how to warn dog owners about scaredy horse?

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ThePony

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Hi,
Where I hack out (only place I can hack without boxing out) the first section is super popular with dog walkers. No prob at all, it is really wide, most dog walkers call their dog to them and have them sit by their feet or put them on a lead while we walk past. I am always massively grateful to them for bothering to do this so always smile and thank them, then we walk out to get out of their space so they might continue to enjoy their walk off the lead. However on each ride I get chased, usually a couple of times. The dogs totally ignore the owner squeeking for fluffykins to return (assuming owner has even noticed) while horrid fluffy barks and runs at my mares legs, while she sticks her ears right back and threatens to kick out or rush off. I always try and keep her calm in walk (I don't want dog to equal 'belt off in trot') while politly warning the dog owner that she will kick out at said dog as she is scared of them (I get an evil look at best).

My PR offensive is clearly not working as it is getting worse so I was thinking about getting a high viz vest with a message on - thoughts? In an ideal world what I would write would probably be quite rude, but what can I put that is short, non offensive yet might help prevent this problem happening quite so often as it is really spoiling our rides and just isn't fair on my mare - dogs running at her are the only thing she is scared of (she was bitten by a farm dog at our last yeard - we left!) and I just don't think how the dog walkers are acting is reasnoble?

Tbh I don't have if half as bad as some on the yard - one girl with a sensible 4yo ended up spending most of her last ride hanging on to her neck as she kept rearing due to dogs running at her, then owners using those bright ball throwers to chuck balls from behind her - and kept doing it all the time mare was doing her best to bugger off and loose rider!

I absolutly understand that you can't expect non-horsey people to understand what a horse might find scary, but a little manners in allowing people/horses/dogs to enjoy the same space without injury can surely be expected?

Help!
 
I think you are onto a hiding to nothing. My own experience of asking dog owners to call their dogs off, is that all I get is a tirade of foul mouthed abuse.
 
The Horrid one hates dogs. I ask walkers to put there dogs on leads and always get the same reply "oh he's fine with horses" to which I reply "my pony doesn't like dogs and will stamp on it if it comes to close" Normaly that and Horrid looking at the dog like a fire breathing dragon makes them put it on a lead. :p ;) :).

As for the tabbard I used to have problems with cycleists passing to fast and to close without warning so I put a bit of paper over my tabbard saying "Caution I kick when scared" Suddenly everyone slowed down and warned me they where behind me, then passed very wide :D So that may be worth a shot. Not shore what you would put on it though.

Don't realy know what else to suggest. Hopefuly others may be alittle more helpfull. :)
 
When i was a young girl riding my pony (long time ago) if i got chased by dogs i turned around and chased the dogs off this soon made them run!!!!! It does depend on the horse though!!
 
Hi-viz generally helps, gives people more time to recall and leash the dog. I always really appreciate the extra moments I get.:) Be careful of admitting liability in any wording though - e.g., something like 'Caution this horse is scared of dogs' could be used to show that you were being irresponsible if your horse should kick a dog and you were to be sued.

The word needs to be gotten out somehow I agree - maybe your local BHS rep could write to the local papers with some advice for dog walkers? There are things you could do like asking local trainers to mention it, but that will be time consuming for you so it is how much a crusade you want to make of it for yourself.

I think part of the trouble is that for many people, contact with horses is rare and the only time they see them they are a. slowing traffic or b. stopping their dogs running loose. If you were not aware of the reasons behind needing to slow down or recall dogs, you could easily get the idea that it is just because riders are an arrogant bunch of snobs who think they own the countryside. It does fall to riders to try and show that this is not the case, even though it should not be necessary for us to do so. Maybe a letter to a dog magazine might help too?

It should be give and take on both sides, and for lots of us it is, not all dog walkers are clueless and some of us are even riders ourselves (before the inevitable flood of anti-dog comments comes in:rolleyes:)
 
mmm, that does seem to be the way it is looking! It makes me so mad though, why should my hack be made so much more dangerous because their dog doesn't come to call? Apart from anything else, I don't think it is the dogs fault, the owner should ensure they have control in a public place surely?!

