How to approach proposing field swap?

PolarSkye

PolarSkye

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OK, this may be long and complicated so bear with, bear with . . . :)

Fields at our yard are allocated to three horses each. It's pretty much up to us how we manage our fields (rotation, fertilizing, fencing, etc.) and who we share with - YO tends to stay out of it. I have been having "issues" with one of the people I share a field with for some time and things came to a head yesterday. I don't want to go into detail here, PM me if you feel you need to know the ins and outs to answer my questions here, but I'm sufficiently fed up and upset to want to leave the field (but not the yard) . . . that way I can limit my dealings with this person to polite pleasantries and nothing more. In addition, this person has made an open secret of the fact that she thinks my horse is a pain in the rear end . . . so moving fields would probably be beneficial to her too.

There are no spaces at the yard so I would have to approach another livery to see if they'd be willing to swap. I have two fields in mind - I know the horses and know and like the liveries . . .

Field One - is occupied by two horses owned by the same family (a mother and two adult daughters - and one of the daughters is schooling and competing my horse for me after her own was PTS this summer and until she finds something else), and a horse belonging to a friend who I introduced to the YO/brought to the yard.

Field Two - is occupied by two horses belonging to two liveries I was at another yard with (one of them I consider a good friend) and a horse owned by a young girl (she's 12) who has recently arrived at the yard and had to move fields b/c her horse was being bullied in the first field he was put into.

I don't particularly want to go into the ins and outs of why I want to move fields . . . it's not in my nature to slag people off . . . but I do need to put forward a compelling case to either the young girl or my friend . . . how would you approach this?

Apologies if this is all to vague . . . if you ask questions, I'll do my best to answer them.

Thanks in advance.

P
 
Im not sure how you would be able to put a compelling argument forward as to why someone else would want to share this field, if you dont! Without knowing why you want to move (and I appreciate you dont want to go in to it publicly) its difficult to advise. My suggestion would be to go to the YO, if he has an unhappy livery, and its not all your fault, he does have some responsibility to try and resolve things surely! Maybe he could orchestrate the swap for you and give yard reasons.
 
MyBoyChe said:
Im not sure how you would be able to put a compelling argument forward as to why someone else would want to share this field, if you dont! Without knowing why you want to move (and I appreciate you dont want to go in to it publicly) its difficult to advise. My suggestion would be to go to the YO, if he has an unhappy livery, and its not all your fault, he does have some responsibility to try and resolve things surely! Maybe he could orchestrate the swap for you and give yard reasons.
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Approaching the YO is something I have considered but the person I am having issues with is one of his "favourites" . . . and I am not. I could say that we're just not getting along, I suppose. He does, however, much prefer to stay out of things until the point they are resolved . . . he hates conflict.

P
 
I think it depends what the problem is really, & whether whoever swops will end up in the same situation as you are now. I'd say speak to the yo first, & ask them if you can ask someone to swop with you. Then just explain the issues you have briefly to the other livery, & ask if they'll swop. With the 12yr old, I'd also say speak to her while she is with parents if they're horsey, or her ri or similar. Not because I think you would otherwise be pressuring some poor child into swopping when they don't want to. But, yards are full of gossip, & if you already have an issue with one livery, it would be very easy to start a rumour that you have made the 12yr old change against their better judgement.
 
I agree you need to be careful not to make it look like you're asking someone to put up with something you're not prepared to. At a previous yard someone asked me to swap with them because their field kept flooding so they couldn't turn out! Needless to say I was not amused.

Does the person you've had a disagreement with feel the same way? If so could you talk to them and suggest you're happy to move and perhaps they'll be only too pleased to ask one of their friends to swap with you. That way they get to share with their friend and you get to move :)
 
ghostie said:
I agree you need to be careful not to make it look like you're asking someone to put up with something you're not prepared to. At a previous yard someone asked me to swap with them because their field kept flooding so they couldn't turn out! Needless to say I was not amused.

