How to sell a cold-backed horse?

[Beth33]

Hi! I'm new to these forums so hope this is ok.

I have made the unfortunate decision to sell my boy, who is cold-backed. He just isn't right for me, I have just lost my confidence too many times (unrelated accident with another horse).

He isn't extreme with it. He can bronc, but if you hold his head he doesn't do this/try to. He is tense to mount (but will just stand there) and can have some wobbly steps initially but then is absolutely fine.

He is bombproof to hack, safe as anything and an absolute saint on the ground. Would suit a novice riding if not for mounting! But people seem to see 'cold-backed' and run for the hills. He's been this way since he was backed and has had vets to find cause which resulted in nothing.

I am at a loss for how to find him his forever home, any help would be greatly appreciated please.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

What have the vets done to find the cause? I think you will need to list the investigations and allow access to vet records. Most people will automatically think 'kissing spines' and expect him to either have a very short working life or need expensive vet work or both

 

[Beth33]

Yeah, I get that.

He has had a full lameness work up and x-rays of back/pelvis.
I have offered this information in his Ad however no dice.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

In that case perhaps you would be best offering him Lwvtb, or just loaning him.

 

[millitiger]

I would assume if already advertised, with vet checks anove disclosed, he is simply too expensive.

He sounds like quite an extreme version of cold backed with the wobbling and broncing so needs to be cheap.

 

[ycbm]

Has anyone tested his kidney function? That's what was wrong with my cold backed horse who behaved the same. I've also heard of one where the problem was a ligament in the spine, which won't show on x rays. Another had hock arthritis.

I'm sorry but I wouldn't touch him with a bargepole. I believe it always means there's an issue, just that it hasn't been found yet.

 

[Snowfilly]

To be honest he sounds like a horse in pain somehow and I wouldn’t expect any real demand for him. His back is likely to be unisurable, broncing will put most people off anyway and I would assume there is something physically wrong that will cost money.

He would have to be extremely cheap for most people to bother with, probably under 2k and then you run the risk of him ending up buted up and passed on. A loan with view to buy might be the best option.

 

[Beth33]

Thanks all for help.

He has been put on pain relief to try to see if this was the cause however it made no difference. My vet believes it is mental from some kind of trauma as it is only when initially getting on, and not all the time.

He has only bronced twice since I have owned him, once when i first bought him and just jumped straight on unaware/after a few days to settle and second he'd had over a week off. I just put it in the ad as i want to be upfront and honest.

 

[SEL]

I'm with others on this. My PSSM mare is cold backed - I don't think I'd like someone sitting on sore muscles either. Getting on was never relaxing because she HAD to walk off immediately often with her head snaking around.

I'm afraid I wouldn't buy a known problem. Could you find a loaner?

 

[VRIN]

I am guessing you have probably tried everything but in case you haven't .. have you thought about using something like a heat pad or equipage before mounting?

 

[Lois Lame]

Hmm... I'd probably have a look at such a horse, but maybe that's because I've never ridden a cold-backed horse. (Or really known of one.) I'm drawn to your description of: bombproof to hack, safe as anything and an absolute saint on the ground. Sounds nice. If he was the right size and build and personality for me, I'd be curious.

I'm a person who takes an age to tack-up and get on with it. If I could manage your horse, I'd consider something. So, maybe there are others out there like me... it's great that you are offering full vet's disclosure etc.

If your horse is fine once he has been tacked up, girthed up gradually, walked around a bit etc etc before mounting (on a mounting block) and riding off, I could be tempted to enquire further (if I were in the area) (which I'm not) (I think).

ETA: LWVTB is a great idea, as others have said.

 

[Birker2020]

He would have to be extremely cheap for most people to bother with, probably under 2k and then you run the risk of him ending up buted up and passed on. A loan with view to buy might be the best option.

This in bucket loads. If my horses owners had done the responsible thing i wouldn't be stuck in the heartbreaking situation my beautiful lad and I are in now.

Please don't let him end up being passed from.pillar to post. Its not fair on him. Do the responsible thing and either have more investigative work, put him on loan but explain the situation in detail to any potential loanee, retire him or secure his future and pts.

 

[Red-1]

I am too old now, but in my youth I may have been interested, at the right price.

I don't know what causes it, but have known 2 horses who performed beautifully, were fabulous once mounted and also had long careers. One was novice safe once mounted for grassroots. The other competed to the highest level. In fact I know a third, grassroots, one. It brought on an inexperienced rider to BE, was fantastic to do that job. Once mounted, was bulletproof and lasted as well as any horse.

