How to control serious temper tantrums - horse not me

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My horse has always been a very difficult animal and he has explosive temper tantrums, the latest on Fri. It always happens when he doesn't get his own way ie in this case not getting in from the field early enough for his liking. So many things set him off, even the most basic of requests. I have tried all manner of professionals to help and he is 8 so not a baby. He is very intelligent and all his tantrums are airborn in that under saddle he will rear vertically if he doesn't want to do something and in hand on friday he also reared and struck out with his front legs before cantering off, I grabbed him again and the same thing happened and he takes himself off into his stable. He wears a dually which I bought following a suggestion but it makes no difference as he is too strong. He is a big 16'2 warmblood and this is quite frightening.

So does anyone have any suggestions please.
 
I would try leading him in a chiffney. You should get lots more control when leading and this will help with the rearing. If you are not clear on how to use one ask an experienced friend to help as they are severe.

Good Luck
 
I was always told to carry an egg in my pocket, so that when you know he is going to throw a tantrum, take it out (Which really is easier said than done when your trying to control him with one hand on the reins) just as he starts to rear crack the egg between his ears!
Apparently horses hate the sensation of this running down their skin, so he will associate the rearing with that horrible sensation...it does make sense but Rearing is a hard habbit to break!...

Am watching this post with interest...
Good luck. x
 
It sounds like your horse has the upper hand and needs to learn some respect. However, this learned behaviour will take a while to eradicateand whilst not impossible would necessitate handling with extreme care. You say he wears a dually halter and that it makes no difference to his in hand work, but can you honestly say that he, and more importantly YOU understand the principles of pressure and release, etc when using these type of headcollars? There is not much point using these tools if you are not using them correctly, and I know that the basic principle takes time to get used to. You will never beat a horse when it comes to strength so somehow you need to outwit him. I.e a horse that won't walk forward through or past something, make it walk backwards past the obstacle. A horse who threatens to fall over when you pick out his feet - let him fall over. Your horse for instance knows that by threatening you by rearing you will let go of him (of course you would) so he can then take charge of the situation by fleeing to his stable, no doubt having a good laugh at how much he scared you in the process. Therefore he has won his little battle. Maybe if you had of taken him back to the field immediately you were able he wouldn't have been so keen to do the same thing a second time, but who knows. He has to learn that this rearing and striking out with his legs will have consequences to him if he continues with this action, but quite how you go about this I am not really sure - I am no expert, my horse (a 17.1hh warmblood) frightens me most of the time too! I think your best course of action would be to get him checked over to see he is not in any pain, ie, teeth, back, saddle. I know this is a pain for you but then you have a blank canvas to work from, knowing that any problems you encounter are physcoligical and not due to physical pain of some sort. Next I would enlist the help of someone like Richard Maxwell, who specialises in the unconfrontual method. Getting someone to beat your horse (not saying you would mind) will not help your cause long term, no matter how it helps initialy. Not cheap I know, but once you can understand and learn the basic principles it is a something that will last you for your entire life, so well worth the expense. It is a shame that you are losing your confidence which undoubtedly you will be to some degree.
 
We have used the egg trick before and it does work. My sister bought a horse that reared (didn;t know before we bought him). You need to be prepared for the rear, he used to go up when you went from halt to walk. As they go up smash the egg on top of his head, as soon as it cracks get off and put him straight in his stable, don't wipe the egg off leave it on. The smell of the protein and the feeling scares them.

I would also start to lead him about in a chiffney and generally start make sure you are in control rather than him.

good luck

x x
 
My previous horse had to be led in a chifney. It is not a dangerous bit unless it is used in the wrong hands, but as Pilib said you are best getting someone to show you first. Just remember never ever tie up in a chifney, not even for a second, if the horse pulls back and the bailing twine exerts force before it breaks the horse will break its jaw. However a chifney will only gloss over the problem, it will not actually resolve it.
 
Yes I agree with the egg though easier said than done on past experance, eggs ended up everywhere but the head, but if you can get it def worth a try. My 17hh bless him had major tantrums I lead him in chiffney everywhere for about 6 months and eventually we stopped the rearing and strikeing out and could then go back to headcollar, I also was very careful on what he was fed. As for riding him he would buck, bolt and stamp his feet, and if you give him a smack god help you it made him worse, we put him in a dublin waterford for the bolting and just ignored the rest of the behaviour and not played into it again easier said than done, always end on a good note praise to the high hills when well behaved. It took 3 years to settl him but he still had that edge about him sadly after 3 years of getting him to settle he bloomin got colic and very sadly had to be pts. Hope you find a way to sort your horse out
 
I absolutely agree with what you are saying and I have had help with the use of the dually which works perfectly when he is in control but these explosive episodes mean he just takes off. On friday when I grabbed him the second time I spun him round to take him back to the field and because he knew where he was going he reared up and took off again. The professionals have all said it is like a lightbulb going off in his head and he has no control over himself until he gets his own way, there is not a reasoning process here. I have used Richard Maxwell for a previous horse with great results but no-one can reach this horse.

