How to stop horse spinning on hacks? Trees hurt...

[Sol]

Problem has reached new heights of annoyingness! He's otherwise quite good to hack, but occasionally he takes an intense dislike to certain areas it seems, occasionally just a random thing.
Anyway, Dan's favourite trick is to go from walking/trotting along quite nicely, to doing a 180 degree turn left. Doesn't matter how prepared I am, he just uses force and does it anyway. I've tried allowing him to approach things in his own time - he gets bored and spins anyway. Really pushing him forward he can still spin, is inclined to do it at higher speeds. Holding the whip in my left hand so that he can see it (he hates the whip!) he doesn't care, having another horse on his left, he'll run straight into it.
It's just a really handy way of evading it seems! It's also really annoying.

Came to a head today when he did this, but rather than doing the full 180 degrees, spun off into a wooded area - low branch.... my head..... well, it didn't really work. Eventually caught him, dragged him through all the brambles and back to the road, got back on and we were fine, nothing hurt. About 10mins later though I started to go into shock, which isn't too unusual but didn't have much choice but to keep going, as nobody would answer their phones! Nearly got run off the canal bridge by some idiot in a car who couldn't wait 5 seconds for us to get over it, which had me in tears and I admit, I was a lot less than polite to him but did remember my manners when sane people passed. Eventually managed to get someone to meet us for the last little stretch after meeting a house with england flags which had me shouting kind of hysterically at horse to get him to move, it's the only thing that works usually but I possibly went a bit over board, he got the gist though o.o Then met an old lady who thought it would be a great idea to pick up a 2ft long stick to throw for her dog just as we got level with her.... *sigh*
Got back in one piece anyway, guessing I'll be trying to persuade my dad to get me a new riding hat now though and have already lectured several people about having their phones not just switched on, but somewhere that they are likely to hear them!

However, I haven't come up with many solutions to the actual problem yet. Side reins may work to stop him being able to move his head round too far but I'm not certain if this would help much, or blinkers maybe? (so he can't look behind, will be less inclined to whip around)....
I really don't know, and I only hack out for HIS sake anyway, I'm not a lover of hacking but feel a bit bad schooling all the time and feel that a horse ought to be hackable anyway so don't want to just avoid it. But this is bugging me, it isn't safe and it isn't fun!


Last thing - I also advise that before you hack, you tell someone not only where you are going, but to make sure they have their phone turned on, and WITH them! Apparently people don't feel the need to have -mobile- phones with them, which in my opinion almost defeats the point of having one that is infact mobile.....


Sausage rolls &/or ice cream for anyone who read even part of that!

 

[Witchy]

First thing that came to my mind when reading was side reins too, blinkers sounds another possible.... Stronger bit or martingale? Just gotta try different things I guess.

Well done and/but be careful....

 

[Sol]

He's already hacked in a mullen mouth pelham (two reins) and running martingale, exactly the same as he has for jumping. He's actually quite easy to over bit so I don't want to go any stronger with that as he goes skywards instead hence two reins. Quirky sod. I think I'll give side reins a go first, could look interesting combined with the double reins but if it works, it works!

Annoying thing is, a lot of the time he's happy to wander along on the buckle, not phased by plenty of things but he seems to be gradually becoming more dramatic as he gets older!

Thanks No worries, I do try to be careful, hence not wanting to do anything that will make him react worse!

 

[Abbeygale]

I used to have a horse that did this - there were a few places in particular that she would always do, and for a long time I lost half of my hacking routes, as I didn't dare take her to those places. Her worst one was doing this on a fairly busy B road, right before a big bend - where the cars always came whipping round the corner - so I can fully sympathise with you. The number of times I ended up in tears with her...

How is your horse with you getting on and off? And is there any signs that your horse is about to spin round? My mare was usually fairly forward going, and off the leg, but would start backing off the leg just as she was planning her attack. In the end, to get my hacking back, if she started to mess around, I would get off and lead her a few minutes down the road, and then get back on. 99% of the time, she would then go on and carry on down the road as though nothing had happened. My mare was ok with me getting on and off, and she wasn't huge though, so this worked for me.

I know a lot of people would say that you shouldn't get off to get your horse past its problem "areas" - but I found that it saved a lot of stress, frustration and tears to do this, and then we could carry on and enjoy our ride.

