How not to shoe a horse..!!!!

cptrayes said:
Different subject, I know AG :( It must break your heart when owners refuse to do the right thing by their animals and you are forced to work with horses you feel should really be put to sleep. I don't envy you that at all.
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No its my job, the guy who put that clog on did a great job and will to an extent will have relieved some of the symptoms. If he were to deny the horse his expertise then it would of suffered more. If it is done under the pretence that the horse will be one day sound then that would be morally wrong. I will quite often tell people as I have said in a previous post that its progressive and irreversible and will come a time when the symptoms will not respond to treatment.
 
That poor horse, with such bad sinker is there any chance of recovery or even decent pain management?

In this day and age of medical marvels I really do wonder how far we push treatment because we can rather than should.
 
Oberon said:
Steward clogs have been around for years.

They attempt to improve break over to remove shearing forces and make it that the horse is rolling along.

Problem with the wooden shoes is slippiness is a real risk - and so horses will brace while moving for fear of slipping.

http://hoofcare.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/aqha-laminitis-download-link-for.html

I would imagine looking at the causes of the lami rather than concentrating on the hoof would yield better results though :rolleyes:

Prevention is better than cure......
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Exactly this method is used in the UK too they are used in some bad lami cases by some top vets and top hospitals although not what we are used to but different is not always bad! Also prevention is better than cure but with EMS prevention is not always possible.

Anyway interesting article
 
2horsesnomoney said:
Also prevention is better than cure but with EMS prevention is not always possible.
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True BUT in prevention I also mean not allowing the hoof to get so deformed in the first place.

Those heels and the length of the whole hoof didn't happen overnight nor as a result of EMS :(.

Heroic measures after the fact mean little if the pain and suffering could have been prevented in the first place :(.

I would be interested in the statistics of how many of these severely foundered horses in clogs ever came back to full soundness and comfort.

I'd choose Imprints over these shoes any day - but if one of my horses got to that point, they would get a bullet first.
 
JackAT said:
Would you be able to provide an explanation RE: screws over nails? From reading your other posts it seems you have some professional experience. I'm just curious.
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The post that I replied rubbish to was edited between me reading and replying. Th first post was rubbish the second edit was nearer to the mark. The placement of the clog is not an exact science. but in this horse the right foot is near normal you can tell that by the hair line at the coronary band is quite straight, on the left foot the coronary band has slipped downwards. The clog on the right is probably just applied to equal the height. The clog on the left is heavily beveled to alow the horse to breakover anywhere it likes with no resistance. the clog on the left isnt beveled so suggesting its not a problem.
The screws are the fixing, they are angled downwards because this it the most accurate way of avoiding the sensitive structures, had they gone through the clog first it would likely cause lameness. The shoe also has dental impression material in the clefts of the foot and around the frog this floats the toe ( the gap you can see at the front) the screws draw the foot onto the impression material and tightens it onto the clog.
 
Oberon said:
True BUT in prevention I also mean not allowing the hoof to get so deformed in the first place.

Those heels and the length of the whole hoof didn't happen overnight nor as a result of EMS :(.

Heroic measures after the fact mean little if the pain and suffering could have been prevented in the first place :(.

I would be interested in the statistics of how many of these severely foundered horses in clogs ever came back to full soundness and comfort.

I'd choose Imprints over these shoes any day - but if one of my horses got to that point, they would get a bullet first.
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This horse isnt a typical founder. My guess as its so pronounced in one foot and not the other that this was a serious club foot, congenital, heriditory or aquirred, but this was in place by 3 months old. Couple the hoof with inflammatory conditions and contracture then P3 gets absorbed and the heels get higher.
Imprints are good but I wouldnt use them on this horse.
 
I still think it's bonkers! The foot looks like it's had the c**p rasped (chiseled?) out of it, and it's not going to salvage the hoof!
 
I thought clogs were supposed to be an exact science and fitted in conjunction with X Rays to get break over at the deemed correct place? I've obviously misunderstood them.

Tbh, I'm with Oberon, the hoof shouldn't have been allowed to get that bad in the first place. Shutting the stable door springs to mind.
 
amandap said:
I thought clogs were supposed to be an exact science and fitted in conjunction with X Rays to get break over at the deemed correct place? I've obviously misunderstood them.

Tbh, I'm with Oberon, the hoof shouldn't have been allowed to get that bad in the first place. Shutting the stable door springs to mind.
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Really? What course of treatment would you propose to prevent the foot getting that bad in the first place? What mechanical forces do you think are causing that? I know what the x-rays would look like, and in all the years I have been studying feet and bio mechs no practioner could reverse the forces that have caused the pathology here. Believe me I wish they could.
I can tell you the screws will be passing through the wall, not pretty I grant you, plaster board screws would be better.
No its not an exact science, the foot would of been trimmed and the clog applied using a few external reference points. I do a lot of work to x-rays and the act as only a guide, years of experience and a good eye is as good as it gets, and that goes for all forms of equine hoof care.
 
