How to get a soft, obedient rein back?

[OneInAMillion]

I know there are some very clever people on here who I thought could help me!

Before anyone starts FH has had every check possible done and is not in pain etc etc

Here goes!

FH has been learning to do rein back. He is getting really responsive and stepping back as asked instantly. However he throws his head violently as he takes his first couple of steps and then sometimes settles down or he just does his best giraffe impression Now I know he is new to it but if there is something I can do so throwing his head doesn't become a habit it would be useful! Or is it a case of as he gets more established at it and therefore finds it easier he will step back much more quietly without throwing his head?

I don't mind anything that could help, as FH has shown everyone who knows him shortcuts don't work so I'm used to slow and steady with him!

Thanks in advance

 

[Holidays_are_coming]

Very good question Id be interested in the answers too!!! My mare is very similar, the only thing I found which helped her a little was having a play out hacking, where she least expects it!!!!

 

[millitiger]

does he do it nicely from the ground?

what aids are you using when asking?
will he rein back off your legs/seat/voice and not using the rein? it sounds like he is resisting the rein.

 

[3DE]

I teach from the ground with the command back then translate it to ridden.

Move your legs slightly back and nudge for forwards, but close your fingers round the reins to block the forwards movement, using the command 'back' and your horse should reverse. If the horse swings out to either side just apply more leg to that side.

There should be no pulling back on the reins though.

I find a nudge on alternate sides encourages the individual lifting of the back legs in a rhytmical manner.

 

[OneInAMillion]

does he do it nicely from the ground?

what aids are you using when asking?
will he rein back off your legs/seat/voice and not using the rein? it sounds like he is resisting the rein.

He finds it easy peasy on the ground. I don't pull on his mouth but just hold so he doesn't think to go forwards and use a little leg and voice. Oh and I'm not sure if it makes a difference but he always finds it easier if he alongside something eg a fence or hedge.

 

[jules89]

silly question but are u shifting your weight/shoulders ever so slightly forwards when asking?

 

[Bryndu]

According to a BD Accredited Trainer I recently watched...you halt the horse and rider at A, then you take the longest schooling whip you can find, and whilst shouting..back...back...you BEAT it on each shin as it reverses away in panic.
Having done this a few times...you then have to scream at the rider to get her to make the horse stand still next to you so you can repeat the process.!!!! A TRUE story.
Bryndu

 

[OneInAMillion]

silly question but are u shifting your weight/shoulders ever so slightly forwards when asking?

I wonder if I might be thinking of pushing backwards with my seat which then in turn tips me slightly forwards?

 

[3DE]

I wonder if I might be thinking of pushing backwards with my seat which then in turn tips me slightly forwards?

Think squeezing your bum cheeks instead It works

You'll also find it pulls your shoulders back and makes you sit up

 

[flyingfeet]

Lots of practice - I think many people often can go through and entire schooling session without doing rein backs, which is why they find them so hard

My little polo pony is learning to back up, and she now knows to stop from the seat and if I keeping the seat in stop mode she will then back up until I sit up

This is actually a precursor to teaching her to sit on her haunches and turn, but she is now so used to doing them I don't touch her mouth, so no raised head

 

[Tnavas]

1 Establish a square halt with the horse remaining on the bit
2 Tilt the pelvis slightly forward to discourage the horse from hollowing his back.
3 Applies the legs on or slightly behind the girth
4 Prevents the inclination to go forward by restraining aids on the reins. Hold the contact.
5 Releases the pressure on the rein the moment the horse steps back.

Walks forward immediately and praises

It is vital that the rider doesn't pull back on the reins as the horse will then run back stiffly.

 

[jules89]

yeah as evelyn says i was taught to squeeze bum as someone else says and ever so slightly shift pelvis so weight isn't on back of saddle at all. good luck!

