How to join up?

By getting an intelligent horsemanship recommended associate to teach you. I've seen so many people stuffing up what they think is "join up" that I really wouldn't suggest any alternative.
 
do you have any showjumps you could arrange in a circle, or panal out the corners?
it would make it easier, horses tens to get 'stuck' in corners. If not it dosen't matter, i had to do it in a 5 acre field to try and get close to a 'wild' horse. Bring her to the field with a headcollar on and have with you a long line, preferably a light sash one. Stand in the centre and give her a rub on the head. Now move away and toward the rear of the horse, out of the way of the back legs. When you are behind, or she flees, which ever comes first, pitch the line toward her back end so the line falls on her, NOT HIT. She will take flight and procced around the field, she is retreating, so you must advance. Keep the pressure on.Keep pitching the line just enough to keep her going at a steady pace, you must maintain an aggressive mode: your eyes on hers, and your shoulder axis square with her head. Maintain forward movement as much as you can, but watch the back legs. You should aim for 5 or 6 revolutions each way, except that during the second direction you are reading the horse for a message that she would like to stop all this work. Watch the inside ear particularly.

The outside ear will will continue to move and obverve her surroundings. She will slow down, and/or do smaller circles, she will start to lick and chew, finaly she will run with her nose bobbing near the floor. The ear gives you respect, coming closer means just that. Licking and chewing is to say' i 'm a flight animal and i'm eating so i can't fear you'. Lowering her head means 'If we could have a meeting to renegotiate, i will let you be the chairman'. the more you do it the sharper your senses will be to her signals when you see her in this mode, she is asking you to take the pressure off, she wants to stop. At this point assume a submissive mode....... your eyes down, shoulder axis to a 45 degree position, you are inviting her to come to you, or at least look at you, stop retreating.If she comes thats great!!, if she stands and faces you but dosen't move, then you move closer, but in arcs or semi-circles (still in 45 degree position) if she walks away, send her back to work, then repeat the process. She should voluntarily come to you and touch you with her nose. thats join up.


When she comes to you, give her a rub between the eyes and walk away, moving in circles, it best to start going right first, then left, if she follows, thats follow up.

Sorry its so long, when i first started doing join up, no one explained to me properly what i had to do, so i hope ypu find this helpfull. I know i did.
 
mmmmm join up is not nonense - my lass batttered beatened no trust - was our first step forward and was awesome feeling to have her there no ropes no head collar - dont dwell on join up - think as a horse - put your self in thier hooves - no raised hands no loud voices - use body language eye contact - its damn amazing if allow it to work - read monty roberts on line and micheal peace (my hero) no whips no raised hands -read read read and enjoy xxx
 
Im trying to gain her trust- following on from my post about cow kicking! She was abused before i had her- she is a lot better with me but wondered if this would help to gain her trust?
Thanks for the info 'tinkandlily' :-) yes i do have poles so will get prepared!
 
nativeponies said:
TBH love, you don't want to be faffing with that nonense..just treat her like a horse and you'll be fine
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Agree - she is 9 years - win her over as an owner.......I find polos are great - and I have just introduced a 9 year old to tit bits - he had never had them - so did not understand why they were fab, until I force fed him one.......
Forget the join-up positioning an arena into a pen, hurling ropes at it......because why would you need to?? A 9 year old???? Help!!!
 
my mare was battered before i bought her -imagine 3 men pinning you down and kicking **** out of you -but is now going blind shes 12 - i saw a good horse i gave her time to trust me ( i hear the tutts in my head now from fellow liveries) i used join up and plain simple time patience and quiet love - now my dangerous unrideable mare as given me my first ride my first jump my first gallop - thank you monty for the join up theory - its damn fine it gave my mare a chance to trust and a chance of a life and she trusts now so much - shes so so damn great xxx
 
nativeponies said:
TBH love, you don't want to be faffing with that nonense..just treat her like a horse and you'll be fine
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All of my horses follow me around their paddocks - does this mean I've mastered join up?!! As above - mine are treated like normal horses, told off when they over step the mark, patted when they are good. The outcome is lovely horses with GOOD manners who respect me and do as they are told. Must admit I am not one for rewarding with food - yearling and 2yr old colts would be all over you.
 
nativeponies said:
TBH love, you don't want to be faffing with that nonense..just treat her like a horse and you'll be fine
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Huggly Horsemanship, on the other hand, is brilliant :)
Actually, NP makes a good point. Horses like to know where they stand. If you are fair but firm and establish limits (she must respect your personal space, etc) then she will derive comfort from that and see you as her leader. This is VERY important; I know people say "I want to be her friend, etc, etc" but horses, as herd animals, need guidance. If you do not provide it, then SHE will take charge. Join up basically does this; you send your horse away from you like the matriarch in the herd (assuming you're female of course) then 'welcome' them back into your herd. HOWEVER, join up is not the only way to achieve this relationship with your horse.
Here endeth my rambling. Good luck with your girl :)
 
I did Join Up with my boy and I have to say it was a rewarding and emotional experience for both of us. I see nothing wrong with using body language to aid your communication with your horse. I read Kelly Marks' book http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,flypage-ask.tpl/product_id,204/category_id,33/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,66/ and it explains the Join Up process quite clearly.
For me, it wasn't about "doing" Join Up, or becoming a disciple of "Natural/Intelligent Horsemanship", it was about trying something new with my horse and opening my mind to the whole concept of what I do with my body language can have an effect on my horse. As a small example, when I used to lunge him he would always turn in to face me, now I am aware that it was my body language that was inviting him to do so. Now I am aware of it and how to correct it he doesn't do it any more.
IMO the real "horse people" I know do this stuff already, it comes naturally to them and they don't give it the fancy name of "join up". Some of us (like me) just needed a little help to realise that body language plays a huge part in communicating with horses. The book I mentioned above was part of that "little help" for me!
If you want to try it, good luck. I hope you get as much out of it as I did.
 