Although I did get my mare past this stage, I never did do a lot of hacking with her. She was always happy to be schooled, and so I mainly schooled her, but gave her as much variety schooling as I could. Then when we did go out, she seemed to enjoy it more

Fingers crossed you can get your horse through this stage too xx

 

[Sparkles]

Probably shall get flamedfor this with the recent choice of topics...but I'd honestly just give it one good well-timed smack to stop the spins. But again, well timed so he gets the smack just as he's about to spin. One of ours we got in earlier this year did this [he was not a huge whip fan either] when he was nappy hacking out on his own, we'd be trotting along happily and then just *bam* out of nowhere he'd duck his shoulder and spin out back round to the left. One short, sharp, well timed tap with the stick catching him just as he did this once, stopped his behaviour dead and is good as gold.

Carrying a schooling stick in that hand may help too possibly? As you won't have to compensate re-arranging your reins and he'll see it more clearly.

 

[Sol]

I used to have a horse that did this - there were a few places in particular that she would always do, and for a long time I lost half of my hacking routes, as I didn't dare take her to those places. Her worst one was doing this on a fairly busy B road, right before a big bend - where the cars always came whipping round the corner - so I can fully sympathise with you. The number of times I ended up in tears with her...

How is your horse with you getting on and off? And is there any signs that your horse is about to spin round? My mare was usually fairly forward going, and off the leg, but would start backing off the leg just as she was planning her attack. In the end, to get my hacking back, if she started to mess around, I would get off and lead her a few minutes down the road, and then get back on. 99% of the time, she would then go on and carry on down the road as though nothing had happened. My mare was ok with me getting on and off, and she wasn't huge though, so this worked for me.

I know a lot of people would say that you shouldn't get off to get your horse past its problem "areas" - but I found that it saved a lot of stress, frustration and tears to do this, and then we could carry on and enjoy our ride.

Although I did get my mare past this stage, I never did do a lot of hacking with her. She was always happy to be schooled, and so I mainly schooled her, but gave her as much variety schooling as I could. Then when we did go out, she seemed to enjoy it more

Fingers crossed you can get your horse through this stage too xx

Thanks for your reply
He's ok with me getting on and off normally, he let me get back on today anyway! But has had his moments in the past. Only 15.2 so not exactly hard to get back on anyway I did actually just lead him past the 'spooky bit' today that resulted in the whole incident anyway, as I couldn't be bothered with the fight to get past it by then and there was another 'spooky bit' if we turned around. He still looked when I led him past but walked ok... silly horse!

He doesn't tend to give any warning at all, sometimes he'll freeze first, usually if he sees something in the distance that he's decided shouldn't be there.... then if I try to send him on, he spins. Otherwise, there are at least two 'spooky places' where he regularly seems to reach some invisible line and decide he can't go on! yet he'll walk across the motorway bridge which he genuinely finds quite scary with lots of leg and verbal encouragement, which makes me think he is just being a twit when he does the spinning stuff? :/

Thank again

 

[Whoopit]

Mine did this. All of a sudden he'd bounce of his front feet and whip round and then just stand there.

I was advised to keep turning him in a circle - either the way he went or in the opposite direction to which he turned (if you can catch them in time). Turn and re-present. He soon got bored after 5 or 6 times of this and (touch wood) has stopped doing it when he sees stuff he doesn't like. He is only young though and going through that trying it on phase - he doesn't like puddles and we've gone from stopped to snort at them to darting round them to launching over them. Least he doesn't whip round now though!!! Oh, same cure for the backing up thing he went through too, in case you find yourself with that too at any point!!

Oh and a good strong no-nonsense "GET ON" growled menacingly in the ear also helped.

Good luck with whichever option you find/choose to remedy the problem

 

[Sol]

Probably shall get flamedfor this with the recent choice of topics...but I'd honestly just give it one good well-timed smack to stop the spins. But again, well timed so he gets the smack just as he's about to spin. One of ours we got in earlier this year did this [he was not a huge whip fan either] when he was nappy hacking out on his own, we'd be trotting along happily and then just *bam* out of nowhere he'd duck his shoulder and spin out back round to the left. One short, sharp, well timed tap with the stick catching him just as he did this once, stopped his behaviour dead and is good as gold.

Carrying a schooling stick in that hand may help too possibly? As you won't have to compensate re-arranging your reins and he'll see it more clearly.