 

[KatB]

If they're resisting the hand, change your aid My mare reins back from purely leg and seat aids, and I almost give the hand forward before asking so she feels no restriction. If you;reteaching from scratch, they will learn to do it from whatever aid you choose to use

 

[Tempi]

I am surprised no one has mentioned the most important part of rein-back which is to push down in the stirrups and totally lighten your seat as if you are almost hovering on the saddle. This will stop the hollowing, as the horse will hollow because the seat is blocking the movement. For the horse to be able to move backwards freely and without hollowing the seat MUST be light.

Your halt has to be square, lighten your seat, push down in your stirrups and move your legs slightly back, keep your fingers closed around the rein (make sure your reins are short enough, so many people have their reins too long in RB), and then ask with your legs for the RB - by keeping the fingers closed on the rein it stops the forwards movement. The arms must be relaxed though as otherwise you will get the resistance.

 

[K27]

They should be off the leg, straight and (instead of forward!) backwards!

I lighten my seat very slightly, and ask them to step backwards (not to quickly), the hand momentarily restricts them going forwards and as soon as they have gone back a step, it must allow. I've always been taught that the feel and contact must be consistent and the horse must always remain round and light in the bridle. Rein backs are a brilliant exercise to free their lower backs and to get them really stepping under.

 

[kerilli]

lots of good answers already, i'll just add that i teach mine to rein back from both of my legs sliding right back, this is the aid, that way i don't need to do anything with my hands at all, they stay quiescent, the same as at a nice established halt. if there's no pull back, there's no reason for the horse to chuck head and resist.
the halt must be a really good correct square forward-thinking halt though, and you must rein back just after halting; halting and waiting say 5 seconds and then asking for rein back is incorrect, it has to be just after halting so the horse is still thinking of moving forward, rather than accepting he's going to stand there for a while.

Bryndu, unfortunately that story doesn't surprise me.

 

[tristar]

gently hold the reins on a very light contact, move the legs back hold quietly with weight in stirrups, lean VERY slightly forward so you lift weight of bottom very slightly, think BACKWARDS, hey presto! done this on lots and its worked first time on animals never done it before, so why does bd instructor need to beat up horse? its so easy, just goes to show how clever horses are if given the chance

 

[pinktiger]

my chap has just started rein back and i half halt to halt, then maintain my contact but no more,keep ( i know it sounds weird a forward into halt attitude and the impulsion is then directed into that reinback)!!!! Itilt my pelvis and bring my calves back to well behind the girth. lighten the seat and alow the back to be soft and over into the contact, that allows straight steps in the diagonals to be correct!! Unless you have the relaxed back you will be unable to show good diagonal steps in rein back!! I did alot from the ground and then i had someone on the ground to guide him back initially using the aides for rein back only had to do it a couple of times and he picked it up! Its really good to have support on the ground as a rein back can feel totally different to how it looks!!! Hope that makes sense ive read it back and i know what i mean but dont know how well i ve explained it!!!

 

[tristar]

i think all movements should have an element of forwardness impulsion even going backwards, to be classical, almost like a kind of engagement, or in gear feeling, maybe it is this that leads to rein back being straight and not wobbly or crooked.

 

[Steorra]

I just lighten my seat (press lightly on the stirrups like I would on an accelerator pedal) and slip both legs slightly back. That way there is no hand aid to resist, the light seat allows the horse to lift rather than hollow, and because this method makes me sit evenly the horse tends to go straight.

 

[bigboyrocky]

This is going to sound like a really nupty Q with probably a v obv answer, but (and sorry to hijack thread) Rocky is pretty established with his rein back (or so i think) Once hes halted, as soon as i move my legs back he steps backwards... from everyones replies, im now wondering if i should have to have more of a contact in the rein back? My contact doenst change and its purely down to my legs...

 

[Mike007]

How to get a soft, obedient rein back? Spend a season opening and shutting gates out hunting!. Horses are the ultimate readers of subliminal signals and frankly all this buisness of seat and pressure in stirrups reins etc is all very well for a numpty dressage horse ,but try to do it at a gate out hunting!A good hunter learns cause and effect and to read the wishes of his rider. (try asking for a reinback while hanging out sideways with your fingertips on an awkward gate!A good hunter reads his rider and will comply. Strangely enough ,all my hunters have been "naturals "at rein back outside of hunting.I seriously doubt that it is my skills in equitation but merely using the horses senses and empathy with the rider.This is one of those questions that sounds so simple but gets to the heart of horsemanship.

