How much would you pay for a horse that has a bronk in it?

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undertheweather

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Just curious,
We have one for sale at work and I think the price is realistic (Don't worry, not advertised anywhere atm so you won't go to look at a horse and find out it's our bronker!)

How much for a very smart looking 15.3hh WB 6yo mare, with lovely paces, 110% in traffic, jumps anything SJ/XC - never stops, a fabulous hunter who goes all day, easily be a field masters horse as we hunt with the draghounds and a smaller pack, scope to burn, easy to do in every way apart from occasionally she will bronk when you get on and this has been an issue from day 1 when she first had a saddle on. To be fair to the mare her teeth were a train wreck and back was sore, all of which have been fixed now (professional she was sent to to be broken was convinced it was naughtiness and poo-pooed the idea of getting back done, and dentist turned out to be a hoax). She has had full work up from the vet also who could find nothing wrong.

She will now very occasionally go to bronk when you get on, and if you just flex her to one side and move her sideways and forwards she will get over it. If she's had a week or two off she might try and have you. *touch wood* so far she's only had me off once and that was this Sunday where she had been off work for 10 days and only out for an hour/two in the day.

So she has the bronking and possibly her size against her.

Ball park figures guys?
 
Think she would still be worth whatever the going rate is for a hunter of that stamp. Nearly all horses have a quirk of some kind. I think if it's as manageable as you say,it is just a case of being honest with potential purchasers. She sounds like my horse I just call it cold-backed. Give him 10 days off and he is a nightmare!
 
I guess if I were looking for a smart looking horse myself who was 100% as this mare is without her issue I would be expecting to pay in the region of £6000 and being such a good hunter.

I guess she is worth that, but obviously it is what someone will pay.
 
If she is really special, the odd bucking thing would not put off a decent rider. There are loads of ways it can be managed and ultimately I do not really believe in quirks but I do believe in sensible management of athletic horses.

If she is realistically just a nice RC horse then this market would be put off by this behaviour because often they do not have the tools for the right management.

As for a hunter - the size might put people off as they generally look for taller horses in the hunting field but I do not believe its a deal breaker.
 
Agree with LEC - it depends as much on the target market as the mare. If she's special someone will pay but the potential market will be smaller because of that habit. A professional or good amateur won't mind but then she has to be of that calibre and they will be mindful of the fact it might affect resale if she turns out not to be.

I'm afraid I can't agree it's a minor 'quirk' though. It doesn't matter if a horse only does it occasionally, it only takes once for someone to get hurt.
 
From a slightly different angle it might depend on what facilities a potential purchaser had access to. Probably not the sort of horse you would want if you had to mount on the yard for example. Being bucked off in the arena is one thing, but onto to concrete is quite another, so it might deter those people......
 
LEC said:
If she is really special, the odd bucking thing would not put off a decent rider. There are loads of ways it can be managed and ultimately I do not really believe in quirks but I do believe in sensible management of athletic horses.

If she is realistically just a nice RC horse then this market would be put off by this behaviour because often they do not have the tools for the right management.
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TarrSteps said:
Agree with LEC - it depends as much on the target market as the mare. If she's special someone will pay but the potential market will be smaller because of that habit. A professional or good amateur won't mind but then she has to be of that calibre and they will be mindful of the fact it might affect resale if she turns out not to be.
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Agree with the above - and stress, don't make her too cheap, you will attract the wrong kind of buyers! You need to market her really well (Big advert in H&H with great photo) and hope that a talented amateur or pro comes along who won't mind naughtiness, if she can make up for it in talent. As we all know, a lot of the 'greats' have been very 'quirky' indeed!!
 
pistolpete said:
Think she would still be worth whatever the going rate is for a hunter of that stamp. Nearly all horses have a quirk of some kind.
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I disagree, I wouldnt expect many horses to "bronc", ok have the odd buck although even that I think is unacceptable. Yours sounds like its cold backed? My grey used to be like this, some days he'd be fine, other days as soon as my butt touched the saddle he'd explode and have me off. But he actually grew out of it thankfully. However, at that time I would definately have sold him at a discount because of it (had I been selling) even though he was perfect otherwise. Yes, all horses have quirks but quirks to me aren't broncing!
 
