How to explain the importance of a well fitted saddle...

[9tails]

I would just tell her that she will end up hurting the horse if she carries on riding in that saddle! Hopefully that will be enough to get her to book one as she surely cares about them!

Before doing this, it's best to get the other liveries onside. Because there always seems to be that one person who then tells the girl that she's absolutely fine and you're talking codswallop. That's the person she'll listen to.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I despair - I am public enemy number one in the eyes of one owner at my yard for dare speaking up about their horse on DIY that wasn't just left out when they didn't come up for 3 months.
I would be contacting the parents and having a very blunt conversation with them about how it is animal abuse to ride a pony in tack that doesn't fit and use the shoe analogy, about how much it may cost for them to get the vet out to it's lameness or back issues, or how much of a shame it will be when the pony starts throwing their darling daughter off.

 

[ycbm]

Not really relevant how often yard owner visits. Any land/ yard owner has a duty of care to animals on their property.

Does that duty extend as far as saddle fitting for someone who just rents out a field?

 

[Velcrobum]

Could you involve local BHS welfare officer??

 

[SpotsandBays]

Does that duty extend as far as saddle fitting for someone who just rents out a field?

I don’t think it does. Some land owners that rent out aren’t necessarily horse people so might not know any better. My dad being one of those! He would however know if a horse isn’t being looked after properly in a sense of it doesn’t have adequate hay, water or feed - it’s not well etc, as he’s a farmer and has looked after livestock for many many many years - but even then I guess there’s land owners who might not know that either! (Edited to add, although they should at least be able to identify if basic care is good or not!)

 

[teddypops]

Does that duty extend as far as saddle fitting for someone who just rents out a field?

She said it wasn’t being fed enough and didn’t have enough bedding.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I know of a very similar situation. Like talking to a wall. I was so eager to learn at this girl's age (late teens) and still am! I don't know what to do about people like this. I've never heard of a YO getting involved re saddle fit unless there were visible sores or something of that nature.

It kills me a bit because this pony doesn't stand a chance with such a non receptive owner.

 

[Alibear]

Sometimes the only option is positive action, would the pony likely fit one of the synthetic adjustable saddles that are out there better?
If so perhaps people could keep their eye out for a cheap 2nd hand one and either, share those with the girl as better options or if someone's really generous buy it and then offer her to try of it, like you are with your half pad, just to fix things?
I know its not helping in the long run but its the only way I can see to quickly help the pony. Or I'd call WHW and see if someone could pop out and pick up with the family about what horse care really entails?

 

[fredflop]

Sometimes the only option is positive action, would the pony likely fit one of the synthetic adjustable saddles that are out there better?
If so perhaps people could keep their eye out for a cheap 2nd hand one and either, share those with the girl as better options or if someone's really generous buy it and then offer her to try of it, like you are with your half pad, just to fix things?
I know its not helping in the long run but its the only way I can see to quickly help the pony. Or I'd call WHW and see if someone could pop out and pick up with the family about what horse care really entails?

again I’d say tricky one. In my “scenario” above I’d be told you’ve already got a saddle I’m not buying another one. Although granted we would have bought a properly fitted saddle to start with.

 

[sbloom]

Sometimes the only option is positive action, would the pony likely fit one of the synthetic adjustable saddles that are out there better?

Only a saddle fitter can tell you that (except in exceptional cases where people really know what they're doing) so it's a bit of a circular discussion.

 

[ycbm]

She said it wasn’t being fed enough and didn’t have enough bedding.

She said the feeding had been corrected and the bedding is a matter of opinion. It has some, and unless the pony has sores then it would be difficult to prove that it doesn't have "enough". Is there any serious likelihood of a land owner being prosecuted for animal welfare violations on the basis of what we know for a pony in a set of facilities they rent out, rarely visit and have no input into? I wouldn't have thought so.

I can't see any point in attempting to involve the landowner in this, and even if they are technically partially responsible, I don't see that it would be fair to do that.


ETA can anyone point me to the relevant law on this? All I can find is that the landowner has a duty of care to animals on their land only if the owner is not known or can't be contacted or if they are contracted by the owner/ keeper to provide services.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Yeah it’s definitely a money issue after the short conversation I’ve just had. Got a little blunt but the dismissive attitude was annoying me a little. Told her in no uncertain terms that her saddle doesn’t fit and fitter needs to come sooner rather than later imo. Explained the cost of fixing a back and lameness problems. Sent her over some interesting articles on saddle fitting. Like talking to a brick wall.

I’ve given all the advice I can, I will say that I need my half pad back next week and we’ll see what happens. YO won’t get involved, the pony is now getting the right amount of hay for its size and yes the bedding is thin but it’s clean and they come twice daily and is seen by a farrier. If we as a yard had dire concerns we would speak to her and she’d likely have them off sharpish but as others have said plenty of people ride with badly fitting saddles. Just a shame for this very sweet little mare, though she has recently started refusing fences so they might get a wake up call soon.

If you get the opportunity to speak to the father, that is probably your most likely route to success. Did they buy the tack with the pony?