A Guilding said:
Really? What course of treatment would you propose to prevent the foot getting that bad in the first place? What mechanical forces do you think are causing that? I know what the x-rays would look like, and in all the years I have been studying feet and bio mechs no practioner could reverse the forces that have caused the pathology here. Believe me I wish they could.
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Ok, I am an owner not a professional with years of experience but I don't believe forces have caused the hoof to grow like that in the first instance, yes they have exacerbated the situation now. My belief is that the hoof is severely laminitic, repeated stress rings, crushed dorsal wall, dip in the coronary band at the toe lead me to this conclusion based on just the photo.
So for me a strict laminitic diet and a hoof care professional that has been successful trimming severely deformed hooves would be my choice of treatment along with X Rays and vet input to get a clear idea of where that pedal bone is and then slowly trimming the hoof in line with the pedal bone safely. Hopefully a good strong lamina connection would be able to grow down.

Ps. Blood tests for metabolic conditions might also be worth doing.
 
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amandap said:
Ok, I am an owner not a professional with years of experience but I don't believe forces have caused the hoof to grow like that in the first instance, yes they have exacerbated the situation now. My belief is that the hoof is severely laminitic, repeated stress rings, crushed dorsal wall, dip in the coronary band at the toe lead me to this conclusion based on just the photo.
So for me a strict laminitic diet and a hoof care professional that has been successful trimming severely deformed hooves would be my choice of treatment along with X Rays and vet input to get a clear idea of where that pedal bone is and then slowly trimming the hoof in line with the pedal bone safely. Hopefully a good strong lamina connection would be able to grow down.

Ps. Blood tests for metabolic conditions might also be worth doing.
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I trim severely deformed feet. X-rays are great I get them daily.
I trim feet and shoe them. If that foot is a result of flexural contracture Which it is and probably from the age of 3 months old what effect will there be on P3 if you lower the heels?
 
I don't know what a flexural contracture is. lol I assume you're saying the horse has a developmental defect? What can I say but I don't know about a contracture but imho that horse has had laminitis long term.
Lowering heels is always a slow process in a sick hoof. It is also possible the toe has been running forward as it's been severely rasped right through the outer wall to the laminae, you can clearly see them.

Do you think the dip in the coronary band and collapsed dorsal wall are due to a contracture then? Do you think that is all that is wrong with this hoof?

Ps. There may well be tendon contractures from the very upright hoof and is another reason for lowering heels slowly. Of course if the hoof isn't sick (laminitic) then there is no need for diet changes but repeated stress rings mean dietary distress in my book unless the horse is getting repeated toxic events from drugs or something else.

The effect on P3 lowering the heels depends on where it is. That's the point of the X Rays but it looks to be sited somewhere near on it's tip by the dip in the coronary band and crushed dorsal wall.

I am someone who sees rotation as capsule rotation/displacement not P3 rotation.
 
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amandap said:
I don't know what a flexural contracture is. lol I assume you're saying the horse has a developmental defect? What can I say but I don't know about a contracture but imho that horse has had laminitis long term.
Lowering heels is always a slow process in a sick hoof. It is also possible the toe has been running forward as it's been severely rasped right through the outer wall to the laminae, you can clearly see them.

Do you think the dip in the coronary band and collapsed dorsal wall are due to a contracture then? Do you think that is all that is wrong with this hoof?
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http://www.nanric.com/Howtotreatclubfeet.asp

There is quite a bit of info in here on the contracture aspect. Rick also lists some of the pathology that accompany's the condition.
All of the aspects of bone absorption and miss alignment are mentioned.
This horse has had multiple laminitic episodes but only in the left foot. I completly agree that metabolism will bring it on more rapidly but only because of the mechanical forces involved.
 
Thanks, I'll have a read.

Surely if the laminitis is got under control the hoof will start to grow more normally and the deformity should grow out with careful trimming to reduce lever forces?
I suppose it's chicken and egg but I see addressing metabolic disruption as the foundation otherwise you're just chasing the hoof.

ps. Just had a quick look... ah you say it's a club foot? I know what they are. lol
 
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amandap said:
Thanks, I'll have a read.

Surely if the laminitis is got under control the hoof will start to grow more normally and the deformity should grow out with careful trimming to reduce lever forces?
I suppose it's chicken and egg but I see addressing metabolic disruption as the foundation otherwise you're just chasing the hoof.
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Now you are getting the picture. Treating one symptom will aggravate another. Club feet do not follow the normal pattern and are subject to there own course of debilitating pathology's, mostly progressive and irreversible.
Grade 1 or 2 club feet are easily treatable and rarely cause problems if trimmed and managed corectly. Grade 3 is tricky and susceptible to pathology based on use diet and management, most of the problems in this case. Grade 4 is glue sooner or later.
 
A Guilding said:
I did say it was a club foot in two previous post :D
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Lol, sorry, must have missed that.

So has this horse got two club feet? The other one looks similar but without the coronary band distortion.

I still think laminitis is the fundamental problem I'm afraid.
 
amandap said:
Lol, sorry, must have missed that.

So has this horse got two club feet? The other one looks similar but without the coronary band distortion.

I still think laminitis is the fundamental problem I'm afraid.
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No, one club foot. Laminitis is present for sure, fundemental yes, primary, no, just one more piece in a large jigsaw that is the equine.
 
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