How to spot ulcers in a horse?

Hi , there are alot of symptoms but things like , unhappy having girth X surcingles done up , eager for food but then after a little while going off eating , loosing weight ,weaving , cribbing ,windsucking and generally unhappy looking when its feed time or grumpy as uncomfortable. When you are hungry your digestive juices(hydrochloric acid) get going in your stomach , if you have any damage to your stomach the acid obviously hurts the damaged parts , so if you think what sort of symptoms you would have your horse could have the same ( we rock back and forth when in pain , its comforting etc etc ) . Your vet could confirm ulcers . Ive found keeping my horses on Pink powder and plain feeds helps as well as plenty of turn out and grass and hay rather than haylage , only as some haylage can be abit tart . It works for my horses but all are different ! Generally easy to sort and once you have figured out what works for your horse you have a happy horse , well worth the effort . Speak to NAF and/or vet and Im sure they will help you further . Good Luck.
 
Two of the horses I have cared for with ulcers have dragged their bedding to the back corner of their stable in a distinctive sort forward and reverse action .
It's how I picked it up in the second one who had no other symptoms.
 
My horse is showing signs like the second horse in the video and is getting to the stage of the third horse. The vet (is he a vet?) in the video gives you some recommendations of what to do, ie changing feeds, should I try this first or just get the vet out?
 
I got my (very enlightened) vet to confirm there was nothing else that would fit the symptoms, and agree with my "kitchen sink" remedies, as I rescued this horse and am on a very tight budget. I think most vets will suggest scoping, and when that shows nothing (as it probably will if any ulceration is in the intestines) they will dismiss gastric ulcers as the cause. You could try activated charcoal, low sugar high fibre diet, lowering any stressors in his environment, EGUSIN (from Forageplus), coconut oil, maybe even Omeprazole if you can get it. My basic strategy was to line the gut wall with an oil/mucus, reduce the acid environment, ensure there was never an empty stomach and allow mine (ex racer) to de-stress out in the field.
There is a lot to read up, but I found that video very good, and yes, I think Dr De Paulo is a vet.
 
Thanks everyone, really interesting replies. The horse in question often nibbles on both sides of her belly as if there is some kind of discomfort- I've checked for mites and the skin is perfectly pink and healthy. When it comes to tacking up, she's very reluctant to have tack put on- turns her back to me and retreats to back of stable. When ridden, she's quite lazy and sluggish. Do you think these could be possible symptoms?

ETA: The horses in that video are gorgeous! Very informative too :)
 
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JillA said:
I got my (very enlightened) vet to confirm there was nothing else that would fit the symptoms, and agree with my "kitchen sink" remedies, as I rescued this horse and am on a very tight budget. I think most vets will suggest scoping, and when that shows nothing (as it probably will if any ulceration is in the intestines) they will dismiss gastric ulcers as the cause. You could try activated charcoal, low sugar high fibre diet, lowering any stressors in his environment, EGUSIN (from Forageplus), coconut oil, maybe even Omeprazole if you can get it. My basic strategy was to line the gut wall with an oil/mucus, reduce the acid environment, ensure there was never an empty stomach and allow mine (ex racer) to de-stress out in the field.
There is a lot to read up, but I found that video very good, and yes, I think Dr De Paulo is a vet.
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Thank you so much. I'm just off the phone to the vet, I'm looking at around £125 just for the call out fee and examination, if he needs to go up for scoping and needs treatments we could be looking at £1000's. The horses previous owner has had him on bute every day for years to mask any problems he has had as she needed him to work... I have had him off bute for around a month now so it is very likely his problems are just coming to the surface. I'm aware it could be a range of things, but he is objecting to being touched in the EXACT same places as in the video.

What are the long term problems of ulcers? Could I get away with doing what you suggested above before going down the route of scoping? I don't want to sound like an irresponsible horse owner but like yourself I'm on a very tight budget!
 