Does the person you've had a disagreement with feel the same way? If so could you talk to them and suggest you're happy to move and perhaps they'll be only too pleased to ask one of their friends to swap with you. That way they get to share with their friend and you get to move :)
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This is what I am afraid it Would sound like to.
These issues are YMers job if it's always management that sorts such thing everything runs better IME, why do people have yards and expect them to run themselves?beats me.
PS I am really not sure how you achieve this without it all going wrong if the other person is difficult to deal with if I was the adult I would say no and it's unfair to put a child in that position.
 
I appreciate your YO may not wish to get involved as have been in a yard like that. It was a flipping pain as someone needs to be in control!

We don't need to know the ins and outs of what is happening and you are honest enough to say that other livery thinks your horse is a pain. Therefore why not talk to her, just to say it is clear that the field partnership,is not working and would be better to swap fields. Maybe she might find it easier to swap? you can agree between yourselves that you think the horses would be better split up. For what it's worth I would not approach the 12 year old on her own as you "could" be seen to be taking advantage. Good luck!
 
ghostie said:
I agree you need to be careful not to make it look like you're asking someone to put up with something you're not prepared to. At a previous yard someone asked me to swap with them because their field kept flooding so they couldn't turn out! Needless to say I was not amused.

Does the person you've had a disagreement with feel the same way? If so could you talk to them and suggest you're happy to move and perhaps they'll be only too pleased to ask one of their friends to swap with you. That way they get to share with their friend and you get to move :)
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I agree with this ^^^^ ,with the best will in the world, swapping 2 horses around in a shared space affects more than the 2 people involved, the implications of the herd hierarchey and possible problems that can arise due to changes in that, can have a big impact.
The girl who's already moved due to her horse being bullied in the field imo is unlikely to want to move again If her horse is settled where he is, and probably wont want the herd thats settled changed, in consideration of her, id discount that field. It is difficult to say if its fair to ask the others, without knowing whats likely to be inflicted on them if they do move.
I do hope that you get something sorted out, its horrible if youre not content with the set up at livery, makes me glad ive my own place everytime i read stuff like this.
 
I think it would be really mean to ask the girl with the bullied horse to move, both for the sake of her horse and her. Being young she may feel pressurised. So I would be concentrating my efforts on your friend. Can't for the life of me think of a compelling argument though. I think you will just have to be absolutely honest in why you want to move.
 
This is why I like keeping my horse seperate from other liverys. I do not allow other around my horse's unless they are helping me.

Could you not suggest that because one of the daughters is helping with you horse it makes sense to keep your with theirs? Maybe so she could build a better "bond" or something?
 
Wouldn't it just be best to speak to your field sharer and sort your issues out? If the horses are settled it seems crazy to put them both through upheaval that could cause major issues to your's, other field mate, other horse that moves to that field, other new field mate in your new field??

What is the other field sharer's problem with your horse? Will this problem be passed onto the new field sharer or is it all in this other lady's mind?
 
OK, back from turning the boy out and logged on to see all your kind replies - thank you . . . and some answers/an update . . .

- Having thought about it, you're all right about the 12-year-old so that's not an option

- Sorting out issues with field sharer isn't an option at this point . . . there's just a huge personality clash and now I'm feeling very ganged up on by she and our other fieldmate. Plus, she has seen fit to plaster her version of the latest incident all over FB and slag me off to half the yard. I'm very much a "go with the flow" sort of person and I've let a lot of things slide . . . also I've invested quite a lot of money in the field between fencing and fertilizers, but I'm not prepared to deal with her any more.

- Her problem with my horse is separate from her problem with me . . . she doesn't like either of us, basically. She thinks my horse is an idiot and she doesn't like the fact that he's playful and a bit hot headed. He has never hurt either of the other two horses . . . he's very much bottom of the herd (her horse won't even let him roll without going over and making him get up) . . . but he can be a stresshead if left alone in the field.

- Would I be passing on a problem horse by moving him to another field? Depends which field, really. He's fine when in regular work and as long as he's not left on his own . . . but he's not dangerous or anything.