No flaming from me anyway
Thing is, I am now worried about using the whip on him again. I'm not sure he's exactly what people would class as a bolter, but he does pretty much run blind at times, without brakes, and this just seems to be one of those things that would set him off.... In all honesty, I think he DOES use just about anything as an excuse to get out of doing.... just about everything. That, and he does it so quickly I'm not sure I COULD catch it at the right time, I obviously didn't today and my head hurts for it
Whip was also in my left hand all the time, and is bright orange, so now way he couldn't see it I don't carry it 'properly' either, so it sits well in his line of sight. Apparently he only pretends to be afraid of it though, damn!
Might sound awful to some but even carrying it so that it's stuck forwards, so that if he moved his head across, his head would hit it (no, I've never hit his head with the whip) doesn't seem to bother him enough to stop it.

Confusing horse I may just give up hacking, it's too much like hard work!

 

[Sol]

Mine did this. All of a sudden he'd bounce of his front feet and whip round and then just stand there.

I was advised to keep turning him in a circle - either the way he went or in the opposite direction to which he turned (if you can catch them in time). Turn and re-present. He soon got bored after 5 or 6 times of this and (touch wood) has stopped doing it when he sees stuff he doesn't like. He is only young though and going through that trying it on phase - he doesn't like puddles and we've gone from stopped to snort at them to darting round them to launching over them. Least he doesn't whip round now though!!! Oh, same cure for the backing up thing he went through too, in case you find yourself with that too at any point!!

Oh and a good strong no-nonsense "GET ON" growled menacingly in the ear also helped.

Good luck with whichever option you find/choose to remedy the problem

Trying to remember, I think I've tried just circling him before, but when he's done it due to spooking at a vehicle and tried to sod off down the road immediately after and he does eventually give up and stand still. Might give it a go for this too.... can only try!
We've not had backing up except when I was trying to teach him to halt, nor do I want it! Had enough of his well thought out evasion tactics now! o.o

I think I have the growling down to a fine art now, I've also found mention of bullets or tin cans & dog meat helps occasionally too...... (I know, I'm awful)

Thanks

 

[Bay_Beasty]

Glad you are ok. I personally wouldn't use side reins. just incase, when he feels he wants to spin, he thinks he is tied down to much and then goes for the leap in the air approach and spin (have seen a few off these and they look pretty nasty). I would try blinkers, of fluffy cheek pieces behind the eyes (work like blinkers) and perhaps a market harborough (sp). Hope you get it sorted though.

 

[Whoopit]

Trying to remember, I think I've tried just circling him before, but when he's done it due to spooking at a vehicle and tried to sod off down the road immediately after and he does eventually give up and stand still. Might give it a go for this too.... can only try!
We've not had backing up except when I was trying to teach him to halt, nor do I want it! Had enough of his well thought out evasion tactics now! o.o

I think I have the growling down to a fine art now, I've also found mention of bullets or tin cans & dog meat helps occasionally too...... (I know, I'm awful)

Thanks

That's not awful - i've told mine i'm BBQing him a couple of weeks!! He's only 6yrs so will be nice and tender. . . !! Laughing!!

When I say turning i mean do it until you're dizzy then re-approach. If he does it again, do it again - mine once decided a Land Rover on a farm track was the most terrifying he'd ever seen (having just been passed by one on a main road). The driver turned the engine off and we were there for about ten minutes, twiddling about in circles with me growling like a possessed nutcase!!! I apologised profusely to the driver (who was clearly a bit brassed off after 10 minutes!) and then felt like such an amateur but it paid off. It's also happened with a car he passes on the way off the yard everytime we hack out, a trailer (he still thinks it has teeth even now), another horse (because of course, he's never seen those before), tractors and horse gates (MUCH more frightening than a normal gate).

I sympathise - it's very frustrating and I was at the point where I didn't want to take him out. Try it and see. It might not work for yours but I was exasperated so would have tried anything!

 

[jhoward]

Iwouldnt use side reins, the sudden sock in the gob could be enough to make him rear? and theres no way of quick relising them if he does get a fright and reasct to them.

How about going back to a snaffle and using draw reins. it soundlike he always go the same way s maybe do a few hacks with him bending the opposite way also? any thing to help you block the spin.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I can recommend a PeeWee bit for this very problem. Mine stopped a 17hh Clydie who could set her neck from turning when I didn't want her to, has taught a big warmblood to turn when asked and is currently stopping an IDx from turning when she sees a large tractor. The advantage is that you just ride with your normal tack, no faffing around with draw/side reins, the bit is relatively mild, so the horse is unlikely to react badly to it, and if you want to turn until the horse is dizzy, you can, very easily, without pulling the bit through the mouth.

 

[Sol]

Pearlsasinger - he's had the PeeWee in before..... not entirely sure if I trust it that much (though it HAS solved a lot of my problems before!) but may give it a go Shall see how he behaves in all other respects for a while..... I think!