 

[cauda equina]

Perhaps try an indirect approach?
Drip feed the importance of correct saddle fit by frequent references to positive anecdotes; how X's horse went so much better after its saddle was reflocked, that sort of thing. Invent things if necessary
Nudges rather than confrontation

 

[teddypops]

She said the feeding had been corrected and the bedding is a matter of opinion. It has some, and unless the pony has sores then it would be difficult to prove that it doesn't have "enough". Is there any serious likelihood of a land owner being prosecuted for animal welfare violations on the basis of what we know for a pony in a set of facilities they rent out, rarely visit and have no input into? I wouldn't have thought so.

I can't see any point in attempting to involve the landowner in this, and even if they are technically partially responsible, I don't see that it would be fair to do that.


ETA can anyone point me to the relevant law on this? All I can find is that the landowner has a duty of care to animals on their land only if the owner is not known or can't be contacted or if they are contracted by the owner/ keeper to provide services.

Now it has.....

 

[laura_nash]

If it’s a welfare issue, the yard owner has to get involved. They can’t just ignore it.

Thats all very well in theory, but here in the real world I can only see four possible results if OP goes complaining to a totally hands-off, probably non-horsey YO that a pony is being ridden in a badly fitted saddle and they have to intervene as its a welfare issue and therefore their responsibility:

1. YO chucks the girl and her pony off the yard, since he/she didn't get bothered with complaints before they are arrived so they are obviously causing trouble with the other, established liveries. Not sure this will improve the ponies welfare much.

2. YO chucks the OP off the yard, either because they didn't like being bothered with this stuff by them, or because they decide OP is obviously not suited to this type of pure DIY yard and would be better moving to one with a hands-on, horsey YO.

3. YO is so worried by the suggestion that they are legally responsible for the welfare of the horses on the yard to this extent, they decide to close the entire yard and sell it for housing / rent it as a whole to someone.

4. YO tells OP not to be ridiculous and to go away.

 

[teddypops]

Thats all very well in theory, but here in the real world I can only see four possible results if OP goes complaining to a totally hands-off, probably non-horsey YO that a pony is being ridden in a badly fitted saddle and they have to intervene as its a welfare issue and therefore their responsibility:

1. YO chucks the girl and her pony off the yard, since he/she didn't get bothered with complaints before they are arrived so they are obviously causing trouble with the other, established liveries. Not sure this will improve the ponies welfare much.

2. YO chucks the OP off the yard, either because they didn't like being bothered with this stuff by them, or because they decide OP is obviously not suited to this type of pure DIY yard and would be better moving to one with a hands-on, horsey YO.

3. YO is so worried by the suggestion that they are legally responsible for the welfare of the horses on the yard to this extent, they decide to close the entire yard and sell it for housing / rent it as a whole to someone.

4. YO tells OP not to be ridiculous and to go away.

It was more about the lack of food and bedding. Or, the YO could speak to pony owner and tell them they need to feed it more & give it more bedding.

 

[Lammy]

Have just read through everyone’s replies thanks all for the ideas.

Annoyingly the next time anyone is due a saddle fitting visit will be March/April which is me and about half the yard. So we will invite her onto that but 2/3 months is a long time for the poor pony.

I don’t really think the YO can do anything about saddle fit, as I said pony is now being given enough hay and I don’t think there’s any legal definition of not enough bedding? Plus it’s clean and mucked out daily so I don’t think there’s much they can do there and it’s looked after in every other way.

The instructor thing is a good idea thanks and I might try it at some point when restrictions ease up, haven’t been having lessons at the moment due to lockdown though. But that could work as I have a good relationship with her.

It’s just frustrating me more because the pony isn’t in light work. She’s jumped twice a week 90-1m in height and schooled every day in between jump days so it’s hard work enough for a 5 year old let alone in a poorly fitting saddle

 

[muddybay]

Have just read through everyone’s replies thanks all for the ideas.

Annoyingly the next time anyone is due a saddle fitting visit will be March/April which is me and about half the yard. So we will invite her onto that but 2/3 months is a long time for the poor pony.

I don’t really think the YO can do anything about saddle fit, as I said pony is now being given enough hay and I don’t think there’s any legal definition of not enough bedding? Plus it’s clean and mucked out daily so I don’t think there’s much they can do there and it’s looked after in every other way.

The instructor thing is a good idea thanks and I might try it at some point when restrictions ease up, haven’t been having lessons at the moment due to lockdown though. But that could work as I have a good relationship with her.

It’s just frustrating me more because the pony isn’t in light work. She’s jumped twice a week 90-1m in height and schooled every day in between jump days so it’s hard work enough for a 5 year old let alone in a poorly fitting saddle

Just wondering how experienced is the owner?

 

[Lammy]

Just wondering how experienced is the owner?

Not very but she’s very brave I’ll give her that! She’s gone from riding school to exercising someone’s pointers to first pony quite quickly. I don’t think the correct way of going is her aim more, getting good videos and pictures for social media... ??‍

 

[skint1]

Poor pony, perhaps if he starts having a little buck or refusing to work then they might be more receptive to the idea of sorting the saddle.