So . . . on the advice of another livery who I trust, I spoke to the YO this morning. I merely said I was unhappy in the field and wanted to move, that I would prefer not to go into details (this was before I found out that it is all public knowledge anyway) and that I might need his help persuading people to swap fields with me but that I would attempt to resolve it on my own. He was fab, actually. We've come up with two options . . .

Option A (which I hadn't thought of) is to put my horse in with the two new mares . . . they're a brand new herd so we're not disrupting an established threesome, he's been out with mares before . . . but I need to approach the owner of the gelding currently in that field to see if she'd be prepared to switch. She will by now be aware of what happened yesterday b/c apparently my two fieldmates and she were having a mutual "slag PS off" on the yard this morning . . . which may or may not be in my favour. This YO's preferred option.

Option B is for me to swap with my friend . . . I will talk to her this afternoon. I have already spoken to one of the two sisters who said they'd be delighted to have my boy in their field, which is a relief. Still not sure how I'll position this with my friend . . . I think I may need to be honest and just say that I'm clashing with this other person and see what she says.

I want this resolved as quickly as possible . . . and if either of my two current fieldmates digs their heels in about this, I will be back to my YO and his wife (who has my back) like a shot. I'm not having this any more.

I was upset last night and this morning, but now I'm absolutely furious. Honestly, these people are behaving worse than children on a playground. If either of my teenage daughters behaved like this, I'd be absolutely furious.

P
 
Just sorry you are going through this. Horses are an odd area to deal with. We put so much effort, time and money into them. It is supposed to be our relaxation and pleasure but, lets be honest, sometimes it feels like a chore. And then we do end up in a middle ground. Its not a job where you have to bite your lip and get on it, equally, you don't CHOOSE your fellow liveries. On the bright side, if you have ever dealt with stress on a yard, then you are really really grateful when you are on a yard where you really like and can socialise with other liveries. Sounds like you have it in hand. Not sure how I would deal with the whole being slagged off on FB though - but perhaps in this instance as your YO is getting involved then HE could have a word and point out that said behaviour is not acceptable. He might prefer to do this in order to stop said livery in her tracks, causing further dissent on his yard which could well cause more upsets and grief for him. Good luck PS, you really don't need the grief and I am honestly not sure if I would have been as adult as you and I am pretty sure we are around the same age!
 
Goodness me what a nightmare! I hope the YO does have a word about the facebook/bitching thing, that is unacceptable, I'd be steaming right on in there and giving them what for!

I think your horse moving in with the two mares sounds ideal especially if the current person there is one of the offending party's comrades. At least they are all friends so you're not sending some unsuspecting twelve year old into the fire!
 
PolarSkye said:
OK, this may be long and complicated so bear with, bear with . . . :)

Fields at our yard are allocated to three horses each. It's pretty much up to us how we manage our fields (rotation, fertilizing, fencing, etc.) and who we share with - YO tends to stay out of it. I have been having "issues" with one of the people I share a field with for some time and things came to a head yesterday. I don't want to go into detail here, PM me if you feel you need to know the ins and outs to answer my questions here, but I'm sufficiently fed up and upset to want to leave the field (but not the yard) . . . that way I can limit my dealings with this person to polite pleasantries and nothing more. In addition, this person has made an open secret of the fact that she thinks my horse is a pain in the rear end . . . so moving fields would probably be beneficial to her too.

There are no spaces at the yard so I would have to approach another livery to see if they'd be willing to swap. I have two fields in mind - I know the horses and know and like the liveries . . .

Field One - is occupied by two horses owned by the same family (a mother and two adult daughters - and one of the daughters is schooling and competing my horse for me after her own was PTS this summer and until she finds something else), and a horse belonging to a friend who I introduced to the YO/brought to the yard.

Field Two - is occupied by two horses belonging to two liveries I was at another yard with (one of them I consider a good friend) and a horse owned by a young girl (she's 12) who has recently arrived at the yard and had to move fields b/c her horse was being bullied in the first field he was put into.

I don't particularly want to go into the ins and outs of why I want to move fields . . . it's not in my nature to slag people off . . . but I do need to put forward a compelling case to either the young girl or my friend . . . how would you approach this?

