How to stop a door banger that's doing my head in !!!

I had a couple of horses who used to do this. I bought a QUITKICK and it cured them both virtually immediately. I really cannot recommend it enough. It takes two seconds to fit and you no longer have a door kicking problem. I just can't understand all these people taking doors off and going to such extremes, and expensive extremes at that. Have a look at www.quitkick.com
 
Teddyt what would you suggest to people who cannot live their horses out, who already do everything in their power to alleviate their horses frustration/boredom but have no choice other than stabling their horse for one reason or another. Yes I know that horses are used to living out and roaming over great areas trickle feeding, but that was before they were domesticated, I believe you say your horses/ponies are unable to be ridden but that suggests to me that you would happily ride them if that were possible - is that natural for a horse? What has become natural for a horse has changed over the years, that has to include stabling too.
 
Agree totally with teddyt. It seems quite sad that the majority of replies to the original post are suggestions about how to punish the horse for the behaviour it has learned - or rather been inadvertantly taught by the humans around it.
If there is no opportunity to change the management routine, and there is no question that the behaviour is anything other than attention seeking, then suggestions for combating it would be
a) passive: use a chain across the doorway, instead of the door, so there is nothing to kick
b) positive reinforcement: ignore the horse until it STOPS kicking, then IMMEDIATELY reward it with attention. This way it learns that attention comes as a result of not door banging. This would take quite a lot of patience and discipline - you would never be able to go near the horse while it was banging, so could end up waiting for an opportunity to reward for a long time, but would mean that nothing about the environment would have to change and you wouldn't run the risk of inadvertantly punishing the wrong thing and ending up with a neurotic horse.
 
Sanolly said:
Teddyt what would you suggest to people who cannot live their horses out, who already do everything in their power to alleviate their horses frustration/boredom but have no choice other than stabling their horse for one reason or another.
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If everything that could be done was done then there is nothing more to say. But thats part of what i am trying to say- think from the horses point of view and not just the owner and then you can only truly say that hand on heart everything has been done for the benefit of the horse.

Yes I know that horses are used to living out and roaming over great areas trickle feeding, but that was before they were domesticated, I believe you say your horses/ponies are unable to be ridden but that suggests to me that you would happily ride them if that were possible - is that natural for a horse? What has become natural for a horse has changed over the years, that has to include stabling too.
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I disagree that stabling has become natural for a horse. Its become natural for owners but not the horse- the horse is still mentally and physically designed for eating 18+ hours a day, moving most of the time. The however many hundreds of years of domestication hasnt changed the horses anatomy and physiology enough to cope with confinement. Horses havnt evolved that much- they might in another 1000 years time but who knows?

Yes, riding isnt natural either, i agree. However whatever we choose to do with our horses if their lives can mimic nature as much as possible then you wouldnt see half the problems that occur- laminitis, colic, sore backs, crib biting....

People can only ever do their best. However very few people actually do their best and fewer still look at how they care for their horses from the horses point of view. They think they are doing everything they can but only from their perspective- im just trying to get people to consider the wider picture. How else do we learn if we dont consider others points of view?
 
teddyt said:
If everything that could be done was done then there is nothing more to say. But thats part of what i am trying to say- think from the horses point of view and not just the owner and then you can only truly say that hand on heart everything has been done for the benefit of the horse.
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Which brings me back to my previous comment where I asked how you knew the OP had not done this.
 
teddyt said:
Well my advice is to look at why the horse is doing it- think about horse behaviour! i dont see why that is so bad and why the opposing advice assuming its doing it to annoy is any better, with the answer being to throw/wave things at the horse or some other method of 'punishment'!

People seem to be missing the obvious. The horses that do it more when their owners are there and stop when they leave are doing it because the owner is the one who feeds the horse and turns it out. The owner is the one who gives the horse attention, hence when the horse sees the owner or hears their car they know they will get some attention- whether thats food, turn out or being ridden, whatever it i the horse needs. Natural horse behaviour when wanting that attention is therefore to kick the door because the horse is frustrated. It doesnt matter whether the horse may have only been in for 5 minutes- if its frustrated, its frustrated. some horses will tolerate hours in but others wont, hence they will kick quicker. Others will box walk, weave or crib. Some wont
do anything because they have a higher tolerance of confinement or hunger.

