How well can you recognise lameness? - Research Survey

[SaddlePsych'D]

Edit: BEWARE SPOILERS IN THREAD! Complete survey before reading all thread replies


I'm not associated with this in any way. It just came up on my Facebook feed and I thought it was interesting. Didn't take too long to complete - involves watching six very short clips of horses being trotted up and answering a handful of questions about each. Then a handful of questions about lameness generally.

https://q85bzek6b5v.typeform.com/to/kvXX1BM4

Not sure whether to be pleased I got more right than I thought I would or worried about the ones I got wrong - mainly the one I thought was sound but wasn't!

 

[ycbm]

Really good survey. Enjoyed that.
.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Interesting and slightly educational. Would have been good to know the specific indicators they used to determine lameness in each case.

 

[I'm Dun]

The first one is a horse being trotted away from the camera, you cant see anything to make a judgement call on workor calling a vet. Are they all like that?

edited to add, no they arent, the following ones are much better

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

No, some trot up and back, and some on a circle

 

[ycbm]

The first one is a horse being trotted away from the camera, you cant see anything to make a judgement call. Are they all like that?

Spoiler

The right hip is dropping,

I thought it was pretty clearly lame but yes they are pretty much all that subtle but not all the same angle.

I'm not sure I agree that the sound one/s is/are sound
.

 

[scats]

I really enjoyed that and I got them all right! There was one that I doubted myself, but I decided to go with my initial thought.

I even got the sound one right!

I think my many (many) years taking lame horses to Leahurst and learning as much as I can from the vets there has paid off

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Done I got one leg wrong on 2 of the horses but one was done in error as I clicked on the wrong answer

 

[MurphysMinder]

Spoiler

The right hip is dropping,

I thought it was pretty clearly lame but yes they are pretty much all that subtle but not all the same angle.

I'm not sure I agree that the sound one/s is/are sound
.

I thought the sound one was moving short in front

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

The first one is a horse being trotted away from the camera, you cant see anything to make a judgement call on workor calling a vet. Are they all like that?

edited to add, no they arent, the following ones are much better

I felt that I would have liked to see each animal from different angles before expressing an opinion

 

[SEL]

Well I can spot hind end lameness but which leg isn't always 100% - which is entirely accurate in practice too.

Others were ok.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I was right on all the lames one being lame but only got one leg right. The sound one looked sound but unhappy. Found it hard to judge what leg looking at videos, easier when you can see them for real.

 

[millikins]

I was right on all the lames one being lame but only got one leg right. The sound one looked sound but unhappy. Found it hard to judge what leg looking at videos, easier when you can see them for real.

Very honest. I too got all the lame ones but bilateral front I said was single limb and single was bilateral. I found there was an element of self doubt in that "this is a quiz, we've had L fore so this is going to be hind/bilateral etc". I'm happy that as an amateur I can basically tell if they're lame, if no better after a day or so to rule out stone bruise etc. I'd ask a vet which is the main thing surely?

 

[Lady Jane]

Got them all right but re fore & hind but not all correct on which hind - I do struggle with that.
If I stare at any horse long enough I can end up deciding its lame!

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I did recognise the lames ones as lame which is reassuring. As above maybe that is to do with many years of staring at Ginny, then Max, then Amber then Lottie! I was only doubtful of the sound one wondering if I was missing something subtle. But then thought 'would I think twice about the movement if this was actually my horse' and the answer was no. I got fore and hind correct but occasionally muddled L&R up on the front. And also could not tell when it was bilateral, but just guessed at one of the fores for that one. Id' be interested in seeing the results.

 

[teacups]

After reading this thread I knew of a couple of outcomes, so started second guessing.

Hope that doesn’t affect the research element too much?

Perhaps people should edit their posts to simply ‘got 4 right, two wrong’…

I found it really educational!

ETA one of the ones where I was wrong was because I was second guessing a potential outcome, and in general I learnt how difficult it can be to correctly spot the correct diagnosis.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

After reading this thread I knew of a couple of outcomes, so started second guessing. Hope that doesn’t affect the research element too much? Perhaps people should edit their posts to simply ‘got 4 right, two wrong’…

I found it really educational!

Good Point. Maybe @SaddlePsych'D coul edit her first post saying DO QUIZ BEFORE READING THREAD!

 

[ycbm]

Spoiler: sound?

the"sound" one takes an obvious misstep on the turn which, together with the lack of forelimb stretch in its paces, would make me very suspicious that if you blocked one front foot you would find it was bilaterally lame in front.

