How soon can I let my puppy off the lead?

[Demolition_Derby]

This is probably a numpty thing to ask but I need to know so I am going to ask it anyway

.

I can walk Ruby from sunday but I don't know when to start letting her off the lead? She knows her name already (picked her up on saturday) and comes to call straight away in the garden/house even if she is playing with a toy or chewing sticks etc

. But I am very aware that although she knows she is 'my' dog she doesn't really 'know' me.
I took her to the vets on Monday and a dog in the waiting room started snarling at her and she tried to run away in a panic - this was ok as she was on the lead but if she did it in an open field with no lead I would of stood no chance of getting her back

. All the other dogs she has met have been very friendly and she has been keen to say hello and come away from them when called.
We are starting puppy training on 24 March but I am a great believer in letting them off the lead on walks so I want to do it before then. Our other dogs that we have had previously have been adult (rescue) dogs and we have always decided that they are capable enough of deciding whether or not they want to stay with us and let them off from day one (never lost any!) but I understand that as she is a puppy it will be different as she may get scared by things that an adult dog wouldn't?
Sorry this has turned into an essay!

Also, there are no 100% secure fields around us to let her go and 'see what happens'.

Any thoughts/tips will be very gratefully received!!

One last thing - I have not yet used any sort of treats in her 'training' - onlly praise and a toy (she LOVES her toys!) so I would rather not start giving her treats on walks.

 

[GinaB]

I would take her out on a training line and start practising her recall that way before you can decide if you want to let her off the lead. You want her recall to be perfect before you even consider letting her off.

Take one of her small toys with you and when she returns to you give her lots of praise and allow her to play with the toy.

 

[Lucy_Nottingham]

Watch her, see which toy she ADORES above all others, then take that one with you, and dont let her have it for the day before so she will REALLY want it, so then when you call her she will be like OOO TOY!!

If there is a time of day when there are no or fewer people out with dogs round you on the fields go out at that time with the training line, or without (your call you know your dog the best) and just try, I doubt she will run off and leave you but just remember that she might get vvvvv excited by the prospect of being on her own and run around without recall.......
Maybe take one of your other dogs with you?!

 

[Demolition_Derby]

Thank you both very much.

I was slightly hesitant to use a training line as I was unsure if when I did let her off she would run thinking 'I'M FREE I'M FREE'!!! Is this likely?

Lucy - I expect her to run around like a looney for a while (she is quite hyper at times!) which I won't mind as long as I can get her back, eventually

! She is my only dog - the other dogs I was talking about were previous ones (now running as far as they want in doggy heaven

!). But I hadn't actually thought about taking another dog with her

- do you think this will distract her too much or will it give her a 'leader'? My best friends lab (wha has met her) is v.obedient and I could take him.

 

[sloulou]

Start training recall in the house - when it is 100% try it in the garden... then move up to trying it somewhere secure but isn't home (a friends garden maybe?) then when 100% let off the lead in open spaces. From what you say you are already nearly there

Take treats (bits of meat / cheese) and have higher rewards for harder situations!

Don't go too fast on the training - make sure you are at 100% before you move up a stage.

Also - remember only 5 mins exercise for every month of their lives until they are 1 yr old (ie. 3 months old puppy has 15 mins in one go, 4 months has 20 mins at a time) obviously you can walk more than once a day

 

[CorvusCorax]

Agree with the others and don't get frustrated if it takes time - my male is almost 18 months and I am only now confident to let him off the lead in public places - after a year, he now realises that frankfurters and big cuddles are much more interesting than squirrels, birds, sheep and mucky puddles

I used a long line with him, calling him back frequently, and alternating with treats and praise, and as he got better let him run loose with it trailing along (with a non tightening collar), so I could grab it if he did get distracted. I wouldn't advise this in busy areas to avoid tangling (we live in the middle of nowhere)
A good thing about that is that he never goes further away from me than the end of the invisible long line.

 

[abbie29]

Our dog trainer advised us to teach them to go 'down' as a priority so you can stop them going across roads, out of fields etc. Hopefully, if they don't recall, they will at least stop!! Good luck! I love watching my Ruby (a boy

short for Reuben) tearing around!