Apologies if this is all to vague . . . if you ask questions, I'll do my best to answer them.

Thanks in advance.

P
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It depends hugely on what the problem is. If it's enough to make you move I doubt the young girls mum would be happy and change a set up she likes.
Equally first field will want their next horse in with theres probably so may already want to switch around (just as an aside, if she's getting another will she have to wait for a space? If there's one allocated, you could switch to it now?

Unless it's very personal, no one will want to swap :/

Perhaps approach about 4 in a field if possible as field one is currently using your horse?

Pan
 
This is why YO's need to actually take responsibility for the yards they run.
You should not have to sort this out on your own....in fact if I were your YO and it was bought to my attention that there was a problem with the field occupants, SHE would be moving if you had spent money sorting the ground and fencing out.
And I would be EXTREMELY p*****d off to find a livery had been slating someone to the other yard members via FB.
In fact if I were you I would be asking YO to move HER horse......
 
PandorasJar said:
It depends hugely on what the problem is. If it's enough to make you move I doubt the young girls mum would be happy and change a set up she likes.
Equally first field will want their next horse in with theres probably so may already want to switch around (just as an aside, if she's getting another will she have to wait for a space? If there's one allocated, you could switch to it now?

Unless it's very personal, no one will want to swap :/

Perhaps approach about 4 in a field if possible as field one is currently using your horse?

Pan
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YO won't allow four to a field, end of. It'll have to be a straight swap. First field are waiting for one of their existing two to "go" before they buy something else. Both belong to the older of the two sisters - the pony is retired and the horse has multiple issues . . . a PTS decision will need to be made about one of them at some point and then the sisters will buy a youngster to share. Yard is full . . . there are no spaces.

P
 
joeanne said:
This is why YO's need to actually take responsibility for the yards they run.
You should not have to sort this out on your own....in fact if I were your YO and it was bought to my attention that there was a problem with the field occupants, SHE would be moving if you had spent money sorting the ground and fencing out.
And I would be EXTREMELY p*****d off to find a livery had been slating someone to the other yard members via FB.
In fact if I were you I would be asking YO to move HER horse......
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We've all spent money on the field - not just me. And I'd be no better off if she moved her horse (which she won't do, trust me) b/c the other fieldmate is no better . . . honestly, I'm better off out of there.

Oh, and it's not just slating me on FB, it's slagging me off left right and centre on the yard - yesterday while I was actually THERE and this morning when I wasn't.

Sigh. This woman is in her 30s. Old enough to know better really.

P
 
Honestly.....your YO needs to pull her up by the short and curlies and make it clear to her that kind of behaviour simply will not be tolerated.
He/she needs to be far more proactive where the yard is concerned, and the behaviour of those on it.
Horses are far too expensive a hobby to not be fully enjoyed!
 
OK - so to give you some background, this is the latest "incident" . . .

My horse has had to be stabled/kept out of the field for the past five weeks because of recurrent mud fever/skin infections leading to cellulitis. It's been five long weeks of mucking out twice a day, dressing feet, cold hosing swollen limbs, hand walking, etc. We have, however, been working him from the stable to help keep the cellulitis at bay, keep him sane and fit(ish). On Friday I had the vet back out b/c his left hind was the size of a tree trunk . . . he prescribed a six-day course of injected Cobactan and said that as soon as the swelling had gone down, my horse should go out in the field. Saturday evening his leg was very nearly normal-sized. One of my two fieldmates was at the yard so I said to her "just FYI, if my horse's leg is still down tomorrow, I plan to put him out" to which she replied "that's great, I'll see S in the morning and I'll let her know."