 

[laura_nash]

It was more about the lack of food and bedding. Or, the YO could speak to pony owner and tell them they need to feed it more & give it more bedding.

Chances of that happening are around nil though. We only have OP's opinion on that (I'm not suggesting they are wrong, but it is just an opinion) and there is no suggestion pony is seriously underweight, developing capped hocks / sores from the lack of bedding or being actively neglected in any reportable way. No non-horsey YO is going to try and impose something on a livery based on the word of another livery - maybe, possibly, if a vet or welfare organisation contacted them with concerns and even then more likely to just get rid rather than try and coach the livery in something they themselves don't know anything about.

Once, as a young and naive teenager, I had my pony on a pure DIY yard like this for a short while and approached the YO because a fellow livery's pony hadn't left its stable in 3 weeks and was only mucked out once a week. YO was a farmer and pointed out his cows hadn't left their shed in 2 months or been mucked out once (this was winter) so none of my business.

 

[laura_nash]

Poor pony, perhaps if he starts having a little buck or refusing to work then they might be more receptive to the idea of sorting the saddle.

Unfortunately I suspect this is the only way it will get sorted, lets hope the pony isn't too stoic.

Obviously if the girl asks for advice or help with any "mis-behaviour" or complains about pony stopping / running out OP (and ideally everyone else on the yard) needs to point out it is obviously due to the saddle and should be expected. If the girl hacks out at all and asks for company I would also refuse as I wouldn't be comfortable riding alongside a pony I knew was in discomfort, plus I would be worried about high likelihood of pony objecting violently at some point, and I would be very clear about why I was refusing.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

The child can't do anything about buying a new saddle, the people to talk to are the parents. I would stress the safety aspect and be very clear that the current saddle will have a monetary value.

 

[gemisastar]

I like the earlier poster's idea of finding a cheap adjustable thorowgood/wintec which even if not 100% perfect has surely got to be better than the current saddle, bearing in mind these saddles can be bought to suit a variety of shapes (that would be assuming that this pony is not a wildly unusual shape)? What saddle does the pony currently have, has it got any value that could be offset against the cost of a better fitting one if the owner could be persuaded?

 

[SEL]

I tend to find you almost have to make a bit of a joke with people like this (& I've seen worse - unsound horses being ridden, let alone saddle fit)

'one day that saddle will fly off backwards and take you with it'.
'you spend more time getting off to put that back on properly than you do riding'

and then walk away and let them have a think.

That kind of thing. When people won't listen to common sense said sensibly they will sometimes listen to to humour.

I find absent YO really don't want to get involved and that's even been the case when the RSPCA were involved for an obese laminitic pony.

 

[Lammy]

The child can't do anything about buying a new saddle, the people to talk to are the parents. I would stress the safety aspect and be very clear that the current saddle will have a monetary value.

I will try to catch the dad next week, he hasn’t been around the past couple of weeks but he does work shifts so he should appear next week. He is the one we eventually got through to about the hay so will just have to time it right.

I like the earlier poster's idea of finding a cheap adjustable thorowgood/wintec which even if not 100% perfect has surely got to be better than the current saddle, bearing in mind these saddles can be bought to suit a variety of shapes (that would be assuming that this pony is not a wildly unusual shape)? What saddle does the pony currently have, has it got any value that could be offset against the cost of a better fitting one if the owner could be persuaded?

I just feel like this would be swapping one ill-fitting saddle for another. Plus the fact I haven’t really got the spare cash to just buy a saddle for someone else no matter how cheap. Not sure what brand or make their current saddle is, it was bought a with the pony, as far as I can tell it’s unbranded and well worn.

I tend to find you almost have to make a bit of a joke with people like this (& I've seen worse - unsound horses being ridden, let alone saddle fit)

'one day that saddle will fly off backwards and take you with it'.
'you spend more time getting off to put that back on properly than you do riding'

and then walk away and let them have a think.

That kind of thing. When people won't listen to common sense said sensibly they will sometimes listen to to humour.

I have heard a few other people on the yard laughingly point out that her saddle is so far back she’ll be flying off behind soon. She just laughed back said I know and carried on so I’m not sure there’s much getting through to her tbh.

 

[sbloom]

I like the earlier poster's idea of finding a cheap adjustable thorowgood/wintec which even if not 100% perfect has surely got to be better than the current saddle, bearing in mind these saddles can be bought to suit a variety of shapes (that would be assuming that this pony is not a wildly unusual shape)? What saddle does the pony currently have, has it got any value that could be offset against the cost of a better fitting one if the owner could be persuaded?

No, it's not "got to be better" sadly, I see professionaly fitted Wintec pony saddles that are dreadful, fitting ponies can be fairly tricky, hence the number of photos you see with saddles hanging off one side and/or half way over the shoulder. I am no fan of them for ponies (well, full stop, though of course they do work for some) and I fit a LOT of ponies, in very differently shaped saddles. Changeable headplates mean jack, tree shape and panel shape, and selecting the right size and, and, and....all just as important.