He has good manners most of the time and he's not unruly in the main but its these explosive episodes that are alarming.

As for cracking eggs I have heard this before but there is no way I for one could reach the top of his head in hand as he is taller than me and the under saddle rears are just so quick out of the blue I wouldn't have time to get an egg out my pocket etc
 
This is a bit of a 'hobby horse' of mine
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but having had a TBx who was days from being shot, and ending up with a total sweetheart, please look at cutting out all feed but forage, for at least two weeks, preferably three and then re-introducing one element of feed at a time. Our mare was intolerant of cereal and sugar, to such an extent that she was dangerous to lead, with two people and in a bridle! We stopped sugar initially (mollasses in particular) and she appeared to go into withdrawl for three days, we later stopped all cereal and she changed completely. We had to be very careful though as well meaning people gave her treats, even a couple of polo mints would return her to nut job status. She also had much better muscle tone etc. I find it very interesting that he is doing this at bringing in time, we think ours needed her next 'fix' of whatever she shouldn't have. She also did the same stuff under saddle and nearly ended up with her and my sister under a waggon. We think now that she had a headache and the noise of the waggon tipped her over the edge. We also noted that she had dreadful muscle tension at times. I also have a human client who has similar problems and has 'recovered' her mental health since her food intolerances have been addressed. Please pm me if you want any more info
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I have heard of this trick with the egg before. However as horses are 'into pressure' animals they could well rear higher in the long run. The best suggestion whilst sitting on a rearing horse is to use a wip wop which is a length of soft nylon rope which you loop over a hand. When the horse rears you flick the rope under his belly. You have to be a balanced rider to carry this out and experienced to boot. The idea of the wip wop is that in the wild horses are attacked by wild dogs. The only way a wild dog can safely bring down a huge animal like a horse is to tear its belly open so the insides come out and the horse will obviously slow and fall when this happens and therefore the dogs are able to finish it off more effectively. Therefore the horse feels extremely vulnerable when its belly is exposed, and the idea of the wip wop is when it feels something at its belly it will instantly come back down to earth as millions of years of instict and self preservation kick in. The horse knows the wip wop is not a wild dog, but instict tells it to bring its front legs down, so it does so in order to protect is vulnerability.
 
Thankyou I have been aware of the feeding implications as when he was being backed they could only feed him chaff n nuts as to keep him sane to a degree. The difficulty is finding something that keeps his weight on.

He is currently fed chaff , nuts, NAF Magic calmer and ad lib hay.
 
I do have a wip wop but he has learnt to rear away from it so I can't reach him and I would never try it under saddle as I wouldn't trust him not to bronc me off.

Thankyou everyone for your help and suggestions so far.
 
I find Allen and paige calm and condition very good for putting weight on without adding fizz, but every horse is different.
 
IME Topspec calmer is much better and more effective than NAF Magic so maybe worth trying that. Topspec calmer is really expensive compared to NAF but so so much better.

I would get an IH recommended associate out. I used a lady in Witney in Oxon (Rosie something, can't remember her surname i'm afriad) for my 17.1hh IDx who had temper tantrums at the trailer. She sorted him out in half an hour, but he was a much easier case. I know she also takes horses in for schooling for as long as needed, so it may be worth speaking to her to see if she would have him for a few weeks? It will be expensive but I think it would be worth it. I think the centre in Witney is Kelly Mark's own place...??
 
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I have heard this too, I think they think it is blood and that they have cracked their own head.

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doesnt work..nor does smacking them between the front legs....

the rearing in hand is easy to stop...lunge line, chiffney and Mr Blue-Pipe.

if you assert your authority on the ground, and he KNOWS he isnt going to get away with any sh1t, then tackling his piggy behaviour up top should become easier.

you must be firm...but above all consistant.
 
I have already tried an IH person and she tried initially to round pen him but he took no interest in her at all and she didn't appear very experienced. I have been given another name but tbh I have had so many people stumped by him I am wary of spending more and more money.
 
Yep ! I was told that by my Grandfather 40 something years ago, but how you carry an egg in your pocket without it breaking I don't know ! Another thing I was told, when a horse rears out of temper on the ground to have a long line on him and whack him with a schooling whip under his belly.......never had to try it myself
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I have heard this too, I think they think it is blood and that they have cracked their own head.