I've read some tosh in my time but this thread probably takes the biscuit.
Because.......???

Good horsemanship is good horsemanship, understanding the behaviour and needs of horses does not require a label. It isn't just about whether the horse cocks the correct ear at you, it is about consistent handling day in day out with boundaries, discipline and consideration.
Join up is just a label for a process that is sold. Yes it can work if done correctly, it can really mess up a horse if done badly and for somebody to believe that this alone will impact on their relationship with their horse is naive and dangerous.

For every disciple of Monty and Michael Peace you will find people who have been unhappy either with how their horses have turned out following training by them or dissatisfied by what they have seen in public sessions....keep an open mind, there are useful things to be learned from many sources. Slavish dedication to just one is a mistake.
 
I don't agree with Join Up, I don't think that is is needed. However, from what I know of it, you possibly shouldn't necessarily be dong it with a nervous and timid horse. It's not suitable for all horses. Which is why I'm saying if you really want to do it, I think you should contact someone who understands the process and can help.
Don't get me started on Join Up... but I have to say... not all horses appreciate someone stepping up to them and rubbing them on the head.
 
Wasn't join up created when Monty had to break in several horses a day/ week and needed a fast method of gaining their trust? Would that not make it a shortcut, which means you miss out on that amount of time you take to learn to trust them? They know if you don't trust them and then it can turn sour.

Don't use it; take your time to learn eachother intimately and you'll find you trust eachother. My mare's been through something rough and I gained her trust by tapping her gently and showing her that I wouldn't hurt her. Until she raised a leg at me and I gave her one proper; hasn't done it since funny enough...
 
Aces_High said:
All of my horses follow me around their paddocks - does this mean I've mastered join up?!! As above - mine are treated like normal horses, told off when they over step the mark, patted when they are good. The outcome is lovely horses with GOOD manners who respect me and do as they are told. Must admit I am not one for rewarding with food - yearling and 2yr old colts would be all over you.
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Mine also follow me around the field, my gelding was badly beaten when I got him, year later a totally different horse. Just treat them well and correct bad behaviour etc.
 
the watcher said:
I've read some tosh in my time but this thread probably takes the biscuit.
Because.......???

Good horsemanship is good horsemanship, understanding the behaviour and needs of horses does not require a label. It isn't just about whether the horse cocks the correct ear at you, it is about consistent handling day in day out with boundaries, discipline and consideration.
Join up is just a label for a process that is sold. Yes it can work if done correctly, it can really mess up a horse if done badly and for somebody to believe that this alone will impact on their relationship with their horse is naive and dangerous.

For every disciple of Monty and Michael Peace you will find people who have been unhappy either with how their horses have turned out following training by them or dissatisfied by what they have seen in public sessions....keep an open mind, there are useful things to be learned from many sources. Slavish dedication to just one is a mistake.
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Join-Up -
It makes your horse feel vulnerable then an offer of friendship is readly accepted by your victim, not how I'd like to make friends.

In the wild it would be seen as life or death more screaming than 'whispering'
who ever is doing it.

This is not how MP works so don't get him confused with Monty Methods, which are based on Join-UP and pressure halters.
 
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I don't agree with the whole Natural Horsemanship thing or join-up as a means to break in a horse, and normally avoid these post like the plauge but, it has its uses in some situations.

The explanation given by Tink__? (sorry) is excellent if you can find anything on Youtube so you can get a visual on the 3 signals might help.
Try it once it cont hurt (as long as you dont beat the mare whilst sending her away... ;) ) however in my opinion/expereince it is no substitue for 'traditional' ground work to build trust and friendship between you and your horse, consider it an aid. However if she has been beaten extensively in her past it may not work, I have seen some one try several times with a horse, whom he thought it would help - didn't work horse never showed any of the 3 signs so he did other stuff.

I used to dismiss it as CRXP till an employer insisted I did it with all the youngsters, since then I've used it with a few 'problem' horses as another 'tool' and it does have its benefits.
 
better half said:
Join-Up -
It makes your horse feel vulnerable then an offer of friendship is readly accepted by your victim, not how I'd like to make friends.
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This has been my problem with this method all along, as it petends to be all softly, softly, people see it as 'natural' so it must be more humane than 'traditional' methods. Well, nature isn't always nice my dears just as humanity isn't always humane. If NH was more upfront and honest about what it was, I would have more respect for it.

If you have no idea how to use this method I would do as suggested and get a trainer in who has a lot of experience, otherwise I think it's just like anything; if you get it wrong you're more likely to do more harm than good, no?
 
Join up is something I'd avoid too - some horses don't take to it at all and it often makes things worse.
Time is the only thing that strengthens a bond - I bought a cob mare many years ago who had been badly treated and was covered in scars. She was so nervous and head shy, and would jump at the slightest touch. It took a year of basically asking very little of her and allowing her to come to us in her own time, they do come around but in very small stages, so be patient your efforts will pay off and it's so rewarding when they do start to trust you!
 
Time is just one part of it. When you genuinely help someone with there biggest problem you make a friend. Horses know how to cooperate with each other and it's up to us to learn how to get them to cooperate with us. If trust has been lost with your horse it is possible to get it back but Join-Up will only add to the subjugation.
 
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