Hmmm, long term use of bute is a risk factor in ulcers.
I would personally use the video to palpate the relevant areas and see what response you get. You can then use this as a measure of whether or not there is improvement, and try the alternative remedies for a couple of months. It all depends on how much you need him to work - a couple of months of field rest while you are treating him would be the best plan IMO but it isn't my horse. There is lots to read up on on various forums (?fora?) but contact Forageplus about Egusin as well. If he is insured you do maybe need to get your vet on side, just to cover all the bases. Mine wasn't, as a rescue, so I didn't have to worry about that angle.
 
heebiejeebies said:
Thank you so much. I'm just off the phone to the vet, I'm looking at around £125 just for the call out fee and examination, if he needs to go up for scoping and needs treatments we could be looking at £1000's. The horses previous owner has had him on bute every day for years to mask any problems he has had as she needed him to work... I have had him off bute for around a month now so it is very likely his problems are just coming to the surface. I'm aware it could be a range of things, but he is objecting to being touched in the EXACT same places as in the video.

What are the long term problems of ulcers? Could I get away with doing what you suggested above before going down the route of scoping? I don't want to sound like an irresponsible horse owner but like yourself I'm on a very tight budget!
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If you are insured, get the vet out and scope. I wouldn't hesitate otherwise you are just trying to second guess and treat what is wrong. You can see ulcers in both parts of the stomach, it is very enlightening.
The long term bute and being touchy to tack up is ringing alarm bells with me.
 
JillA said:
Hmmm, long term use of bute is a risk factor in ulcers.
I would personally use the video to palpate the relevant areas and see what response you get. You can then use this as a measure of whether or not there is improvement, and try the alternative remedies for a couple of months. It all depends on how much you need him to work - a couple of months of field rest while you are treating him would be the best plan IMO but it isn't my horse. There is lots to read up on on various forums (?fora?) but contact Forageplus about Egusin as well. If he is insured you do maybe need to get your vet on side, just to cover all the bases. Mine wasn't, as a rescue, so I didn't have to worry about that angle.
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dixie said:
If you are insured, get the vet out and scope. I wouldn't hesitate otherwise you are just trying to second guess and treat what is wrong. You can see ulcers in both parts of the stomach, it is very enlightening.
The long term bute and being touchy to tack up is ringing alarm bells with me.
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He isn't insured.... haven't got round to doing it yet (stupid I know), but I doubt I'd be covered for this anyway as they would know it's been a long term 'hidden' problem?

He is currently having a few months off work anyway, so since I've taken him off the bute and letting him have time to just be a horse I think this is why the problems are becoming noticeable.

He is really objecting to being touched in his girth, tummy, behind withers, loins to dock and flank areas. At first I thought he was being a grump because I was using quite a stiff brush to get caked mud off him, but when I pressed his side to ask his to move over he nearly went for me... teeth and back legs, which isn't like him at all.

He lets my two year old child fuss around him but yesterday I wouldn't let them near each other, he REALLY wasn't happy at all.
 
heebiejeebies said:
Thank you so much. I'm just off the phone to the vet, I'm looking at around £125 just for the call out fee and examination, if he needs to go up for scoping and needs treatments we could be looking at £1000's. The horses previous owner has had him on bute every day for years to mask any problems he has had as she needed him to work... I have had him off bute for around a month now so it is very likely his problems are just coming to the surface. I'm aware it could be a range of things, but he is objecting to being touched in the EXACT same places as in the video.

What are the long term problems of ulcers? Could I get away with doing what you suggested above before going down the route of scoping? I don't want to sound like an irresponsible horse owner but like yourself I'm on a very tight budget!
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Bute in itself can make ulcers worse, or even cause them. The horse at my yard with them had no symptoms unless ridden. Then she would nap, go backwards and threaten to rear. She would also turn and look at her sides. I will PM you.
 
This is exactly how sensitive my old Tb boy became in just the same places as well as generally much crabbier, stiffer and unhappy looking.

It was concluded we had triggered hind gut problems with heavy antibiotic use and then worsened it with months of Danilon but he was not scoped (he was not insured, did a lot of blood tests etc and as he was losing weight vet said felt it was a hind gut problem etc). He may have had underlying problems before the antibiotics as he was always girthy.

He came off the bute and we tried the gut remedies +base mix from Thunderbrook. He improved dramatically in the space of a couple of months.
We now have him on a maintenance diet and I have put our new ex-racer on the same.
Agree with the plenty of forage etc as above and removing stress.
 