 

[jes_nibley]

I personally do not like long lines as (like you said) they do know when they are on it and when they are not. You can also get very tangled with them and I've seen plenty of people wiped clean off their feet...

As mentioned above, make certain that your recall is 120% in the house / garden before trying it anywhere else. Do you have a friend's garden / small field you can borrow so you have an enclosed area but with different distractions? Can your friend / OH / helping hand be doing something really really interesting at the other end of a room / garden while you recall to ensure that it really is spot on?

Do you just call her name, or do you have a recall command? My first spaniel, also Ruby, was perfect at the recall until about 4 months old when she started the whole "yeah, what?" routine when I called her name.
Now I train gundogs with my OH and we use a recall command such as 'here' or 'come'. The reason being we use their name to catch their attention and then the command to let them know what they need to do. I.e "Ruby, here". Admittedly half the reason that we do this is because we are working more than one dog at anyone time so need to be able to give them different commands.

Treats. We use reward based training but never ever use treats or food. Do you take into account the fact that she is getting more food and therefore reduce her meals? (The majority of people don't) What do you do when you run out in the middle of the park surrounded by 11 other dogs? Do you really want to carry titbits around for the rest of your dogs life? How do you reduce the use of treats but keep up the reliability?
So, the general commands / talking etc is done in a normal voice. Chastising is in a firm positive voice or a growl or an 'ah-ah', and praise is a high pitched voice (imagine a guy who has just had his delicates whacked, or a person on helium). By changing the tone of the voice you have all the reward you need.

When taking your pup off the lead make yourself the most fun and important thing in the vicinity. If you call Ruby back and she doesn't take notice walk / jog backwards - this will instill a game of chase for Ruby and it will be great fun - you can crouch down with your arms out, as if you were about to hug a child, and encourage her right into you and into the 'v' created by your legs. Take a toy with you and make a big big fuss of it, the whole appeal to Ruby needs to be that it is fun to come back to you. Never grab for your dog and never chase her as they are much quicker and she will find it fun while you find it infuriating!

Hopefully this has helped and hopefully I haven't waffled on for too long or gone too far off track. And most importantly, I hope you have the most wonderful time with Ruby for many years to come!!

What breed is she by the way?

Cheers.

 

[RubysGold]

We use a long line, and in answer to the question of when you let her go, what we do, is use the long line, giving it little tugs to reinforce our recall command. Once the dog is getting good and can be 'let off' we let the long line go, so it is trailing behind them, this way they can get further away, therefore thinking they are free, but if they don't listen to the recall you can stand on the line to get their attention.
Once they understand the recall you can then take the long line off and let them go.
Nickie

 

[Demolition_Derby]

Amarillo - Thank you very much for your reply.

At the moment I do just call her name but I will now start using the command 'here' after it - I hadn't thought of it like that so thankyou, that was very useful

. I have had OH distract her in the garden whilst I am calling her and so far she has come to me everytime... so far

! But I will take her to a friends house and practice there too.

Treats - I completely agree with you on this one - hence my last paragraph in my OP

. My only concern is the training centre we are going to have said that they would much rather owners bring treats with them as a reward, but I spoke to them and explained my concerns and they agreed that I can bring toys but if they think that she is not feeling 'rewarded' enough they will insist that I give her food.... in which case I think I will move to another centre, sounds extreme but thats how strongly I feel against giving treats!!!

She is a rottweiler, here she is:

 

[sloulou]

Amarillo - is so true! Their name is their name - and not a command. I was told that early on when i was training my dog as a puppy and so his recall command is 'come' and his name to catch his attention first, sometimes.

 

[CorvusCorax]

^^^ Agree! I alternate between a high pitched 'come!' and 'puppy!' which makes me sound like an idiot because he is the size of a small horse, also agree crouching, running backwards and even rolling around on the ground (dogs are nosy!) really help at training stage.
If he is ignoring me in favour of a particularly interesting tussock of grass, a quick handclap, foot shuffle or odd noise soon gets his attention.

Amarillo, re long lines, I have been using them since I was a kid as we used to do tracking, agree they can be a bit of a pain, but I have found them really useful. I often think there should be an NVQ in 'lead management', especially with more than one dog, I believe it is a real skill

Very sweet pup, DD!