Agree with LEC and TarrSteps. Saffy will buck from exuberance and I would choose to price her lower so that I could choose the best home to manage that, as best I could, despite her talent.

If the horse is realistically at best a top end RC horse then I'd expect the bucking to have a very significant impact on value.
 
MagicMelon said:
I disagree, I wouldnt expect many horses to "bronc", ok have the odd buck although even that I think is unacceptable. Yours sounds like its cold backed? My grey used to be like this, some days he'd be fine, other days as soon as my butt touched the saddle he'd explode and have me off. But he actually grew out of it thankfully. However, at that time I would definately have sold him at a discount because of it (had I been selling) even though he was perfect otherwise. Yes, all horses have quirks but quirks to me aren't broncing!
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I have to agree that I don't class broncing when you get on as a quirk and I do think it would affect the price - admittedly if you are talking about an advanced eventer that is a bit different, but at the level that it is, there are many out there that offer the same as yours that don't bronc and therefore this has to affect the price, even if it is only slight.

I agree with the point made of don't price too low as you'll get the wrong buyers and also have to be absolutely honest with any potential purchaser.

Sorry hope doesn't sound too harsh just my opinion!!
 
The bronking itself wouldn't put me off if I already owned and knew the horse, but viewing an unknown horse that bronks would.

The 'vet couldn't find anything wrong' could be translated to mean 'the vet hasn't found what's wrong'.

Exuberant bucks are different, expressing an objection to being mounted would bother me.
 
I had one of these vet could not find anything he remained an occasional ejector seat ride he was by master imp so Ithought well they are often naughty and got on with it .
Eventually a small area of swelling appeared on the side of his spine very shallow and difficult to see it appeared and disappeared I took him down the vets with the intruction to please X-ray there .
He had kissing spines type condition it had brewed all that time if you asked me to bet something is wrong with the horse the vet simply has not found it yet.
And no I would buy it at any price.
 
I think you price according to the horse and allow the buyer to negotiate down on the basis of the bronc, otherwise you will price too low and either get no one looking or the wrong sort. The question however was how much would I pay and the answer for me personally would be nothing - I wouldn't buy a horse that broncs although I would buy a horse that put in the odd buck here and there. Don't be put off by that, I'm just too old for that sort of thing (and probably not good enough) - I'm sure there are plenty out there (and on here) that wouldn't be concerned. I'm sure you have a pretty good idea of the horses value already so go with it but be honest when people ring up.
 
I would not even ring the vendor and waste their time, purely because I am an amateur rider and could not cope with a broncing horse and I have no wish to find myself in a wheelchair.

However, a mega talented horse that throws the odd bronc, would not phase a professional competitive rider, who has all the tools and facilities to deal with the horse.

The key would be ensuring the right market is targeted and being able to recognise a 'all the gear, no idea' purchaser before you let anyone try the horse.
 
MagicMelon said:
I disagree, I wouldnt expect many horses to "bronc", ok have the odd buck although even that I think is unacceptable. Yours sounds like its cold backed? My grey used to be like this, some days he'd be fine, other days as soon as my butt touched the saddle he'd explode and have me off. But he actually grew out of it thankfully. However, at that time I would definately have sold him at a discount because of it (had I been selling) even though he was perfect otherwise. Yes, all horses have quirks but quirks to me aren't broncing!
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Agree ^^^ OP I would say your mare is either hormonal or cold backed for some reason..
 
LEC said:
If she is really special, the odd bucking thing would not put off a decent rider. There are loads of ways it can be managed and ultimately I do not really believe in quirks but I do believe in sensible management of athletic horses.

If she is realistically just a nice RC horse then this market would be put off by this behaviour because often they do not have the tools for the right management.