My first horse with ulcers was just off colour - no sensitivity at girth etc but looked fed up. He was scoped as a trial when Gatstro guard was first introduced. He had horrendous ulcers that were due to the long term use of Bute for his arthritis. The GG cleared the ulcers after about 6 weeks, second scoping needed to check as his symptoms were hard to spot. He was then moved from Bute to another pain killer and did well.

Second horse has just been diagnosed with low grade ulcers ( stageII). I do not agree that there is no point scoping as JillA suggests they are not often in the stomach, at least not in my horses cases or in any discussed with my vet. This horse has shown no signs of trouble with girthing or brushing at all. He went away to be schooled and was kept in; he is used at home to being out 24/7 and I have my doubts about how long he was left without hay etc. He returned home 'jumpy' and after 10 days of the snow and no grass, showed signs that looked like mild colic- no rolling but lying down and flank watching, getting up and doing a tap with his back legs onto his belly. Since he was still eating and pooing happily when the vet came, I asked for him to be scoped and I am glad I did. I can only presume that his nervous nature and 6 weeks of being stabled followed by lack of grass pushed him into these ulcers. His diet at home has never been grains only fibre so I cannot think of any other causes. He is now on GG and Remount 1. I had already changed his diet to provide smaller feeds and lots of sources of hay/haylage/ readygrass.

Insuring your horse now could be difficult. I have had no problems with my insurers about ulcers being 'hidden' and therefore not insurable. But if you insure now and then call out the vet straight away you will send alarm bells to the insurance company! If you decide to treat it for yourself then you have to rememebr that GG is expensive and has to be taken for quite a while - for my horse we are looking at 4 weeks before another gatroscopy. Just giving things that are acid buffers (like a human taking milk of magnesia for example,) don't work for the horse since then produce copious amounts of stomach acid all the time and not just in provocation to food. You need to provide large amounts of fible to ensure copious amounts of saliva are produced that will help to counteract the acid. You should talk to your vet about what way to go since you can easily help your horse, but are you healing its problems? And how did the ulcers come and what can you do to stop this happening again?
I have a list of does and dont's from my vet if it helps. pm me.
 
Mine hasnt been scoped, but is on a trial of GastroGuard at the moment (and its proving to be working) - it was on my Vets guidance that i didnt scope.

He became sluggish and behind the leg when ridden (and eventually chucked me off with the biggest couple of broncs ever), he became really difficult to ride and was very tense. He was girthy and hated being groomed. He never went off his food, but when the Vet was having a prod last week, it gave him what i can only describe as hiccups!

I dont know if its already been posted, but there's a video somewhere that shows the pressure points you can use as an indication
 
Hedwards said:
Mine hasnt been scoped, but is on a trial of GastroGuard at the moment (and its proving to be working) - it was on my Vets guidance that i didnt scope.

He became sluggish and behind the leg when ridden (and eventually chucked me off with the biggest couple of broncs ever), he became really difficult to ride and was very tense. He was girthy and hated being groomed. He never went off his food, but when the Vet was having a prod last week, it gave him what i can only describe as hiccups!

I dont know if its already been posted, but there's a video somewhere that shows the pressure points you can use as an indication
Click to expand...

Hiccups?! Never heard of that, how bizarre! :D
 
Hedwards said:
Mine hasnt been scoped, but is on a trial of GastroGuard at the moment (and its proving to be working) - it was on my Vets guidance that i didnt scope.
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Have you asked the insurance to cover the GG?

I used GG as a trial (on vets advice) to help with my grass sickness mare in the summer, the insurance said that as she wasnt scoped they would not pay for the GG - but she couldnt be scoped as she could not endure any more stress to her weak body. Shocking really!!

I am still paying the bill off!
 
philamena said:
Hiccups?! Never heard of that, how bizarre! :D
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Yes very bizarre... the vet was poking and prodding around his girth area (which was evidently very uncomfortable for the horse, based on his reactions... and then he got hiccups...)

patchandloopy said:
Have you asked the insurance to cover the GG?

I used GG as a trial (on vets advice) to help with my grass sickness mare in the summer, the insurance said that as she wasnt scoped they would not pay for the GG - but she couldnt be scoped as she could not endure any more stress to her weak body. Shocking really!!

I am still paying the bill off!
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Yes, and yes... although not paid out yet as they only got the form last week...
 
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