 

[OneInAMillion]

How to get a soft, obedient rein back? Spend a season opening and shutting gates out hunting!. Horses are the ultimate readers of subliminal signals and frankly all this buisness of seat and pressure in stirrups reins etc is all very well for a numpty dressage horse ,but try to do it at a gate out hunting!A good hunter learns cause and effect and to read the wishes of his rider. (try asking for a reinback while hanging out sideways with your fingertips on an awkward gate!A good hunter reads his rider and will comply. Strangely enough ,all my hunters have been "naturals "at rein back outside of hunting.I seriously doubt that it is my skills in equitation but merely using the horses senses and empathy with the rider.This is one of those questions that sounds so simple but gets to the heart of horsemanship.

Thanks for the reply. We do open as many gates as possible hacking but I would love to hunt but it really isn't an option with FH as he finds it terrifying and is too dangerous

 

[Steorra]

How to get a soft, obedient rein back? Spend a season opening and shutting gates out hunting!. Horses are the ultimate readers of subliminal signals and frankly all this buisness of seat and pressure in stirrups reins etc is all very well for a numpty dressage horse ,but try to do it at a gate out hunting!A good hunter learns cause and effect and to read the wishes of his rider. (try asking for a reinback while hanging out sideways with your fingertips on an awkward gate!A good hunter reads his rider and will comply. Strangely enough ,all my hunters have been "naturals "at rein back outside of hunting.I seriously doubt that it is my skills in equitation but merely using the horses senses and empathy with the rider.This is one of those questions that sounds so simple but gets to the heart of horsemanship.

I completely agree that riding can and should be instinctive, and that sometimes riders 'overthink' movements and exercises. And of course my horse works with me to open gates, hop over obstacles, step sideways away from other horses when I'm out hacking. Even though he is a 'numpty dressage horse' and by extension I am a 'numpty dressage rider'. However, recreating those movements from nothing, in an empty arena, so that I can perform them accurately in a dressage test, takes a little more thought.

Take flying changes, for example. When he jumps my horse changes lead as appropriate - I don't have to think about it or consciously ask, and it wasn't something I actively taught him.

However, to achieve dressage style changes, I had to think about the unconscious aids I give when jumping, and from those create a signal that means 'flying change'. For a while I had to think about it every time I asked, and over time my horse tuned in to the new signal.

Now, I don't need to think about asking for a change - the aid comes automatically again. Wherever, whenever, I think 'change' and get one. But getting to this point did take a little thought, and that is where OP is with her reinback. Telling us that riding is all about subliminal messages is all very well - I am sure no one would dispute that - especially numpty dressage riders. But sometimes translating the message and applying it in different circumstances takes some self awareness.

 

[Mike007]

I hope my flippant dig at dressage horses didnt offend you steorra. I actually found the replies to the OP really interesting .

 

[Steorra]

I hope my flippant dig at dressage horses didnt offend you steorra. I actually found the replies to the OP really interesting .

Nah

 

[OneInAMillion]

I hope my flippant dig at dressage horses didnt offend you steorra. I actually found the replies to the OP really interesting .

Nah

Phew! Thought I had started a fight then


Thanks for all the replies everyone

 

[daisycrazy]

Something I find works very well and seems logical to horses is to apply the alternating touches of the leg in a slightly backwards direction. This is a technique of Chris Bartle's.

If I want a horse to go forward, the touch of the leg will be ever so slightly a forward brushstroke. If I want them to move away from the leg laterally, the touch will be sideways, i.e. a simply static touch. If I want them to rein back, then I touch alternately on each side with a light and slightly backwards movement. This seems to work regardless of what other aids are applied and also seems to minimise any tendency for the head to shoot up. I suspect it works well partly because it encourages you to lift your seatbone slightly on the side of the hindleg which needs to step back, enabling the horse to lift its back.