How to ride horses...

tallyho!

tallyho!

Following a strict mediterranean diet...
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"What fine examples of riding we have here. Look how this fantastic competitor rides the horse. Isn't it beautiful? Doesn't the rider look fantastic on the shiny horse with his top hat and nice boots?........"

Sarcastic enough for you...?

'What? The horse cannot breathe you say? Rubbish.
Rollkur?? No, this is just merely hyperflexion, used in training, everybody does it you know, it's how you get this beautiful inflation of the neck. You only do it for a few seconds at a time anyway. It's called LDR duh!!! Only good riders do it. You can learn if you want by coming to my dressage clinic. No cameras allowed though or I'll be nasty to you.
The horse is in pain? Go away you stupid person, you know nothing about dressage or horses.'

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http://epona.tv/blog/2013/june/if-the-shoe-fits

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.574439575933761.1073741841.100001031717626&type=1

So, while the FEI continue to reward abuse in competition... this continues to pervade into the bed of new riders. When will it ever stop?

:(
 
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I don't think it will stop. There's money involved. Certain people will always put money and "who you are friends with" above horses. A person who does this is just using the horse as a means to an end - winning and money. You can't tell me anyone who will do that to a horse really cares about the animal. All we can do is keep training our own horses without rollkur :(
 
But these people are professionals, earn huge amounts of money, paid by companies to endorse their products... so obviously they must know far more than us.. :rolleyes:

Someone pointed out though, on another thread about this, that they may have shot themselves in the foot in the long term, as an absolute media ban may raise more questions than leaked photos that can be 'excused' away. Hope they're right.
 
It probably will be here to stay. It isn't the riders we should be blaming - after all, as you say, their job is to win money and sponsorship and to do that they need to keep on producing what the JUDGES keep REWARDING.

If the FEI no longer rewarded false outlines, terrible extensions of the paces by giving ludicrously high marks for what are completely wrong movements then perhaps it will stop.

I thought after Carl Hester's teams performance at the Olympics, things would head in a different direction but clearly the Europeans have no interest in correct paces in dressage. Only "flashy" will do. That's what gets the marks, that's what impresses and ultimately that is how one gets paid.

Sod the horses.

The evidence that these methods have become popular right down into those just starting out is clear on this forum.... how many times do we see questions about gadgets?? You can't get away from it... equiami, pessoa, draw reins, etc etc... every horse magazine shows you how to use one and markets it as the best way to "engage" the horse... does anyone actually know what engagement is?

I never see questions like "how do you perform the best shoulder-in?" or "how can I improve my lateral work?" and I think it's because people think this is all high-school stuff when really, this is how you need to start off. THAT is how you develop a "top-line"... not by going out and buying gadgetry.
 
tallyho! said:
I thought after Carl Hester's teams performance at the Olympics, things would head in a different direction but clearly the Europeans have no interest in correct paces in dressage. QUOTE]
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tallyho! said:
But these things take time. I will never forget Judy Harvey's comment as CD's scores came in; "Finally the judges are rewarding correct training!"

Yes, the evidence seems thin, especially with this latest FEI farce, but the Olympics were proof that the truth is slowly trickling through. There will always be people who court the big bucks at the cost of all else, but that's the point - in the end it will cost them too much, both in bad publicity and knackered horses. Look at Totilas, the epitome of modern training, and yet where is he now? Constant issues and no good for anything but breeding.

I'm the first to say 'it's all about the money', but I am also optimistic that with people like Epona TV rattling on the bars and doing such a fantastic job of educating people, eventually the tide will turn.
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Another point..

I think the fact that pictures like this spread like wildfire across discussion boards every time they become available, prompting disgust among most, shows that things are changing, because a few years ago there wouldn't have been a peep out of anyone about it.

Chin up Tallyho, and hope for the best! :)
 
Excuse me for being a bit ignorant but I'm on a phone and the photos are small, what is going on in some of them where the horses seem to be in mid air ?
 
It's the moment of suspension when the horse has all four feet off the ground , and think in the ones that are close together the horse is making a change of leg in canter.
 
Weebarney, I think some photos are of the horses in mid-air as they are cantering or perhaps a shot of an incorrect extended trot.

LBM... thanks hun, I will keep my chin up. I guess my despair is seeing so many young riders wanting to emulate that photo, young people looking up to riders such as those above and thinking that it is how they want to be and how they want their horses to look.
 
tallyho! said:
Weebarney, I think some photos are of the horses in mid-air as they are cantering or perhaps a shot of an incorrect extended trot.

LBM... thanks hun, I will keep my chin up. I guess my despair is seeing so many young riders wanting to emulate that photo, young people looking up to riders such as those above and thinking that it is how they want to be and how they want their horses to look.
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As someone who is 17 i can see what you mean here, i have known quite a few people younger to do horrible stuff to make their pretty little show pony go in an outline... one involved bailing twine for 7+ hours a day....

It's sickening to see, to me a person who can really ride a horse is one who makes a connection with it and can send it forwards and into a natural outline not forced. Surely there is more satisfaction from doing that than restraining a horse ?
 
I was just wondering what was bad about the mid air photos as some I couldn't really see the head carriages so is there something else I should be seeing?
 