As for a hunter - the size might put people off as they generally look for taller horses in the hunting field but I do not believe its a deal breaker.
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I think the real issue here is going to be attracting the right kind of home: she is a top level RC horse/more, and needs to be all or nothing in the management way: either she wants to be just a hack which when you get on her on the concrete/hacking mounting block she doesn't worry/get tense and there's no chance of her bronking. I do honestly believe it is an issue stemming from breaking unfortunately.

TarrSteps said:
Agree with LEC - it depends as much on the target market as the mare. If she's special someone will pay but the potential market will be smaller because of that habit. A professional or good amateur won't mind but then she has to be of that calibre and they will be mindful of the fact it might affect resale if she turns out not to be.

I'm afraid I can't agree it's a minor 'quirk' though. It doesn't matter if a horse only does it occasionally, it only takes once for someone to get hurt.
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The amount that the boss gets for her isn't a particularly big issue - it's 100% not about getting the most we can, I was curious though as to whether people would come back on here and say that people would only pay bare minimum for a horse that would have this quirk, in which case it would be even more awkward when it comes to advertising. I

Gerdy said:
Agree with the above - and stress, don't make her too cheap, you will attract the wrong kind of buyers! You need to market her really well (Big advert in H&H with great photo) and hope that a talented amateur or pro comes along who won't mind naughtiness, if she can make up for it in talent. As we all know, a lot of the 'greats' have been very 'quirky' indeed!!
Click to expand...

MagicMelon said:
I disagree, I wouldnt expect many horses to "bronc", ok have the odd buck although even that I think is unacceptable. Yours sounds like its cold backed? My grey used to be like this, some days he'd be fine, other days as soon as my butt touched the saddle he'd explode and have me off. But he actually grew out of it thankfully. However, at that time I would definately have sold him at a discount because of it (had I been selling) even though he was perfect otherwise. Yes, all horses have quirks but quirks to me aren't broncing!
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Personally I don't believe in "cold backed", she just can worry when you get on and if she's tense. We are trying to convince her it's all AOK by pushing her, getting on and off lots and working her hard and I am hoping she is getting the impression that there's nothing to be worried about/nothing is hurting.

What do people think of "Price negotiable to the right rider" on an advert??

measles said:
Agree with LEC and TarrSteps. Saffy will buck from exuberance and I would choose to price her lower so that I could choose the best home to manage that, as best I could, despite her talent.

If the horse is realistically at best a top end RC horse then I'd expect the bucking to have a very significant impact on value.
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She has never bucked other than from initially when you get on (And maybe 6/7 times in the past year, 6 of which have been quick enough for the rider to step off and remount), and once you're on she's a real cracker. A plan of action is needed to find the right home for her I feel.

Mel85 said:
I have to agree that I don't class broncing when you get on as a quirk and I do think it would affect the price - admittedly if you are talking about an advanced eventer that is a bit different, but at the level that it is, there are many out there that offer the same as yours that don't bronc and therefore this has to affect the price, even if it is only slight.

I agree with the point made of don't price too low as you'll get the wrong buyers and also have to be absolutely honest with any potential purchaser.

Sorry hope doesn't sound too harsh just my opinion!!
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No, a really good post, thank you very much.
 
i sold one a few years ago like that and got £800
the one i sold sounded worse than the one you have though , she'd only bronc occaisionaly but when she did you were eating dust there wasn't a hope in hell chance of staying on her :o
our's was a well bred (by orlando) colored warmblood ,6yrs old and about 16"2 lovely paces and a big bold jump but not good enough to forgive the broncing
would have prob gone to intermediate maybe even 2*

she was sold truthfully as a broodmare with the option to bring her back into work (nothing physically was found wrong) from the field
tbh there are plenty of nice horses without nasty habits up for sale so i wouldn't think she would be worth very much unless she had massive potential as a comp horse
 
Wouldn't pay a bean.