This doesnt have to be a criticism- im just pointing out horse behaviour and the way the horse thinks. Everyone else was approaching this issue from a human point of view. Despite domestication stables are alien to a horses mental and physical imprint. I suggest that others 'wind their neck in' actually! They are the ones taking offence that their management is causing the problem- because they dont think it does. But the point is the
horse does! Regardless of whether an owners opinion is that the horse cant possibly be frustrated if the horse is demonstrating alternative behaviours then it is.

Im just putting the case for the way the horse thinks because when i joined this thread nobody had considered the horse. Advice doesnt always have to be what someone wants to hear and i dont think ive been rude- just pointing a few things out that are alternative to others. So then i get told that i have to wind my neck in and other sarcastic comments just because i give an alternative view point! Its a shame people cant debate a subject without
resorting to this.
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I actually agree with this and see where you are coming from.
 
I never directly criticised the OP. i criticised the general opinions that door bangers are shits and need squirting, whip waving, electrocuting or whatever.
I didnt know the OPs stable routine but as i said earlier- it doesnt matter if the horse is in for 5 minutes or 5 hours, if its banging the door its doing it for a reason. A couple of bangs at feed time is a bit different to 'constant- its doing my head in'. Therefore i look from the horses point of view and the horse is trying to say something! Its not speaking english but its shouting pretty loudly that it wants something. If all its needs were met (from the horses point of view) it wouldnt bang the door would it? Why would a horse bang the door for no reason.

Deduction and assumption, yes, but ive worked with some of the best behaviourists in the country and have been around horses long enough to do this with some experience- not just sticking a pin in and hoping for the best. Even if the owner, me, or anyone else thinks that they have done everything they can for any particular horse it doesnt mean that the horse will agree!

eta- by behaviourists i dont mean people like the parellis!
 
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OP- hope you havnt taken offence as you are in the centre of this thread. There wasnt any intention to have a go at you- just trying to have a more balanced discussion and encourage people to think about the bigger picture.
 
Either put rubber on the inside of the door, so that it dulls the kick,

or we used to put electric fencing on the inside of the door fixed so that if the horse kicked it they would get a shock. Worked very well! Horse soon learnt not to - and for those questioning the humane aspect, you use electric fencing in a field..!
 
teddyt said:
I never directly criticised the OP. i criticised the general opinions that door bangers are shits and need squirting, whip waving, electrocuting or whatever.
I didnt know the OPs stable routine but as i said earlier- it doesnt matter if the horse is in for 5 minutes or 5 hours, if its banging the door its doing it for a reason. A couple of bangs at feed time is a bit different to 'constant- its doing my head in'. Therefore i look from the horses point of view and the
horse is trying to say something! Its not speaking english but its shouting pretty loudly that it wants something. If all its needs were met (from the horses point of view) it wouldnt bang the door would it? Why would a horse bang the door for no reason.

Deduction and assumption, yes, but ive worked with some of the best behaviourists in the country and have been around horses long enough to do this with some experience- not just sticking a pin in and hoping for the best. Even if the owner, me, or anyone else thinks that they
have done everything
they can for any particular horse it doesnt mean that the horse will agree

eta- by behaviourists i dont mean people like the parellis![/QUOTE

so in the case off my lad the fact that he comes in for those few hours to be worked with/ridden etc is the only reason I can find for the door banging ( just
doesn't want to come in). He does love people mind and if I'm in his field he will just follow me like a lamb where ever I go. Being stabled I'm taking this away????
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teddyt said:
OP- hope you havnt taken offence as you are in the centre of this thread. There wasnt any intention to have a go at you- just trying to have a more balanced discussion and encourage people to think about the bigger picture.
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No not at all, your input is interesting and most welcome as is everybodys. If I'm honest I don't want to chuck water at him or put brushes inside door but the electric collar my partner suggested did make me laugh. So I am interested in your point off view and am taking it on board.
 
so in the case off my lad the fact that he comes in for those few hours to be worked with/ridden etc is the only reason I can find for the door banging ( just
doesn't want to come in). He does love people mind and if I'm in his field he will just follow me like a lamb where ever I go. Being stabled I'm taking this away????
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It could be one or several things- for example, he doesnt like being stabled, he enjoys the social interaction with you and bangs because he wants it, he knows hes going out for a ride and is frustrated because you are having a chat and he wants to move.