The park isn't all open to dogs anyway (I have to go through the dog bit to get to the dog free bit!) but so many owners totally ignore the signs and just have their dogs running loose in the no-dog area. No safe area anymore!
 
learn how to use a hunting whip and carry it with you on your rides.
Actually if you have warned the owners and they still let their dogs run amok round your horse's legs, then they deserve everything that might be coming their way...

Here in the New Forest, I'm sure "horse owners" and "dog walkers" each regard the other as a damn nuisance, but we generally try and rub along together, we all have to share the same space and all that... A few notable exceptions on each side of course. :(

A Big Fat No to the idea of having something printed on a high viz waistcoat. At best you'll look a prat, and most of them won't take any notice anyway, not least because the message will be visible only once you have gone past....
 
Spudlet said:
I think part of the trouble is that for many people, contact with horses is rare and the only time they see them they are a. slowing traffic or b. stopping their dogs running loose. If you were not aware of the reasons behind needing to slow down or recall dogs, you could easily get the idea that it is just because riders are an arrogant bunch of snobs who think they own the countryside. It does fall to riders to try and show that this is not the case, even though it should not be necessary for us to do so. Maybe a letter to a dog magazine might help too?

It should be give and take on both sides, and for lots of us it is, not all dog walkers are clueless and some of us are even riders ourselves (before the inevitable flood of anti-dog comments comes in:rolleyes:)
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V true, it is why I always make sure to be very polite and speak with a smile whether profusly thanking them or asking them to call the dog off as I am concerened my mare might kick out.

They should be reasnobly aware of horses as it is the same dog walkers that I and others on the yard have trouble with and the majority of the park is kept for horses (it is private land that we are allowed to use within the rules). They can see us miles off! I will go for high viz anyway (any help would be great!), I have stopped wearing it as we don't go on the roads, shall pull it back out of the cupboard!

Laurawheeler - I get just the same 'oh he doesn't mind horses'! Well, that is lovely, but you might have noticed my horse is just a smidge larger than your dog, perhaps we should also consider how much my horse likes your dog?!

I totally don't expect them to spoil their walk for me, but just basic manners would allow us all to enjoy the same space.
 
PennyJ said:
A Big Fat No to the idea of having something printed on a high viz waistcoat. At best you'll look a prat, and most of them won't take any notice anyway, not least because the message will be visible only once you have gone past....
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That was my main concern - I don't want to add fuel to the 'them and us' fire as I think alot of non-horsey people view horse riders as stuck up snobs - mind you, hearing what some people on the yard say to them I would say they were spot on in that assumption in some cases!!

Hunt whip sounds a good idea - I don't hunt, where could I learn how to handle a hunt whip? I don't want to tie us all in knots and wind up with more trouble!!
 
I'm quite lucky, most dog owners in my area put thier mutts on a lead.
I also have a terrifyingly huge horse, who would trample poor fluffykins without a second glance (or without even noticing probably, with his soup-bowl feet). The other looks like a fire-breathing dragon, and has a kick like lightening, terrifies not only the owner, but the poor dog itself.

So most people tend to stay out of my way...

I find that if a polite "please could you hang on to your dog for a sec whilst we pass?" doesn't work, then "put it on the blinkin' lead, or see what happens if you don't!" works just as well.

I think I once told one horrible man that my dad was a copper and that the horse was an ex-police horse, so he better stop foul-mouthing me and take his dog, and skidaddle. He did so, swiftly.
My dad is a graphic designer, and my horse would spook at a policemans hat, nevermind a rioting bunch of yobs. :D
 
I find waving a stick and bellowing usually does the trick.....if they're thick enough to not notice their out of control dog is causing problems and being a danger....then they don't deserve politeness.:mad:

And bear in mind.....its an offence to not have your dog under control in a public place.

I have on occasion turned my horse around and ridden straight at the dog. Funny how they don't like it that way round.