I think LVTB would be a good idea, so someone can see if it suits them. But it would have to be low cost for me as there will always be that part of them that makes you wonder if today is the last day they will be fit to ride.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

We bought a cold backed tb fir pointing for a fifth of the asking price. 100% bombproof, hunted, team chased, pointed ( obviously) showjumping etc. Never sick or sorry. He was 17.3 with withers like a razor blade. He had several grooms off when they tried to mount in his previous home. We sort of came to an arrangement with him. I got hold of both reins , short, so he computer his head down but he was allowed to move forwards. So once I had reins I hopped on off the mounting block, didn't bother with stirrups and just let him shoot forwards. I think he preferred it than trying to be made to stand and I got pretty good at mounting at speed! Couldn't do t nowadays. He was a great horse in every other way.

 

[ycbm]

I realise you didn't ask for solutions so ignore this if it's not helpful.

What does he do as he's girthed up?

 

[SantaVera]

We bought a cold backed tb fir pointing for a fifth of the asking price. 100% bombproof, hunted, team chased, pointed ( obviously) showjumping etc. Never sick or sorry. He was 17.3 with withers like a razor blade. He had several grooms off when they tried to mount in his previous home. We sort of came to an arrangement with him. I got hold of both reins , short, so he computer his head down but he was allowed to move forwards. So once I had reins I hopped on off the mounting block, didn't bother with stirrups and just let him shoot forwards. I think he preferred it than trying to be made to stand and I got pretty good at mounting at speed! Couldn't do t nowadays. He was a great horse in every other way.

I had a similar horse and ,not a TB but with the same reaction. I used to mount the same way. interestingly thehorse had had a year off due to sacro illiac injury before i bought her. I think she was reacting to remembered pain, she had been an arab race horse.

 

[SantaVera]

OP I think you justneed to be 100%honest about the horse both when you advertise and when viewers come to see.The right home is out there somewhere.

 

[Annagain]

I recently sold one - not with a cold back but a relatively recent kissing spine diagnosis. It was a very mild case (both on x-ray and in the behaviour he was showing - refusing to lift his back legs and the odd single buck in canter) and that wasn't why I was selling him but obviously it was a big factor. I put him on sales livery as I had lost my confidence with him (he was terrified of the pigs at the end of our lane so we couldn't hack alone and no matter how hard I tried he wasn't getting any better) and wouldn't have been able to present him for sale to prospective buyers.

He was there for 5 weeks being brought back into work (I took a break from riding him as I suspected an issue and he had to wait for the vet I wanted to be back from holiday. He then had a full workup and x-rays which diagnosed the KS, he had it treated and had two weeks off. When it came to getting back on him I just didn't want to so that was decision made) and being tested as much as you can in 5 weeks and was then advertised with full disclosure and access to all his vet records and x-rays.

It wasn't cheap, it took a while to find the right home (about 12 weeks in total) and I ended up selling him for half what I'd paid for him two years previously. By the time I paid livery and commission, I could have sold him from the field for half that again and still been better off but I felt I owed him the chance to find the right home and for me, sales livery was the best way to do it.

There was the added benefit that they could work him far more than I could (which he needed for the KS) and had things like a solarium and massage pad to help make sure his back was as good as it could be. That sort of thing might help your boy too?

 

[Xmasha]

i bred a horse that turned out to be 'cold backed'. he was amazing, jumped newcomers /1.20m . I used to read all the threads about cold backed and shrugged the comments off as i knew my boy wasnt in pain. How wrong i was, we just hadnt found it. He was PTS at a young age as he had neck arthritis. Have you / vets considered that it could be neck issue ? Theres always an answer to these things, we just need to find it.

 

[Cob Life]

Has anyone tested his kidney function? That's what was wrong with my cold backed horse who behaved the same. I've also heard of one where the problem was a ligament in the spine, which won't show on x rays. Another had hock arthritis.

I'm sorry but I wouldn't touch him with a bargepole. I believe it always means there's an issue, just that it hasn't been found yet.

I ecco this, I’ve known 3 cold backed horses, one had severe kissing spine (i know you’ve had x rays done), one had arthritis in his spine and was pts at 12 and the other had ulcers.

I wouldn’t call being cold backed a normal behaviour and something that needs investigation.

personally I wouldn’t buy it was I’ve experienced the heartbreak that can come along with it but if he’s a nice enough sort and cheap enough you may find someone who would explore it.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

It is either pain, or a schooling issue. Both significantly devalue the horse.

I would explore and rule out pain, or treat once a diagnosis is found. I’d then reschool. It takes time but good basics like waiting to be mounted, lining up nicely at the mounting block etc are all skills that can be taught as long as there isn’t a physical reason behind the reluctance.

ETA I wouldn’t expect to be able to sell a horse that I had to declare as “cold backed” without a significant reduction in value.

 

[Goldenstar]

A cold back horse has to be cheap .
Because lots of things cause this reaction and non of them are good .
My experience is that a good proportion of these horses get worse as they age .
I would say you would find it easier to sell an out and out competition machine with a cold back than a all rounder and hacking type .
So if the horse is the latter I would expect you to struggle particularly as he dented your confidence, a rider whose a competent test pilot can get a nice young horse with no issues to work on .