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doesnt work..nor does smacking them between the front legs....

the rearing in hand is easy to stop...lunge line, chiffney and Mr Blue-Pipe.


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Hi JMO7- do you mind explaining this a bit more please? What is Mr Blue-pipe?
blush.gif
lol
I am reading thread trying to get ideas for my own horse, Can u recommend anything for a yearling? As I obv couldnt use a chiffney...x
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have heard this too, I think they think it is blood and that they have cracked their own head.

[/ QUOTE ]

doesnt work..nor does smacking them between the front legs....

the rearing in hand is easy to stop...lunge line, chiffney and Mr Blue-Pipe.


[/ QUOTE ]


Hi JMO7- do you mind explaining this a bit more please? What is Mr Blue-pipe?
blush.gif
lol
I am reading thread trying to get ideas for my own horse, Can u recommend anything for a yearling? As I obv couldnt use a chiffney...x

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Mr Blue-Pipe is just a short piece of Dairy piping....make a lot of noise but doesnt hurt too much.
a sharp crack is all they need...

in the case of your yearling, put a lead chain over his nose..equally effective for youngsters...
 
Riding wise, keep going forwards. Get on and get trotting and no matter what keep going forwards. A horse has to stop to rear, so spend as little time as possible in walk and halt and avoid letting him jam the brakes on in the first place. I know its easier said than done, and by no means a cure, but it helps with most to keep riding forward positively, if a bit faster than you would like.
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I'm with JM07 - 2ft 6ins of Blue Pipe the best bit of yard equipment ever purchased. If I am bringing/turning out wayward horses or if the weather is wild I only have to take Mr Blue Pipe to guide them and all 3 behave impeccably - only 1 has ever been prodded with it though?!

Striking out with the front feet can be v dangerous sounds like a hard hat job..
 
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Next I would enlist the help of someone like Richard Maxwell, who specialises in the unconfrontual method. Getting someone to beat your horse (not saying you would mind) will not help your cause long term, no matter how it helps initialy.

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I'm sorry, but since when does not using NH methods mean that the horse gets beaten? Why do people think that if you use traditional methods you must be beating 10 bells out of your horse????
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Couple of things spring to mind.

1. This horse is not for you - move him on to more experienced hands.

2. Dually's are horrid. I've yet to meet a horse that likes them, and some can doesn't react violently to them. And if he's getting away from you with one on, and lead rope attached - then he runs the risk of doing some serious damage to himself.

3. How much work is he doing? Is his brain occupied?

4. What exactly are the triggers when being ridden?

5. How 'good' is his routine?
 
Are you saying that every owner that has an issue with their horse should just get rid, horses are not machines, we speak a different language and are bound to sometimes get it wrong, but getting rid is not an option because

a, for all his troubles I love him
b, he has never hurt anyone
c, I don't agree with passing difficult horses on to some un suspecting person who could have their heart or worse broken
d, he is my responsibility and I want to help him
e, if he ever went anywhere that hurt him I would never forgive myself and with a troubled horse you can never be sure where they will end up.

He is not habitually difficult, its just these episodes I want help with.
 
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Are you saying that every owner that has an issue with their horse should just get rid, horses are not machines, we speak a different language and are bound to sometimes get it wrong, but getting rid is not an option because

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Was this to me???

If it was you have completely missed my point. Some horses are simply not for some people - and there is absolutley nothing wrong with moving a horse on if it is too much for you to handle. He has not hurt anyone yet.

I have a beautiful, talented, wonderful horse - that I would like to sell. Why? Because he ideally needs someone a little more experienced than me. Doesn't mean I don't adore him. I simply don't have the experience necessary to make our partnership work as it should do.

Anyway - points 1 - 5 anything??
 
[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying that every owner that has an issue with their horse should just get rid, horses are not machines, we speak a different language and are bound to sometimes get it wrong, but getting rid is not an option because

a, for all his troubles I love him
b, he has never hurt anyone
c, I don't agree with passing difficult horses on to some un suspecting person who could have their heart or worse broken
d, he is my responsibility and I want to help him
e, if he ever went anywhere that hurt him I would never forgive myself and with a troubled horse you can never be sure where they will end up.

He is not habitually difficult, its just these episodes I want help with.

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VERY Well said! I love people like you who want to help their horses rather than just pass them on or just put them to sleep! Fair play for sticking with him...

However, I think AM meant professional people as apposed to selling him on without acknowleding his problems...

I hope u both get through this without getting hurt...x
 
1. This horse is not for you - move him on to more experienced hands.

Seems pretty clear statement to me, nothing there indicates I have misinterpreted your comments, besides not everything is black and white and the OP wasn't about whether I should move him.
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