PS Today I am hormonal.:o
 
I would ask them to put it on a lead, but I think that is a bit of an ask when generally they are just minding their own business and having a nice walk? Prob is you don't know which will be the troublesome mutt until is it barking around you! The owner is usually miles off so a nice quiet chat wouldn't work so well! I just really want to be polite about it as I don't want them to hate horse riders - it won't help the problem at all! But I do feel I have just as much right as them to quietly go about my business without bothering anyone.
 
I'm having something similar but different with my pony at the moment. We had an incident with a too fast cyclist on a narrow part of our bridleway a few weeks ago and now I have a pony that is spinning at bikes coming towards him and joggers as she was with a jogger so my horse has associated the two as a scary situation. So on every hack since if I'm not in front I ask the person in front to tell cyclists to come to a stop and if I'm on my own I do the same and explain once they have stopped and we're going past why - and if they're head down beetling along I start giving hand signals (polite please stop/slow down ones :D) my worry is though that so many cyclists and joggers now where Ipods etc listening to stuff they don't always look up til the last moment. It's a tough one..I've invested in one of those Polite hi viz vests and I wear it not just on the road but even if we're just going to the end of the bridleway as it's very busy with walkers, joggers, cyclist, dogwalkers. Overall we're lucky with dogs as most of the people you meet tuck in and contain them and of those that don't they are local dogs we meet out all the time so mine seems used to them. I think all you can do is what you're doing, be polite and cheerful, issue your request which you're doing for their own best interests as well as keeping you and your horse safe too. Unfortunately you're also going to meet people who are not used to horses and how to be around them in confined spaces or really think about how a dog could be injured or be the cause of horse bolting off if frightened etc. I'm happy to share the space I do with other users but just want it to work for everyone as we all have a right to be there.
 
I normally say that I'd appreciate them putting the dog on the lead / having the collar held as my horse is scared of dogs and will kick them. (She isn't scared but does hate them around her hindlegs). One woman the other week tried to say it wasn't a problem as her dog was fine with horses, he was a collie and herding was natural and all he would do was herd her up. My answer was something along the lines of that was the problem because if he went anywhere near her hind legs she WOULD kick him and I would not be held liable for any damage as her dog was loose. Dog was soon held by her. I always make a point of thanking them profusely but tbh most dog walkers around here are fine.
 
Most dog owners see me from a distance with my long sleeved Hi-Viz jacket on and tend to grab hold of their dogs. I suspect most of them think I am a mounted police officer from the distance. (Here in Hertfordshire the police have been recruiting horse riders and their horses to become Special Constables to pastrol the rural areas).

Unfortunately there are a number of dog owners out there that just can not control their dogs and these of course are the ones that cause the problems.
 
I ride out in an ex-police riding coat when on my own (and sometimes in company) with my schooling whip... not as a schooling aid but as a 'dog waggler' (lol - 7 year old daughter made that one up!)

Go for either a 'Polite' coat or an ex police jacket (they are on Ebay and just have the Police logo cut out) plus a long schooling whip - the majority of dogs will back down if you move towards them, especially at speed... my response is now 'please get your dog(s) under control, my horse has metal shoes on his feet and one kick could kill which is the last thing I would want to happen'. :(
 
I was hacking around the fields the other day when a young border collie started trying to herd my horse whilst barking. My boy is fine but on principle I told the lady that I could not guarantee that my horse would not kick and told her if my horse did kick a direct hit could kill her dog. He did get a bit cheesed off and raised a back leg in warning.

She just stood there looking a bit shocked whilst fluffy was barking and herding so we walked towards her with dog following and I asked her to grab the dog whilst also telling her to keep away from his back end for her own safety.

In the end I resorted to shouting SIT repeatedly in my best exorcist voice and the dog was so shocked he headed back to his owner, lady grabbed dog and headed off.

It was one of those hindsight moments when I wish I had told her to put her young dog on the lead if she sees a horse in the future as we were near to a bridle path. I dread to think what could have happened if they met a non dog-proof horse/pony.

The path I take is busy with dog walkers and I have been half expecting a problem at some stage. I must say most dog walkers are very good and will grab their dogs. I do make an extra special effort to smile and brightly thank them or mention how well trained their dogs are if they do.