 

[jes_nibley]

Hi DD,

Just thought of another way we 'teach' the recall.

At meal times shake Ruby's bowl and recall her to you. Although we do not use treats as I said above because dinner is an exciting time she will instinctively come towards you so by adding the recall command you are re-affirming it.

You can also use meal times to start the 'sit'. Again, shake the bowl and call Ruby to you. When she gets to you lift the bowl over her head and backwards (sort of towards her tail if that makes sense!) As you move the bowl over her head, in looking up at it and following it's movement her bottom will hit the deck. Say 'sit' as her bum touches the floor and after some practice she will get it. We repaet this exercise 2-3 times at every meal time.
This is not using treats as a reward as she gets her meals anyway, it's just re-affirming that you are the boss and what you say goes, and using everyday happenings to help you...

Where are you based? Depending on where you are I may know of someone in your area that could help if you are interested?

Cheers.

 

[jes_nibley]

Hacking_Hack,

I'm not saying don't use them but as you say, there ought to be a course for lead management to enable them to be used properly.

We have used them a couple of times for some dogs but I could probably count on one hand how many times in the last 4 years...!

Some people can use them and get on very well with them, however I believe that it is much better to train without them. In my opinion if you have a proper bond with your dog you should not need them.

ETS I'm not implying that you do not have a bond with your dogs neither am I saying that you are wrong to use them. We train without them and prefer it that way - I guess it's a case of 'each to their own'.

 

[sloulou]

I clicker trained my dog - which was excellent - plus also use a gundog whistle - which actually works really well as is much more consistent than voice commands - although obviously you need voice comands too - in case you don't have your whistle!

I have whistle comands for stop, come, sit and down.

You can clicker train using toys instead of food

 

[CorvusCorax]

No offence taken Amarillo, I grew up using them - where we live is full of sheep and other nice distractions so it is good to have an extra bit of kit to be on the safe side.

I haven't used it on all of ours for recall training, but my current male has been a bit difficult and I don't think I could have done without it!

It's horses for courses, we should start one of those big long posts that they have in the NL about draw reins and gag bits

I vote for extendable leads for the most useless, dangerous bit of kit, personally!

 

[sloulou]

extendable leads are awful... totally agree!

 

[CAYLA]

Extendy leads indeedy should be made illegal

I can train a dog on a long line in no time, it would be foolish of me, to take on a dog for training, much like the doberman puppy and the ddb x staffi I have been training and proceed to allow it off lead in the hope that it's love for me alone

will bring it back, esp as HH suggests, if it's an environment that you can not control, it's a safe and responsible way to train.
I think also when dealing with dogs with true behavioural problems in the scenario of large breed or rescues, and not just day to day training of the pet pooch or working dogs, safety is a priority.

I have never come across an injury with a long line, but I have with extendy leads

Treats are fab for training aslong as people are sensible with food reduction, and dont just fill the dogs face full of treats, and of course as Widget suggests, introducing a whistle or clicker, and decreasing the treats is a great way to phase out on the treats.
Toys though as suggested as a good training aid.
Rotties are very easy to train, very loyal, I dont think you will have any problems with recall, but I would be in no hurry to rush training, it's far better to take time with one on one training than be inpatient and make mistakes that have to be back tracked upon and corrections made.

I was out today with my puppy dobie(clients) not mine

and she was fab for me, 10 mins on her long line, then off, she was fab with her recall, and get this, 2 fully trained gun dogs where training in same field......they are usually fab and never take notice of me or my dogs, they work in the field every day with dummy pheasant aids(no sure exactly what they are) look like bundles of feathers.... and vice versa my dogs steer well clear of them, one broke away

and proceeded to follow my pointer, who was himself hunting(not near them though)....the man could not recall it for love nor money, nor whistle

my puppy dobe, was at my side

, as was my pointer, the spaniel, well he had to come physically reclaim it, he was fuming

, I was tempted to ask if he wanted any tips, or tit bits

only I did not have any, as OH uses them as I rarely do, and he was not with me.

Good luck, some great tips on here for you