been a different time, Tinks could have had a week off and no one would have known. As it was, she couldn't jeopardise a team so is now in this position meaning more people will turn and tut. She has a very experienced team behind her too... I think those with more horses can juggle them round a bit more, hiding time off well.
 

fabregas

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Personally, I am absolutely gutted to hear this news. As an aspiring Young Event Rider, I have enormous respect for Piggy as a Rider and a Horsewoman. In my experience, she is extremely professional and always has her horses best interests at heart.

I think she is a class act and it's a shame that some people are so judgemental when they aren't in her position.

From my own experience, horses are heart-breakers and you can't judge a situation unless you know the full story.

However, I am sure that Piggy's professionalism will shine through once again and the fact that she has to deal with yet another knock only makes me respect her even more. In 10 years time, if I have achieved a fraction of the success that she has enjoyed I think I will be pretty happy.
 

Ditchjumper2

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Sorry but I am with LEC on this one. There are reasons why horses were taken away from her previously by a local owner. You reap what you sow. Hammer them round 1 DE for glory wins and it will come back to haunt you later on.

You only have to look at the "older generation" of eventers whose horses stay sound for years. They know that there are no short cuts to achieve a talanted and sound horse that will last.
 

ElleJS

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I think yes LEC was a wee bit blunt but there is truth in it.
Piggy is an incredible rider absolutely no doubt about that but there does seem something amiss in her team that allow so many horses to break. There are more horses you can add to that list as well... It may not even be Piggy herself but maybe a groom misses something the day after a show or an owner demands they run for the win at ODEs. Feel so sorry for her though but you'd definitely be reviewing your system to stop it happening.

It rarely happens with William for e.g but then look at his ODE form.... He gets a hell of a lot of time penalties, he retires horses after a few jumps to save them for the big events and then he wins at the big 3 days. All his young horses accumulate a lot of time pens. (Althougn his skills mean he can pull of a 12 dressage and a d/c and still win with lots of time!!!)
 

Dusty85

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They must have a lot of pressure on them though, this is their job. They have to be seen out running their horses for them to gain experience/go up the levels, then they are seen winning competitions and therefore get more notoriety/horses sent to them. And they may have events that they have to prepare for like 4*s, europeans etc

Im not saying its right to run a horse at top level on hard ground, but I can understand why they do it.
 

DonkeyClub

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You've got to ask, what do people like WFP and AN do to keep their horses fit and sound& at top level, year after year after year? Many other riders horses you never hear about them again.

Apparently WFP has a whopping six month, very slow, fittening program. Having said that I saw one of his racehorses at a hunter chase once& it was very rotund whilst everything else was like a greyhound . I think less fast work/ more slow work must be the key?
 

stroppymare153

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maybe the very top riders like AN & WFP can afford to tell their owners that they will not run promising horses flat out to get the 'one day glory wins' whereas those not quite at that level / stage of their careers still have to listen to owners demands - and obey.


Also - there was one year when WFP was not selected for Europeans - none of his horses had been well placed simply because they all had masses of time penalties instead of going for the wins - coincidence?? doubt it!
 

Rum Tum

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Riders like William and ANdrew are in a completely different situation to Piggy. She is effectively trying to break into the established team, so needs to get results to catch the selectors eye, hence a very fast run at Barbury. William, on the other hand, ran all his top horses in the 2*, very steadily. But he was always going to get selected anyway. If Piggy had done the same on Tinka's Time, would she have been selected?
 

Foxford

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I think yes LEC was a wee bit blunt but there is truth in it.
Agreed that's how it appears to a casual observer (like myself). I really hope she gets to a major championship soon though, as she is an incredibly talented rider.

Management of event horses is more fine art than science and as a one horse owner, I am forced to commit to a conservative fittening regime to preserve my ride! I spent years defending the slow production of my horse from others who told me I should be doing x y z with him by now... Unfortunately that kind of attitude is endemic in the horse world.
 

MiaBella

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If you are WFP you can afford to take your time, produce the horses as you want and if owners walk away then you can find new ones.

For the majority of others, owners want their horses to win, people want to buy horses that are winning, people want lessons with someone who is winning. I remember Bill Levitt I think writing an article a year or so after BE had all results online saying how it affected his business, that people were looking up results and not wanting a horse that had x time pens cross country (so not even coming to see it, where he could tell them that it was a super horse that could easily get the time but he was producing it for top levels thus taking it easy a the low levels).

There are a number of pro event riders (and other pro riders in different disciplines) who have had owners take their horses to other riders who will get the results - its a tough act, juggling what is best for the horse's long term development versus keeping owners happy.

Can't comment on Piggy's management of her horses but she came across very well on the 'Getting to Greenwich' programme last year and I really felt for her when both horses were unable to go.
 

LEC

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Piggy has been on teams before and is on all the lottery funding so actually she is not missing out financially or from the selectors not looking at her. In fact she is in a more luxurious position than others of being able to take her time, have the selectors ear and then be able to back it up by getting excellent results. Piggy also has very long term supporters as her owners so again should be able to run a system like other riders who have a proven record at keeping horses sound long term.

I am worried about the strength in depth for GBR eventing in that we are sending Pippa Funnell on what is frankly a 2nd rate horse. Pippa is effective and solid but the horse would never even have been considered 2 years ago on its current form.
 

Jo_x

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Also - there was one year when WFP was not selected for Europeans - none of his horses had been well placed simply because they all had masses of time penalties instead of going for the wins - coincidence?? doubt it!
Perhaps he felt the horses weren't ready for championship competition and thought there was no point running them hard to try? Admittedly I have no idea which year this was or which horses, so could be chatting utter ****!
 
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