I think when we get to the point when the paying public are not allow to take images of the 'stars ' at a show it clear the powers that be are going about solving the problem from the wrong end.
There must be a way of stopping the use of these techniques in warm up with out punishing the rider of 17 hands of muscle bound stallion who has to apply the handbrake when everything is going a bit wrong.
Only failure to win will change the techniques used at home .
And although the judges have a huge responsibility in this they are only responsible when the horse is in the arena ( I don't pretend to understand high level judging but I can not understand how Parsizal was marked higher than MH at the Olympics ) .
Hyderflexion is not new it was extensively used by classical masters in the past.
L L and D can be used for warm up with great benefits It is in my opinion not damaging and certainly no more damaging the horse being allowed to invert its back and carry it head to high .
This is an argument about extremes I think they must be able to prevent the use of extreme hyper flexion in warm up then if the horses could only be controlled by being warmed up like this i think this people would have to change their approach because it would all unravel in the arena .
 
Goldenstar said:
I think when we get to the point when the paying public are not allow to take images of the 'stars ' at a show it clear the powers that be are going about solving the problem from the wrong end.
There must be a way of stopping the use of these techniques in warm up with out punishing the rider of 17 hands of muscle bound stallion who has to apply the handbrake when everything is going a bit wrong.
Only failure to win will change the techniques used at home .
And although the judges have a huge responsibility in this they are only responsible when the horse is in the arena ( I don't pretend to understand high level judging but I can not understand how Parsizal was marked higher than MH at the Olympics ) .
Hyderflexion is not new it was extensively used by classical masters in the past.
L L and D can be used for warm up with great benefits It is in my opinion not damaging and certainly no more damaging the horse being allowed to invert its back and carry it head to high .
This is an argument about extremes I think they must be able to prevent the use of extreme hyper flexion in warm up then if the horses could only be controlled by being warmed up like this i think this people would have to change their approach because it would all unravel in the arena .
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Couldn't agree more!
And I don't think we in England should be sitting back smug either, I recently watched a demo by a well known british trainer & judge and actually felt a bit sick with what I was seeing. If it had been a slightly different scenario I would have got up and walked out.
 
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Goldenstar said:
I think when we get to the point when the paying public are not allow to take images of the 'stars ' at a show it clear the powers that be are going about solving the problem from the wrong end.
There must be a way of stopping the use of these techniques in warm up with out punishing the rider of 17 hands of muscle bound stallion who has to apply the handbrake when everything is going a bit wrong.
Only failure to win will change the techniques used at home .
And although the judges have a huge responsibility in this they are only responsible when the horse is in the arena ( I don't pretend to understand high level judging but I can not understand how Parsizal was marked higher than MH at the Olympics ) .
Hyderflexion is not new it was extensively used by classical masters in the past.
L L and D can be used for warm up with great benefits It is in my opinion not damaging and certainly no more damaging the horse being allowed to invert its back and carry it head to high .
This is an argument about extremes I think they must be able to prevent the use of extreme hyper flexion in warm up then if the horses could only be controlled by being warmed up like this i think this people would have to change their approach because it would all unravel in the arena .
Click to expand...

GS, please can you show me the examples of hyperflexion by the classical masters?
 
Goldenstar said:
Non of those incorrect pictures are showing suspension which is what WB was asking about .
There should always be clear suspension in a good trot .
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Without knowing which of those pictures weebarney was specifically eluding to, I was only making a guess and anyway... of course some photos will be mid-air shots.
 
Sorry for the confusion I was just wondering what relevance the suspension pics had in relation to the cruel riding ? Was it harsh use of the spurs or bit? At least I know what is an incorrect extended trot now.not being sarky either :)
 
weebarney said:
Sorry for the confusion I was just wondering what relevance the suspension pics had in relation to the cruel riding ? Was it harsh use of the spurs or bit? At least I know what is an incorrect extended trot now.not being sarky either :)
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They were obviously just moments in time wb... i think you have to take the series of shots (different riders) as a whole. We could dissect each single shot if you like... I have lots of time today :)
 
No just wondered if I was not seeing something as I'm not known for my love of dressage, my riding style is go, stop, and turn. As long as I can do that I'm happy.
 
weebarney said:
Sorry for the confusion I was just wondering what relevance the suspension pics had in relation to the cruel riding ? Was it harsh use of the spurs or bit? At least I know what is an incorrect extended trot now.not being sarky either :)
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Suspension is natural in trot and canter but occur in walk .
The amount of suspension ( ie the hieght from the ground the horse lifts ) varies from horseto horse based on their athlectism and desire to push forwards it can be increased and enhanced with training and also damaged and decreasedby poor training , some horses can learn to sort of ' hang ' for a fraction in the air which gives a feeling of the rhytmn breaking ( not explaining that well ) which is also a fault ,in a good dressage horse the feeling of push ( impulsion) and suspension feels balanced the more they push the clearer the suspension feels it's a lovely feeling on a good horse.
 
I'm currently using the Philippe Karl CD in an effort to learn more. I've had some lessons with one of his trainers and I love the approach based on respect for the horse and achieving the lightest possible touch. I'd like to believe that this method, and others like it, becomes more widespread and that we will see an end to the whole forced outline and position.
I was quite shocked when I watched a dressage lesson last year...more force more contact more more more!! By the end the poor horse just stood with his head down shaking his neck. This was at a lower level and the instructor was north European and a dressage judge and coach in Ireland. Guess that is how these methods keep being perpetuated.
 
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