Thanks everyone for all your replies - I'm too tired to reply individually now (And I only lunged the horse just now! That's bad... ) but have read all your ideas I'll probably give him a few days of schooling etc and try a short hack after a schooling session later this week with another horse and see how we get on! Hopefully it'll be less disasterous Thanks again!

 

[intouch]

Maybe try teaching him the one rein stop. You can find out about it on google. Basically its similar to what whoopit said. If you teach him to bend to a stop, when he spins or tries to, instead of stopping it, make him bend. If his head is right round, he wont be able to run off in another direction. Eventually he should get bored of circling so it may be worth trying.

 

[Sol]

*runs off to search google*
thanks

 

[fatponee]

Just out of interest, does he spin/nap if you hack out with other horses? Would it be worth hacking out with a friend for a while, just so you can start to feel a bit more confident with him?

I have been stuck in the middle of the road MANY times before...vvv embarassing! Keep working at your hacking and you'll have a breakthrough eventually!

 

[Sol]

Yep, he will still do it in company :/ It is slightly better, but not much, and worse if the other horse reacts in any way.

Thanks, I suppose it doesn't help that I don't hack very often (once a fortnight at most maybe? ) so he never really gets used to it. Must start doing short hacks after schooling!!

 

[Bowen4Horses]

okay, i'm thinking this up as a i type and i;ve had a bit too much Pimms so it may not make the most sense...

could you try using his 'evasion' against him? kind of take the position of power away from him? eg, as soon as you get on board, spin him around the way he likes to spin. hack down the road, stop, make him spin round a few times. carry on. etc? so he doesn't think spinning is 'his' trick. but you can actually make him do it on command?

does that make sense? if not, blame the pimms.

 

[Luci07]

Mine has always done this but I could laugh it off and sit it out - I should not have ignored it because now he has got a whole lot quicker and I have come off twice on hacks recently - the last time he had absolutely no flaming excuse as he was being walked out, in company, to cool off after jumping. A car came towards us (like he hasn't seen those before) and about oh, speeding say 6 mph? (private road). Git dumped me on a concrete road and then started grazing.

In my case I can't allow him to have a loose rein and nice stretch on the way home at all now, as he takes the pee and I am currently hacking him out in draw reins. I honestly don't care if I get shot down in flames for this crime - in this instance, my horse is just taking the p**s and there is nothing funny in having a horse dump you on the road! He will get over it - walked him out after jumping yesterday to cool him down but had to "ride him up" the whole way round. He did try to whip round when he saw 2 motorbikes but didn't have a lot of say as was in full jumping gear.

My horse is normally quite bright. Once he has worked out he can't do it, then I hope I can revert to normal hacking gear. He is also a: not in any pain b: a youngster c: overfed and underworked. I have had to reduce our hacks as will not hack out on my own atm for safetys sake but he was being hacked out 3 or 4 times a week so hardly new scares!

He is just being a g*t!

 

[Sol]

clipcloppop - I think I get what you mean, and it does sound like it could work

Thought - give the horse the Pimms and he might not quite fancy the spinning so much? xD

 

[Sol]

Luci07 - all sounds very familiar! I don't have a problem with draw reins, they were obviously invented for a reason after all. You try to do nice things for horses and this is what you get in return! So sometimes, you have to be a bit horrid to be nice
haha, we once met a concrete mixer, I forgave him for that spook, they are quite scary, but bins & recycling boxes are terrifying, no matter how often we see them! Loopy creature....
I hope you get yours sorted out soon too!

 

[HollyWoozle]

I have this problem with Belle too. She is not really spooky but we'll be walking down the road, she'll see something which worries her and will stop dead. Then if I ask her to walk forward then she turns 180 degrees to the left (though she doesn't walk on, she just turns and stops thankfully!). This is a bit disconcerting for me and any cars which are behind us!

It happened on Friday when she turned a few times despite me turning her back, leg on etc. I did give her a tap with the stick in the end, though it was definitely a tap and not a smack. I am not a fan of smacking them past something which she was clearly afraid of, though I must say that the tap did get her moving forwards without freaking her out. I think that she always turns left so perhaps I just need to focus on countering it with right rein at the ready? I think I sort of know she's going to do it, get my leg on and drop the contact. :-/

 

[jumpthemoon]

I wouldn't use side reins either. Dangerous IMO, especially on the road. How's his schooling? Does he work nice and round and can you keep him there when you are hacking? I would be inclined to make sure I could work him in a nice outline, then when I got to somewhere i would expect him to think about spinning, start doing some shoulder in and really have him in a deep outline so he can't just spin round. i find this works really well with mine. It's only any good though if you can keep the outline. Does he go forwards off your leg nicely? Working n that can help as well.