He was fine yesterday morning, so after I'd given him his injection, I turned him out. To be honest, I did think about texting S or putting a note on the board, but thought other fieldmate had it in hand. And I did expect that S would want to boot her horse up just in case they all had a little run around so was surprised to see him without boots when I took mine up the field. I turned my boy out . . . he ran up to the top of the field and then spent the next two minutes or so trotting in circles. S's horse only moved once - he cantered up to tell the other two to stop being silly (they were playing "bitey face") and then they all put their heads down and ate. I stood by the gate watching for at least 20 minutes . . . all quiet. I spent all day at the yard and checked on them multiple times . . . all quiet. Brought my boy in after about four hours, all still quiet. S comes up to yard and greets me in her usual bossy way and then asks when my boy can go out. When I say that he went out that day, she loses the plot . . . "it would have been nice to have been told . . . " I tell her that I'd mentioned it to the other livery who had said she'd tell her, but she stalks off. Later, I was crossing the yard and she was in her stable . . . she shouts (across the yard) that she's really angry with me, that I showed a complete lack of respect for other people's horses, that my horse is an idiot, etc. All at the top of her voice. I repeat that I thought the other livery was going to let her know, and I apologize - she's still shouting . . . I apologize again, she's still shouting . . . in the end I walked away. As soon as she's finished shouting at me, she's off slagging me off to other liveries - while I'm on the yard.

Apparently her horse was stiff this morning and all four legs were swollen . . . it may, or may not be because my horse was acting the maggot . . . I didn't see or hear any running around. There were other liveries about and none of them saw anything. I probably should have waited until I'd seen S to let her know and not assumed that the other livery had told her, but I'm astounded at the reaction, tbh . . . and the way I've been spoken to and about since.

Sigh.

P
 
Do you know what I would do? Nothing.

You have done nothing wrong - and if the YO won't step in to tell her to shut her trap (oh, and manage their yard), I'd seriously question whether this was the type of yard I wanted to be at.

Sure, it's nice to tell people when a horse is returning to the field after injury - but it's not always possible.

You monitored them - and all was well.

If she continues to have a go - tell her to do one.
 
amymay said:
Do you know what I would do? Nothing.

You have done nothing wrong - and if the YO won't step in to tell her to shut her trap (oh, and manage their yard), I'd seriously question whether this was the type of yard I wanted to be at.

Sure, it's nice to tell people when a horse is returning to the field after injury - but it's not always possible.

You monitored them - and all was well.

If she continues to have a go - tell her to do one.
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^^^^ This. Life is too short for this sort of nonsense and sadly I would be looking to move if that is the atmosphere - where is the fun in it all?
 
joeanne said:
This is why YO's need to actually take responsibility for the yards they run.
You should not have to sort this out on your own....in fact if I were your YO and it was bought to my attention that there was a problem with the field occupants, SHE would be moving if you had spent money sorting the ground and fencing out.
And I would be EXTREMELY p*****d off to find a livery had been slating someone to the other yard members via FB.
In fact if I were you I would be asking YO to move HER horse......
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Completely agree, unbelievable that there's YO's still out there not wanting to be involved in such things.
 
Wow, PS, you are such a nice person. Not once have you slagged this person off and you take responsibility for most of the situation. And really you shouldn't. What a brat this other livery is. Im so glad all of mine are together. At least if one comes in with blown up legs I don't have worry someone is gonna have a go at me. I'm able to be a normal horse person and think, well dummy how'd you do that?

I think you may have to see YO and get it sorted. For me personally I'm not a fan of mixing geldings and mares but that's just me. Best of luck and hope you get some peace. That's just not fun to deal with.

Terri
 
amymay said:
Do you know what I would do? Nothing.

You have done nothing wrong - and if the YO won't step in to tell her to shut her trap (oh, and manage their yard), I'd seriously question whether this was the type of yard I wanted to be at.

Sure, it's nice to tell people when a horse is returning to the field after injury - but it's not always possible.

You monitored them - and all was well.

If she continues to have a go - tell her to do one.
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This.

I wouldn't expect to notify if it's their standard field and they all knew each other and have been out regularly previously and I was monitoring it. Polite to give a heads up- which you did.
If her horse damages itself with its fieldmate going out for the first time in a few weeks I'd question her on her horses behaviour to be in such a state and mention that you hope her horse wasn't going to be winding yours up ;)
You are paying your way to be there with as much right as her.