 

[ycbm]

He has been put on pain relief to try to see if this was the cause however it made no difference. My vet believes it is mental from some kind of trauma as it is only when initially getting on, and not all the time.

My vet told me that pain in the back is often not resolved with painkillers. Very like humans, I guess. A bute trial of 4 bute a day didn't resolve the bucking issues of my horse with kissing spines. I'm not sure it would have done much for failed kidneys either.

I'm afraid I've heard of too many times when a vet has said they can't find anything physical so the answer must be behavioural, only for the physical cause to become obvious later, to trust an "it's behavioural" diagnosis.

Have you tried training the behaviour out with a valued food?
.

 

[Xmasha]

the other thing that strikes me about this situation is the way you describe him as bomb proof and a novice ride ( if it wasnt for the mounting issues ) IMHO these types are the ones that would rather not exert themselves / use up energy etc etc. So to me that says pain related even more so. Why bronc around when you dont need to.

 

[Polos Mum]

Lots of good advice above. Just to help put it into context, when I read "cold backed" I read pain issue that hasn't been identified yet.

I could be very wrong and it sound like there are a few examples of that not being true, but many more examples of someone finding out later that there was a physical problem. Nice chilled novice ride horses don't just bronc or run off for no reason (IMHO).

I think a loan is your best bet, then someone can take the time to really get to know him and work with him (in case it is learned from a previous pain issue). They don't have the risk of finding out it's something catastrophic in 12 months time.

I have an aversion to selling horses with issues that can be hidden. If you sell him for £1-2k then a dodgy dealer (and sadly there are plenty of those) will find a way to stop him doing anything while he's viewed (drugs, sedation, dehydration etc. etc) and then sell him without disclosing the problem for 2x or 3x the price you get.

Not only do I think this is cruel for the horse but I wouldn't forgive myself if someone got hurt.

If you have to sell maybe think about some sort of freezemark to permanently record that he has an issue the loss of use one might work. Writing in his passport is pointless as a dodgy dealer will just throw it away and get a new one.

 

[hock]

I can’t tell you what you should do just what I’d do in your position and that’s find out what the cause of the pain is. It could well be that for a couple of grand you could fix the issue and he will come right which is much cheaper than buying a new horse. It’s really tough on you and I’m so sorry but could you really live with selling him on knowing his chances of a great quality of life are slim? Also not all vets are created equal so second opinion would be my next step after getting advice on a really really good vet. What area are you?

 

[Beth33]

I realise you didn't ask for solutions so ignore this if it's not helpful.

What does he do as he's girthed up?

No problems being tacked up what so ever.

 

[Beth33]

the other thing that strikes me about this situation is the way you describe him as bomb proof and a novice ride ( if it wasnt for the mounting issues ) IMHO these types are the ones that would rather not exert themselves / use up energy etc etc. So to me that says pain related even more so. Why bronc around when you dont need to.

Hm, maybe. He is a forward ride, loves a good gallop so wouldn't say he's against exerting himself per-say!

 

[Beth33]

I can’t tell you what you should do just what I’d do in your position and that’s find out what the cause of the pain is. It could well be that for a couple of grand you could fix the issue and he will come right which is much cheaper than buying a new horse. It’s really tough on you and I’m so sorry but could you really live with selling him on knowing his chances of a great quality of life are slim? Also not all vets are created equal so second opinion would be my next step after getting advice on a really really good vet. What area are you?

I know, I loath the idea of selling as against everything I believe in. However, I have already spent a lot of money here and to be frank- I don't have any more. I've tried lots and lots of avenues and am very much unsure of what I could even do next. He has improved massively since purchasing him, gets better everyday. Was sold to me as 'nervous to mount.' I tracked his first Owner who backed him and said he had always been this way.

I'm based in Yelverton, Devon.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Thanks all for help.

He has been put on pain relief to try to see if this was the cause however it made no difference. My vet believes it is mental from some kind of trauma as it is only when initially getting on, and not all the time.

He has only bronced twice since I have owned him, once when i first bought him and just jumped straight on unaware/after a few days to settle and second he'd had over a week off. I just put it in the ad as i want to be upfront and honest.

Never had an issue with cold backed but assumed my horse was when I got him, he just hadnt had an education. I spoke to my physio , and we tried this… get a pillow case and put two hot water bottles in , one either side of his withers or back
To relax and loosen him.
does he have good top line?
If he is lacking muscle try standing behind and short sharp pulls on the tail to get the blood flowing, all tricks I got from my physio. ?

id also say it’s probably partly learned behaviour, try and make mounting a good experience, use a bucket if you have to, use an apple , mints , handful of nuts , just work with him, getting on and off and he will eventually realise and hopefully calm down ?