Good luck - glad you weren't hurt too much!

 

[Luci07]

Luci07 - all sounds very familiar! I don't have a problem with draw reins, they were obviously invented for a reason after all. You try to do nice things for horses and this is what you get in return! So sometimes, you have to be a bit horrid to be nice
haha, we once met a concrete mixer, I forgave him for that spook, they are quite scary, but bins & recycling boxes are terrifying, no matter how often we see them! Loopy creature....
I hope you get yours sorted out soon too!

I accept the blame in so far as I chose to ignore it previously as could sit him spinning or jumping about but having been binned at the speed of light recently, greatly regret it! I chose to take the route of not making a big deal about it and not to scare him more but should have been stricter so he understood it was not acceptable to behave like that.

Actually bruised my hip bone last time (docters explanation of why I started walking as though I had had a "wee" accident) so you can see why I am a little less sympathetic now!

 

[MrsMozart]

Sorry, terribly rude of me, but I haven't read all the replies

Have you tried, when he spins, keeping turning him the way he as spun; keep it up until he's had enough, then keep going. I've tried it, or similar, a few times. Dizz used to spin like a top and I found that continuing the spin soon stopped her.

Definately need a new hat

Hugs and a hot choccy hun.

 

[Sol]

Schooling is ... ok.... the perfectionist in me would rather say AWFUL but it's honestly not that bad. He works in an outline and is reasonably forward, schools in a snaffle.

I'm starting to wonder if I'm thinking about this all the wrong way. He's actually a clever, sensitive little horse - though one that doesn't tend to think, just acts. He's not 'sharp', infact, quite lazy, and good at evading when he wants to. Easily worried, but not quick to panic.
Thinking about it, he's also probably never done much hacking. He was supposed to have hunted before we bought him, and that was it. Would it be worth going right back and taking him for a few walks in hand even, just to see how he is? (the first 'scary spot' isn't a million miles away) and just go right back to building his confidence up slowly and see how he goes? But still dealing with the napping sort of behaviour (the idea of keeping him spinning doesn't sound too evil ) so that he knows he can't get away with misbehaving, but lots of fuss for good behaviour.

Sensible plan? Or no? Open to better ideas!

 

[Sol]

MrsMozart - no worries Hot chocolate and hugs much appreciated
Will be pestering dad about new hat as soon as he's home. I really ought to bin the one I whacked on the road the other year as it sits around the house and I was very bad and of all things, went and tried 3 youngsters for someone the other week wearing it, jumping and all If it's not there, I can't use it!

 

[rangerover]

Mine does this too...remember the post where I got slated for not riding my horse correctly? I have never found a cure, have tried the spinning thing but it's normally a few minutes after and I read somewhere that you have to correct them within so many seconds of them doing it. She also backs off the leg, the more 'pressure' you put on her,(leg/smack with schooling whip) the more she runs backwards. I have backed her all the way down a lane before, the trouble with traffic it always appears just when you don't want to give in/stop. Will keep reading this post with interest to see if there are any other answers. Incidentally, my horse will go down the main road, past barking dogs, tractors etc. but some bit of nothing and she spins like a top, normally to the left...worse injury sor far, broken left-wrist + right ribs. Lazy cob.

 

[E_Lister]

I am (with my pony, of course!) the nanny for a horse like this. My pony is totally unflappable and is a "plod along, ignoring silly hissy fitting horse" type.

I ride as close to the other horse as is safe (maybe 1x his length, out of reach of stray legs etc) and as soon as he starts backing off the leg for my friend, I encourage Ellie to move forwards a bit faster and come towards the side he spins to.

It may seem like an odd tactic but it seems quite successful, with him either meeting us mid spin and bumping into Ellie's ample tummy, being bounced back on track and walking on sensibly with his tail between his legs feeling like a bit of a fool! Or, Ellie's head being shoved up his back end, meaning he is shunted forwards and gets distracted from the "scary dragon monsters"... whatever they may be

Now, obviously this won't work if your horse kicks. It also needs a horse which can be hacked out with you and is nearly 100% bombproof, which can follow your instructions to the letter in order to make this trick work, and which doesn't mind being used as a bumper by a silly scaredy cat horsey.

But the horse in question has reduced from 10 spins in a short hack (45mins) to 2 in a long hack (2 hours) so worked for him very very well!