If I see something Staffy, Mastiff or big in the distance I will eye them up and sometimes stop and wait to see how the dog reacts before continuing. I find that if you grind to a halt the owners will realise something is up and try and grab the dog.

I think all you can do is very clearly tell unruly dog owners that you cannot guarantee that your horse will not kick if he feels threatened and if he does he could kill their dog.
 
spottydottypony said:
When i was a young girl riding my pony (long time ago) if i got chased by dogs i turned around and chased the dogs off this soon made them run!!!!! It does depend on the horse though!!
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Ditto to this as a last resort, I normally stand still and tell the owner that my pony will kick if he feels threatened, if the owner still doesn't bother we run at the dog as I tell it to *******k off.
 
Just a little warning - unfortunately, any homemade hi viz, as annoying as it is, will as good as accept liability for anything your horse may do :( eg, 'my horse kicks' 'young horse' etc.
I usually shout 'can you put your dog on the lead now please, my horse is scared of dogs and may kick out?'
My first pony did actually catch a JRT who was running and snapping at his legs. Fortunately the owner just said, oh no worries it will teach him not to do it again!
K x
 
KellysHeroes said:
My first pony did actually catch a JRT who was running and snapping at his legs. Fortunately the owner just said, oh no worries it will teach him not to do it again!
K x
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That happened to my collie pup many years ago, she got tangled up in my horses legs when we were cantering up a hill, she rolled all the way down the hill again but was unhurt, and indeed she never did it again!!! :)
 
I like the idea of getting the BHS to do something. Why don't you get in touch with them, or maybe a local bridleways group, and see if between you, you can word a poster to put up at suitable places on the walk, warning dog owners of the risk that dogs pose to horses, and vice versa, as well as calling for some simple safety precautions.
 
I usually turn my horse towards the dog and bellow (and I mean: bellow) "NO" repeatedly - this normally stops the dog in its tracks and it quickly returns to its owner. I always carry a schooling whip (longer than a crop) as I have had occasions when Ive resorted to whacking the pesky dog. I had one incident when a staffie came out of the bushes (owner nowhere to be seen) and was jumping off the floor trying to clamp its jaws round my horse's nose. I had to get off to sort it out - I stood over the dog and screamed deafeningly right in its ears to clear off. It turned tail and scarpered!
My horses are pretty good with dogs as they have always been around the yard but my big boy doesn't tolerate them coming near him and he, unfortunately, killed a walker's dog when it strayed into his field - he just stomped all over it. Even now if my JRT gets too close he will lift a front leg and try to stamp on her.
 
So, I was thinking I might write to one of the dog magazines and see if they would print a letter - my tips would be:

If you see horses when out walking, call your dog to heel and put the lead on if necessary.

Try to keep walking past, leaving a wide gap between yourself and the horse. If the path is too narrow for this, try to move to one side if you can and ask your dog to sit until the horse is past. Work on a 'focus' or 'watch me' command to ensure that you have your dogs attention.

Keep yourself between the horse and your dog.

Never let your dog sniff loose horses - they can react suddenly and unpredictably.

Familiarise your dog with horses, for instance by visiting local shows or local horse sanctuaries (check dogs are welcome first).

Any other tips?
 
Spudlet said:
So, I was thinking I might write to one of the dog magazines and see if they would print a letter - my tips would be:

Try to keep walking past, leaving a wide gap between yourself and the horse. **If the path is too narrow for this, try to move to one side if you can** and ask your dog to sit until the horse is past. Work on a 'focus' or 'watch me' command to ensure that you have your dogs attention.
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could I add to this *If the path is too narrow for this try to move to one side but within view of the horse* or something worded similarly?

On narrow paths, alot of walkers see a horse rider and duck into the hedges or trees, thinking (quite rightly) that they were doing the right thing by getting out of sight. However the majority of the time it makes horses worse, as they know something is hiding in the bushes but they can't identify whether it is a danger or not.

