how to approach.

Bosworth

Bosworth

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Joined
10 February 2006
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Location
devon
www.ballhillequestrian.co.uk
one of my liveries has a young horse. He is a very stressy chap, throws himself inside out in his stable if another horse goes out to school, hack, or turn out without him, but he can't be turned out first as he has a major panic if he is out before the others. He has other horses still in the american barn with him. He has turn out every day for at least 8 hours with good grass and loads of room and a field mate. He hasn't been ridden for about 10 days and prior to that he was ridden 3 - 4 times a week for 30 mins. He was on Simple System feeds plus linseed and brewers yeast and good quality hay. He has no top line but is a nice weight but lacking in muscle.

Last week his owner has increased his feed dramatically, he is still on the Simple Systems, plus now he has a mollased chop with split peas, Maize and Oats. Plus Allan and Page Calm and Condition. His feeds have doubled in size and they were not small before. And today she changed him over to haylage. He is still not in work, but she hopes to get back on him tomorrow.

I am really concerned as his behaviour is so appalling - he will turn himself inside out in his stable kicking out at the walls. rearing and bucking and it is like hysterics if another horse leave, So bad it is dangerous to be in his stable.

I have talked to her in the past about taking away weight gain feeds as they turn his brain and we have proved it as because his behaviour improved dramatically when he was just on the Simple Systems - but once again as he lacks muscle she feels the need to feed for muscle rather than work him and no amount of feed on it's own is going to muscle him up.

I am also concerned that he is a likely candidate for Azatoria (sp) as this feed has increased so dramatically with a decreased work load. And the sugar/starch content is horrendous

What is the best way to approach her, or do I leave her to it - I only ask as I have to turn him out and deal with the other liveries complaining about him throwing himself around and screaming constantly.

If I don't say anything and she gets hurt - or he gets hurt. But if I do say it is interfering and really its not my business - but it affects my business as I have to handle him and it causes others grief.
 
Not a chance on this planet that I'd be turning him out when he's behaving like that. What about if YOU get hurt? You have a business to run and where would that leave you? It's always a very delicate situation when approaching people about their precious little 'babies' but when it comes to your own safety, I'd have no hesitation. Is this person approachable? Have you spoken to anyone else on the yard about it? What do they think? Are you concerned that you might lose a livery?
 
If the horse is in danger of hurting himself or other horses / people, then I think something should be said. If the horse were to hurt himself in the stable when the others were turned out - would the owner blame you? Or if he is causing damage to the stable is the owner going to pay for repairing / replacing?
It is a tricky situation, but I would say that everyone's health and safety (and I am including the horses') has to come first.
My sister had her horse on a yard for a while, and her horse was carrying out very similar behaviour. In the end my sister moved her horse, and her horse is so much more settled now.

I am sure you don't want to lose a livery, but if this is the best thing for the horse, then maybe its the best thing for the owner to do.
 
Can you ask her why she has felt the need to change his feeds so dramatically? Simple System feeds are a complete feeding system - they are organic, non-GM, non-cereal and non-sugar based. To change this horse from a high fibre diet, to a sugary, starchy diet is asking for trouble - not just in his behaviour, but azoturia/colic could be a real possibility. If Jan van Lennep (who is the founder of Simple System) can compete in endurance rides of 60 miles plus on these feeds, then this youngster should do perfectly well on them. If his behaviour is dangerous to you and other liveries and his owner won't compromise, then perhaps it would be best if she found somewhere else. Poor horse.
 
I think she is absolutely trying to feed for top line - she seemed to understand the simple system concept and to be honest all the other horses on the yard do really well on it - and all the others are calm, all horses that come to the yard calm right down and settle in well - this horse is getting worse as she adds to the feed. Even my farrier is commented how bad he is and how he is getting worse to shoe.

