How to Ask a Horse to work 'up and together'?

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Ziggy_

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I've been riding a 7 year old gelding for a friend. When she got him he had no topline so we have done a lot of long and low work to build it up - hes now looking pretty good.

He can work consistently in a low outline and we have frequent stretching breaks too.

We want to start showing him in the summer (just really little local shows this year but he'll hopefully go a lot further next year) but need to kind of 'lift' him up a bit to work in a more classical outline. I'm prepared to build it up slowly but am confused as to how to begin to ask for a higher outline.

My mare started to do it automatically as she had been well schooled in the past, but its a first for him. Any ideas?
 
Try half halting & then lifting your hands slightly higher. In theory it's possible to move a horses head position through small movements on the bit - takes time to teach them though. Do you use a pessoa? If so, rather than putting the lines between the legs, clip them higher up the roller. Has worked for my 7 yo. I think side reins would work too.
 
I don't have a pessoa but side reins are the same - he works nicely with them low, but lift them and he goes hollow. Maybe time to invest in a pessoa?
 
Well i do like mine. I haven't needed to use side reins since. I'd start him on the long & low setting as it's less restrictive & then move it up. Perhaps if he's hollowing he's not tracking up? More impulsion with half halts should help.
 
I like my pessoa as well, I don't use it that often, but I feel she works quite well in it, I start on the low between the legs setting for about 10 minutes, for her to loosen up, then i shorten it on that setting a tad, for another 10 minutes. Then I change to the lowest side setting for 10-15 mins. I took the pessoa off yesterday after about 25 minutes, and she was still trotting round in a nice shape with no aids!
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But when riding, as I'm about this stage with my girl, my instructor tells me to lift my hands higher ( I carry them low anyway
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) And bring my hands together.
 
I must be really lucky. My horse had absolutely no top line when I bought him but he can now work in a much more up and together outline, We did all of the long and low work and then with the help of my instructor got him working in a beautiful outline. We have used no gadgets what so ever. No lunging in pessoa or side reins ( he's horrid on the lunge, spends most of his time thinking he's got to chase you!) all just ridden work. Lots of half halts, transitions and other muscle building exercises.
 
Hi, if he is listening and understanding your seat then it comes from there. Don't try and use your hands first, you may produce evasion and thus lose the back (and engine) of the horse.

Ride him in his soft low position, then as you ride a circle (easiest not to lose the shoulder or hollow) lift up your seat (as in taking in air lightening yourself), not actually wobbling about in the air.
Once he brings his back up to meet you, you will feel this lift, you are moving him further back onto his hocks, only and really ONLY when you have him working like this can you set a rein length that will work him into a higher outline. he will only maintain for a short period at first as this work is very hard.
Our horse that perform advanced work in a much higher outline take long time to be able to sustain higher positions.
What you don't want to do at this point is create a 'false' or forced outline as this will affect future progress and also his ability to work more advanced in time.

He must learn that this higher outline is still light, forward and carrying his weight back and not leaning on a gadget or even worse your hands!
Nothing worse than a horse who leans on the hand.

Sounds like you're heading in the right direction with working him first to build and shape him, and low to keep him soft.

Good luck.x
 
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