Also asking dog walkers to greet the riders or call out, or to respond if the rider greets them - something as mundane as 'Hello' to 'What lovely weather it is today'. I find that horses instantly recognise that the obstacle is human, and makes them less spooky, as well as simply exchanging pleasantries showing that horse riders are not stuck up snobby types and blahblahblah! :)

I read this thread with interest as i had a slightly scary incident out on a hack yesterday - two black labs came hurtling up the bridleway towards us looking quite menacing, no owners in sight. We stopped and stood stock still, dogs stopped about 50yrds away barking, and we decided as we couldnt see the owners anywhere we'd rather turn around and go a different way. I find it quite difficult to read dog's behaviour, so i'd rather air on the side of caution than get into a bad situation.
 
Good point about people hiding, I have narrowly avoided being wrapped round a tree after a lovely man moved out of view - he was clearly trying to help, but daft horse didn't get it!:rolleyes: Also about speaking to the horse / rider.:)

Re dog behaviour - most dogs will not actually face a horse down, they tend to realise they are somewhat outweighed if you head for them and get out of the way. However this of course depends on having a horse willing to do this. Since they stayed a distance away from you, I would think they would have moved, but it's best to err on the side of caution if you are unsure, of course. If you do decide to turn back, always stay at a walk (trotting or cantering might encourage the dogs to chase) - remember dogs have amazing stamina so it can be hard to outrun them.

I am also adding - if horses are loose in a field, always walk around the front of them. Never walk around the back of any horse - to my list of top tips.
 
Spudlet said:
So, I was thinking I might write to one of the dog magazines and see if they would print a letter - my tips would be:

If you see horses when out walking, call your dog to heel and put the lead on if necessary.

Try to keep walking past, leaving a wide gap between yourself and the horse. If the path is too narrow for this, try to move to one side if you can and ask your dog to sit until the horse is past. Work on a 'focus' or 'watch me' command to ensure that you have your dogs attention.

Keep yourself between the horse and your dog.

Never let your dog sniff loose horses - they can react suddenly and unpredictably.

Familiarise your dog with horses, for instance by visiting local shows or local horse sanctuaries (check dogs are welcome first).

Any other tips?
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I think writing to a dog magazine is a great idea and I agree with a lot of what you've said, it's great advice. However, I do think some dog owners would maybe take offence to parts of it. For example, they could argue that as the minority, us horse owners should be the ones familiarising our horses with dogs so that they do not panic and kick, rather than the other way around. I appreciate that some dogs try to attack horses, yes, but just the same way that some horses try to kick dogs.

I just can't envision that many dog owners going out of their way to visit a horse show just in case they encounter a rider whose horse doesn't like dogs. Do you see what I mean? :)

PS. I don't tend to encounter that many dog walkers out hacking and have fortunately never been chased (and am lucky that my horse appears not to be phased by dogs) so maybe dog owners in another place would be different. Not sure!
 
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I do see what you mean, and I will be working on the wording to make it a bit less directive:)

I would say generally that taking your dog to new places is part of being a good owner - socialisation should be a lifelong process, and should include meeting other animals as well as other dogs, going to crowded places like markets, town centres etc, so that your dog is happy and confident in all circumstances. Also, for many dog walkers a horse is the animal they are most likely to meet so it does make sense to introduce the concept to them.

Riders should also introduce their horses to dogs of course, and I firmly believe that riders should seek out opportunities to do this safely. Maybe it should be included in one of the exams people can take - how to pass dogs and other hazards you might meet on a public right of way safely. None of live in a bubble, so it makes sense to be prepared for things that you are likely to meet rather than hoping for the best:)
 
Regarding accustoming horses to dogs: My pony is pretty good with non-aggressive dogs, even if they are noisy. Even when we encountered someone walking NINE (9!!) dogs, he was fine. But he has turned and run away when an off-lead dog snapped at his hind legs, and I really don't blame him. I don't see how I can accustom him to being bitten in the legs by a misbehaving predator genetically indistinguishable from a wolf, and I don't think I should have to! After a few episodes of being chased, I find I'm more nervous when we encounter dogs than the pony is...
 
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