She is putting it down to anything other than her feed and total lack of exercise, others coming and going to ride, taking horses out of the field. I believe she thinks that the Simple Systems doesn't build topline. But doesn't seem to understand that topline is muscle and to build topline the horse has to work correctly and convert the food to muscle. She also says that him being stressed is why he hasn't got weight but doesn't seem able to equate sugar/starch and hyperactivity.

I have spoken to Jane about him and she agrees with the original Simple Systems diet and I know she would be horrified with the diet he is now on.

I think she will have to move - but poor horse - he is a lovely chap when he isn't stressed - which is about 95% of the time during the week and 90% at the weekend
 
TBH I think she'll work it out for herself when her horse goes ballistic and she ends up on the floor. Let the inevitable take place I reckon.
 
She will turn him into a unexploded bomb.Cant you ask her if you could discuss his feed and that feeding him this way will only increase his stress levels a contented horse on the right feed wouldnt be half as irrate.You have to think of your other liveries and safety of the whole yard and of course your own.You could also mention the farriers take on it all he wont continue to shoe a dangerous horse.Think you will have to take the bull by its horns and insist on a meeting .Im sure if you are diplomatic she will listen to reason.Good luck
 
Bos - if it's your livery yard you not only have the RIGHT but also the RESPONSIBILITY to ensure that the horse has the 5 freedoms and that includes correct feeding. Owners will always favour their own feeding systems I guess and some may lean towards one thing, some another. Some may lean towards more generous and some not. But if the way the owner feeds this horse is making it a danger to itself, to other people and to other horses then as YO you really can insist that she takes expert advice on this or moves the horse. Difficult I know.
 
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TBH I think she'll work it out for herself when her horse goes ballistic and she ends up on the floor. Let the inevitable take place I reckon.

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The YO has to turn the horse out and could well be put in danger by this horse which is clearly going stir crazy.
 
I have a dangerous and highly aggressive horse on my yard right now. Her problems are not feed related and she is not locked in a stable, she is out 24/7. I have spoken with her owner and I figured out a plan but unfortunately it went wrong so then I just decided to put the horse in a field just with her mother, well away from any other horses on my farm and well away from other boarders who want to go in and out of fields to collect their horses. Our situation hasn't changed, the horse is still highly aggressive, but at least for now I can keep the situation under control and not risk other people or their horses being injured.

If this horse was on my yard I might think that it could be a good idea to have this horse turned out 24/7. Is this an option?
 
Unfortunately I can't leave him out 24/7 as he will go mad if he hasn't got his field mate in his field. He has gone through a fence because he was first out. And gone through one as he was the last in his field - others in the fields next to him. The only horses we have out 24/7 at the moment are two small ponies - both mares and I won't have mares and geldings together especially not this chap as he is extremely possessive about mares.

He is a real sweetie in the field as long as he has others around him and is lovely in his stable as long as others are around him and not coming and going.

I did turn him out 24/7 when he arrived with us - but that was back in August and he lived out till mid November - he behaviour was always bad if he was brought in on his own but he did eventually settle. When she bought him he was on 3 large scoops of competition mix a day and he was bouncing off walls just standing in his stable and bucking. We took him off the competition mix and introduced him to the simple systems - then turned him out 24/7. Firstly on his own in an adjoining paddock and then after a couple of weeks in with 3 other geldings. He settled down, still threw his toys out the cot when in on his own. But if you ignored him he did eventually settle down. He was having a handful of feed each time he came in and then turned out to grass.

When the horses moved to the winter paddocks in November he came in at night and started having two feeds a day. All was Ok for a while then he started to be a nightmare to turn out. I discovered the owner had decided to start the weight gain feed. - She went away for a few days and his behaviour was so bad I took him off everything except the Lucinuts and his behaviour improved. the owner agreed to this feed and see what happened. Now she has 2 months later suddenly decided to add all the stuff above.
 
Hmm yes it definitely sounds like it is feed related. You have to say something about it because you realise how dangerous this horse could become. It's one thing if the owner is dealing with the horse on a daily basis but when others could be injured then you really do have to do something. I think you will just have to be very firm with her and say he has to come off the feed.
 
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