Horses like freedom (movement), food and company. So if a horse isnt getting what it is genetically programmed to need they will perform behaviours to address it or to cope with the stress/frustration that is caused if they dont get it. Some horses couldnt give a monkeys about social interaction, others cant stand being confined and stress is very individual. e.g. put 3 horses in a stable. one bangs the door, another goes to sleep and the third tries to climb out. How a horses basic needs and individual requirements are met will affect how it reacts to different situations. Your horse might just dislike standing still, so he bangs when he sees you because you either give him food, which outweighs the problem of standing still, or you give him freedom- either by riding or turning out. You may feel its only 4 hours in but possibly to him its a long time, whereas another horse may not be so bothered and so wouldnt bang the door.
 
I have watched this debate develop over the past couple of weeks and I'm affraid I have to agree with the majority. Teddyt, wether you agree with this or not you have to admit you are on the margins of 'equestrianism' and perhaps not best placed to opine in quite the way you do. You have three rescued ponies turned out in a field 24/7. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that if that is what you want but that is some way removed from 'keeping horse's' like most people. However you approach other people's opinions and situations as if they are wrong and you are absolutely right. Unfortunately it is the other way round. You say you have qualifications in animal behaviour. Well done. Now go out and work with horses and horse people in the real world.

I have passed my driving test but that does not give me the right to go up to Lewis Hamilton and talk to him about driving on an equal footing. Why? Because he undoubtedly knows more about it than me. I accept that in the same way as you should accept that other people might just know a bit more about the practical side of looking after horses than you.

There would be no Horse and Hound if horses were always looked after like you advocate because there would be nothing interesting to write about. There would be no forum to air views on because there would be no horses. Horses have been domesticated for hundreds of years and the reason more horses are bred is because they serve a purpose and there is an industry surrounding them. For this to happen they need to do things that humans require of them. It is not cruel. Do you think every animal in its wild surroundings swans about doing what the hell it wants all day do you?

And quite how you can accept that people can do something as grotesque as put a lump of metal in a horse's mouth jump on its back and make it go round in circles or jump over things is amazing when you cannot accept they may wish to stop it hurting itself or annoying them by harmlessly stopping it doing something destructive.
 
angox said:
I have watched this debate develop over the past couple of weeks and I'm affraid I have to agree with the majority. Teddyt, wether you agree with this or not you have to admit you are on the margins of 'equestrianism' and perhaps not best placed to opine in quite the way you do. You have three rescued ponies turned out in a field 24/7. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that if that is what you want but that is some way removed from 'keeping horse's' like most people. However you approach other people's opinions and situations as if they are wrong and you are absolutely right. Unfortunately it is the other way round. You say you have qualifications in animal behaviour. Well done. Now go out and work with horses and horse people in the real world.

I have passed my driving test but that does not give me the right to go up to Lewis Hamilton and talk to him about driving on an equal footing. Why? Because he undoubtedly knows more about it than me. I accept that in the same way as you should accept that other people might just know a bit more
about the practical side of looking after horses than you.

There would be no Horse and Hound if horses were always looked after like you advocate because there would be nothing interesting to write about. There would be no forum to air views on because there would be no horses. Horses have been domesticated for hundreds of years and the reason more horses are bred is because they serve a purpose and there is an industry surrounding them. For this to happen they need to do things that humans require of them. It is not cruel. Do you think every animal in its wild surroundings swans about doing what the hell it wants all day do you?

And quite how you can accept that people can do something as grotesque as put a lump of metal in a horse's mouth jump on its back and make it go round in circles or jump over things is amazing when you cannot accept they may wish to stop it hurting itself or annoying them by harmlessly stopping it doing
something destructive.
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WOW welcome to the forum.
 
I tried everything suggest with Samson. In the end I found that just telling him good boy when he stopped and saying NO was all it took. He also didn't get fed when he banged I made him back up and stand still
 
Just found this thread... I own a QuitKick. Works brilliantly, after many months of trying just about everything else people have mentioned here. Money very well spent if you ask me. :)
 
teddyt said:
Yes, the horse is doing it because its frustrated. however frustrated the owner feels you can bet tha the horse is more.



Man made problem! a horse wont stand in the field and kick the hedge or thin air. So WHY is it kicking the door?
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Oh yes it will. As per my previous post earlier on, one of my liveries waves it's front legs about, paws the ground etc if it thinks it should be coming in.
 
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