What's the fencing payment for? I wouldn't want to be paying for a horse and fixing/putting up fences!
If renting a whole field I wouldn't mind but not with a mix of liveries :/

Whats in your contract for if you leave? Or does it come as an when needed with no recompense?
 
I'm going against the grain here *tin hat firmly on*

But I can understand the other liveries fustration about the latest incident (obviously I can't comment on past incidents as I have no idea of the ins and outs) as an owner of a very accident prone Horse, I always like to be around when a new Horse is introduced, or a Horse that has been on box rest comes back to the herd. It is not because I want to point fingers and place blame on anyone if my Horses injures herself. It is because I can then be around, to bring in/call vet/clean wounds if needed (which is a regular thing with mine :p)

You mentioned you had her number, it would have only taken 1 minute or so to send a text to let her know, you also said you knew the night before there was a good chance of him going out. So there was plenty of time to send a quick text. If she choose to turn out anyway and her Horse gets injured then so be it, but atleast then it was her choice.

It does not justify her slagging you off on fb/around the yard though. I think that is out of order, you apologised (more then once) and she carried on.

I can understand both points of view.
 
Sorry PS but id have been hacked off as well if after 5 weeks out of the field id not been forewarned about booting up when your horse was going back in or if someone was watching the re integration of the horse back into the herd.
That said i wouldnt have carried on the way this person seems to be doing, but i would have remarked about not being told, and thats where it went wrong imo.
I know you said you told the fieldmate, but in my experience some things are best not left to chance, and anything to do that could affect others horses is best done face to face or over the phone with all involved, texts can claim to be missed. Put yourself in her position, how would you feel if your horse who'd been fine then came in with 4 swollen legs and her horse going out was the only change ?
I must say she sounds like a real piece of work and the yo needs to rein her in, yards with no clear person in charge let people like this flourish, and while i do think she has a case to be aggrieved, whether her horse is swollen due to your horse going out or not, in her head, thats the variable she has in her mind that could have caused it, right or wrong, and tbh unless you were sat watching them for the full 4 hours, she might be right :(
It doesnt give her the right to be abusive to you and attempt to bully and intimidate you, hopefully itll settle down, but i think it unlikely until her horses swollen legs are down ...... Yo needs to nip it before it gets worse imo
 
She told one field mate what she was doing and then that girl said she'd tell the other field mate. OP stood around and watched horses nearly for the whole day. As far as boots to each his own. But either keep them on or don't. Don't blame someone else. My mate was booted for turnout when living at trainers. Came home to me and I said nope, no more. Oh yeah, first couple of weeks she dinged herself here and there until she remembered how to handle herself. No more dings. But look it, that's me and if you choose to boot then boot. Don't blame the OP because you were lazy. I mean as if nothing else ever gets horses wound up and running around. Seriously, hate when other people blame someone else for something they should have done anyway.

What if mouthy obnoxious girl owned all 3 in the paddock and something got them all riled up on a normal day. Think she'd be all mouthy looking for someone to blame. Obviously not. But hey, it's easier to blame someone as long as it isn't you.

Terri
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
She told one field mate what she was doing and then that girl said she'd tell the other field mate. OP stood around and watched horses nearly for the whole day. As far as boots to each his own. But either keep them on or don't. Don't blame someone else. My mate was booted for turnout when living at trainers. Came home to me and I said nope, no more. Oh yeah, first couple of weeks she dinged herself here and there until she remembered how to handle herself. No more dings. But look it, that's me and if you choose to boot then boot. Don't blame the OP because you were lazy. I mean as if nothing else ever gets horses wound up and running around. Seriously, hate when other people blame someone else for something they should have done anyway.

What if mouthy obnoxious girl owned all 3 in the paddock and something got them all riled up on a normal day. Think she'd be all mouthy looking for someone to blame. Obviously not. But hey, it's easier to blame someone as long as it isn't you.

Terri
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But it isn't up to the other livery to tell the other. It was OP's Horse. It should have been OP's responsibility to let all the owners know herself.
 
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