 

[SEL]

When I did my biomechanics stuff for my massage diploma it was very much a case of don't worry too much if you get the wrong leg because if it looks lame / NQR then it needs a vet referral not a massage.

My Appy had 4 vets playing guess the lame leg on a trot up. Nerve blocks showed left hind / right fore so it's hard even for the professionals!

 

[Glitter's fun]

Who is doing it? What will the results be used for?

I wonder if they will get more people who know what they're doing responding to this (or who think they know). I haven't done it because I know I'm rubbish and don't want to feel bad today! I work on a basis of "Something's NQR there - ask someone who's good at this" and that's always worked fine for me in the real world but I do wonder if self-selection will skew the survey.

 

[dapple_grey]

if it looks lame / NQR then it needs a vet referral not a massage.

Wish I could print this off and pin it up on some livery yards! I know too many NQR/lame horses being 'treated' and they have no intention of referring them to a vet and likely never will

 

[teacups]

Who is doing it? What will the results be used for?

I wonder if they will get more people who know what they're doing responding to this (or who think they know). I haven't done it because I know I'm rubbish and don't want to feel bad today! I work on a basis of "Something's NQR there - ask someone who's good at this" and that's always worked fine for me in the real world but I do wonder if self-selection will skew the survey.

It's anonymous, university based, and you don't have to mention here whether you've done it or not...also they are short clips and you can watch them as many times as you want. You see things on the second or third time which you didn't the first.

I nearly didn't take part because I assumed I would be rubbish, but actually did better than I thought. Apart from anything else it was really educational as you are given the correct 'answer', and can then go back and watch again.

 

[scats]

I don’t know about anyone else but I try to make a judgement pretty quickly, because the more I look, the more I second guess.
I’ve worked out that I’ve got a pretty good eye for it, but my brain can try and convince me otherwise if I start over analysing.

I’m sort of the same when I’m riding. In the saddle I can feel when a horse is not connected or through, or even the tiniest bit crooked, but I have to trust myself to make the correction needed almost an autopilot through feel, because if I overthink it, I’ll then struggle to correct it.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I got all 5 but only 4 of the legs - I bilateral in front one I put one front leg and one behind.
I have too much experience with spotting lameness so it's a bittersweet achievement to have gotten them right.
I pur reduced workload on the 'sound' one as to me it looked stiff, but not lame for the purposes of this survey.

 

[Alibear]

Yep, I'm still rubbish, I can tell some things off but as for where/which leg? No idea that's why I call the vet.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Good Point. Maybe @SaddlePsych'D coul edit her first post saying DO QUIZ BEFORE READING THREAD!

Done

Who is doing it? What will the results be used for?

I wonder if they will get more people who know what they're doing responding to this (or who think they know). I haven't done it because I know I'm rubbish and don't want to feel bad today! I work on a basis of "Something's NQR there - ask someone who's good at this" and that's always worked fine for me in the real world but I do wonder if self-selection will skew the survey.

I definitely didn't do it thinking I know what I'm doing when it comes to lameness. They break each one down into different questions (is it lame, if yes which leg/s etc.) and one is how confident you are in the answer you gave. They also ask whether you would call a vet or ride each horse based on what you see, and what you think are the most common lameness indicators. I've no idea on those really but it was an interesting quiz to do.

 

[millikins]

The one with no sound was much harder, I tend to hear if they're lame/NQR which is probably why I wasn't very good at spotting which leg or legs were wrong.

 

[Glitter's fun]

It's anonymous, university based, and you don't have to mention here whether you've done it or not...also they are short clips and you can watch them as many times as you want. You see things on the second or third time which you didn't the first.

I nearly didn't take part because I assumed I would be rubbish, but actually did better than I thought. Apart from anything else it was really educational as you are given the correct 'answer', and can then go back and watch again.

ooooo not anything like as bad as i thought, but my "how confident were you" scores were all 1


Spoiler alert
I got 2 things wrong- thought one of the forelimb lamenesses was also lame behind because of the tail carriage; missed the bilateral one- thought it was just one of them - dim of me- can see it now! Very relieved that the one I said - "sound, put it in full work" wasn't in a bad way!
I had absolutely no idea which were the 3 commonest signs - just wanted to say all of them. Wish they'd said which they thought.

 

[IrishMilo]

I got them all right, including which legs, minus the TB on a circle where I missed bilateral lameness. (I put right fore only). A tip my vet caught me is to look at the kips and pelvis rather than the legs and it does help.

 

[Glitter's fun]

Have I imagined this, or did there used to be a thread where you could put up your own videos (or ones already shared publicly) for other people to comment on?