Have had one that broncs and I ended up with a broken leg and missed half a hunting season. He could be angelic or a little toad. Its just not worth the risk. There are plenty of horses with exactly the same qualities out there that don't bronc. Far more sensible to buy one of them!!
 
To clarify, I don't think the issue is price, so much as marketability. IF the horse is doing the job, preferably with competition results, the right person might over look the problem/gamble that they can fix or manage it. But a large number of people will simply not consider the horse at any price.

I know this is nothing to do with you, OP, but this is why I'm amazed so many people are so casual about accepting problems in the backing process and operating under the assumption it will either sort itself out or won't be a problem. Good behaviour is health insurance for horses.
 
Goldenstar said:
I had one of these vet could not find anything he remained an occasional ejector seat ride he was by master imp so Ithought well they are often naughty and got on with it .
Eventually a small area of swelling appeared on the side of his spine very shallow and difficult to see it appeared and disappeared I took him down the vets with the intruction to please X-ray there .
He had kissing spines type condition it had brewed all that time if you asked me to bet something is wrong with the horse the vet simply has not found it yet.
And no I would buy it at any price.
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There unfortunately was a lot wrong with the horse when it started behaving like this as I explained in the OP, and now we finally have everything fixed it's a learned behaviour we are trying to unteach. We had the horse thoroughly examined after we had fixed everything we could think of, poked & prodded, lunged on all surfaces etc, and there is no soreness anymore/nothing wrong with her.

I'd be exactly the same as you, having had a horse diagnosed with KS which was awful, but as I say we have done everything now and it's a case of unteaching it.

Thank you for your comments though, I expect you are not alone in this view at all :)
 
I wouldn't buy it (or even view it). Long gone are the days when I'd get on anything as I have bills to pay and responsibilities now. If she is uber talented then someone will take her cheaply as a punt I'm sure but if she's just an RC horse then I think, if you're honest about her broncing, it will be harder to find the right kind of home for her.
 
TarrSteps said:
To clarify, I don't think the issue is price, so much as marketability. IF the horse is doing the job, preferably with competition results, the right person might over look the problem/gamble that they can fix or manage it. But a large number of people will simply not consider the horse at any price.

I know this is nothing to do with you, OP, but this is why I'm amazed so many people are so casual about accepting problems in the backing process and operating under the assumption it will either sort itself out or won't be a problem. Good behaviour is health insurance for horses.
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The situation with this mare actually saddens me greatly. I would never in a million years send one a youngster of my own to the yard where she was sent, and see them recommended on here a lot. It's easy to be quick to judge, but when the professional you're paying for their experience is adamant that it is behaviour and not pain and you're from a generation where it was not commonplace to get horse's backs checked and you've been out of the horse world properly for a decade or so other than keeping your own in fields at home, it is how things like this are missed and deeper issues become ingrained.

If this had been nipped in the bud (as I had myself with her sister who started this after I kicked her in the bum mounting when she was very green and scared the living daylights out of her resulting in bronking at mounting) as soon as it began rather than being told "Oh, she's immature, send her home for a few months and we'll start again", "Oh it's behaviour now, she'll get over it", then she is a dream horse. I haven't sat on such a safe horse in traffic in years.

I think the best bet would be a picture of her jumping a big hedge out hunting, and "Price negotiable for decent rider as had sharpness mounting issue in past" or something to that extent.

I should really see if I can call in a favour with a dealer I know and see if we can get her seen by a professional when they come to visit.
 
You would not believe some of the things I see and stories I hear. :( It's all very well to take the 'oh it won't matter/it will all work out approach' but almost always, if it does 'work out' it's because someone along the line has tried very hard to get that done.

I think your strategy is probably the way to go. I have sold horses in the past essentially 'by appointment only' and while it's often tricky to do, for the ones that have been let down and you're trying to save, it's often the only way.

I'm afraid I'd still advise, if I was retained, that a client walk away from a horse like that, even if I thought it could be sorted/managed but if she's nice enough hopefully someone will take a punt.
 
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