how would you handle this? Exuberant ben!

Queenbee

Queenbee

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Ben has become quite the enthusiast when out cantering, out on his own or up front he is perfect, nice and forward, a little difficult to stop but not too bad (I am working on this and we are getting better). Now, in company and behind another horse, he turns a little bit posessed:rolleyes: trying to go faster and faster:eek:, If I wont let him (which I wont) he tosses his head verticle (like stupidly so) and leaps forward, I simply cant sit deep in the saddle when he does this and he picks up the pace... this continues over and over and over again:mad::mad::mad:, now he stops ok, the first horse stops, he stops, and all is good in the world plus seriously looks like the cat who has got the cream:rolleyes: but its naughty, rude, uncomfortable, I lose all contact, he hollows and flattens and feels awful and I simply have no control over his speed, I can at times get him to drop his head and bring his back up by dropping the contact and squeezing with my calf muscles, but the second that I then ask for him to check his speed even slightly... he chucks his head up and leaps forward again:mad:

There is no pain, he is regularly checked and is completely relaxed throughout his body, his saddle is a good and comfortable fit too... its not a pain issue at all, his ears are forwards and you can positively see demon horns growing from his skull... its simply him enjoying himself a bit too much! Its come on the last 2-3 weeks and i believe his confidence is growing as you can see great changes in his way of going recently, much more forward and core strength, but obviously this is not a change I want to encourage!

Anyhow, I dont want to stop cantering behind another horse, I want to nip this behaviour in the bud and get some control back, I want him to learn that it is not acceptable and that he cant win (currently he is winning!)

Now, in other aspects he is fine, his canter in the school is great, his canter on the lunge responsive and calm, and a good, responsive and steady canter on lone hacks, so its not like I can fix it somewhere else and then transfer it. He is fine behind other horses on hacks in walk and trot, just canter, we have tried new canter paths (he responds the same) He doesnt rush to take off, only rushes once he is in canter, you could stand him still at the bottom of the track and he wouldnt bat an eyelid!

Now I have a few possible ideas on which angle to use to tackle this, but Id really like to hear other peoples thoughts.

Currently he is ridden in a double jointed loose ring snaffle with a lozenge, plain bridle and saddle... no other bumph on him.

He is generally a good boy, and this canter issue is pretty much the only time the little sod ignores my physical or voice commands:rolleyes:
 
Is it the other horse cantering in front of him that sets him off, or the fact that he is cantering behind another horse - as in, would he consent to trot behind another horse cantering or would he canter nicely behind a horse that is trotting?
 
What is he like if he walks behind or trots behind?

Difficult to guess without seeing but if it's just being behind then I might practice a lot at lower speed so he's happy if the horse in front trots off or even if you go out with another horse and then go separate ways at a junction in walk - all to get his confidence/ patients up in being behind / left behind at a slow speed that's easier to control/ ignore the head shaking.

I'd also give standing still on hacks a go - normally IMHO, goes hand in hand with not wanting to go behind !!

Once he's happily letting others go ahead in trot, then increase the speed to canter.
 
TuscanBunnyGirl said:
Could try a martingale?..might just stop the head tossing a wee bit?

Hope you are both well...and I hope his devils horns are cute ;) wouldn't want to spoil that angelic façade ;)
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I am considering that, however, I dont think a running would do a jot of difference so it would have to be a standing... as a result I am understandably hesitant to do so, if i do decide to, it would only be a short term measure to stop him evading and shoving his head in my face (and I can express how flipping high he shoves it... I would swear the little git bends it backwards too!)

We are very well thank you, and he is loving life :D
 
I'm with the martingale folk. He's not a delicate little boy and if that neck/head biffs you in the nose you'll be worse off.

I am sure people will say more schooling blah blah blah, but if it's putting you in danger and is a short term solution it's defo worth a try in my book. I'd start with a running and then fix if no better.
 
I would absolutely stick a standing martingale on him, for the sake of your nose! If its correctly fitted, it will only come into play when his head is dangerously high - so I really don't see a problem in doing so. Yes, you need to work on the actual issue, and I'm sure you're on it, but you need to be safe in the interim
 
DabDab said:
Is it the other horse cantering in front of him that sets him off, or the fact that he is cantering behind another horse - as in, would he consent to trot behind another horse cantering or would he canter nicely behind a horse that is trotting?
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I think its the cantering behind another horse tbh, although I do think he would get a bit mardy with trot, I believe I could maintain a trot, but if I was cantering behind a horse trotting, I still think he would turn silly, if we break into canter before the horse infront he starts throwing a hissy fit pretty much straight away:rolleyes:

Polos Mum said:
What is he like if he walks behind or trots behind?

Difficult to guess without seeing but if it's just being behind then I might practice a lot at lower speed so he's happy if the horse in front trots off or even if you go out with another horse and then go separate ways at a junction in walk - all to get his confidence/ patients up in being behind / left behind at a slow speed that's easier to control/ ignore the head shaking.

I'd also give standing still on hacks a go - normally IMHO, goes hand in hand with not wanting to go behind !!

Once he's happily letting others go ahead in trot, then increase the speed to canter.
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We do lots of standing on our hacks, Its something I have always practiced with him on lone hacks and the other horse is the same age as him and we do this together, If he sees another horse on a hack (lone hack) he will do a couple of 'alert steps' as he clocks this horse then will relax down and continue on past them, he will also ride away from other horses, I have another friend who we hack to, ride out with then have to split from part way back as we are at different yards... this doesnt cause a problem at all. Hes a good boy letting others trot in front and never has an issue with this, infact one exercise we do with some of the girls who have shorter strides, is we start trotting then come back to walk or even halt and let them continue trotting, then break back into trot to 'catch up' which is steady and controlled, once we catch back up we come back to walk or halt and repeat... all is good there and he remains calm. He really doesnt have a problem at all when a horse leaves, trots off, walks off, or when he is stopped/slowed/ turned away in walk and trot... it is simply the cantering behind a horse that is the issue. Confidence wise, he is pretty damned confident, but has become more so (to the point where he is confident enough to play around in canter) it is since he really started to become comfortable with canter and enjoy it, that he has developed this firecracker attitude behind another horse (me no likey)

He is an incredibly confident wee man, he canters on new canter paths first time, is nice and steady at every other time. Its definately a case of him getting too excited and over playful.
 
Why are you 'hesitant' about using a standing martingale? Get one with an elasticated insert & fit it on the loose side to begin with. Remember a standing works on the front of the face rather than by exerting a downwards pressure on the corners of the mouth so for youngsters who are just getting a bit OTT can be a lot kinder. Have a look in H+H mag any week during the hunting season, or at a BS show & you'll see horses jumping huge hedges / fences wearing them so don't worry either about them being too restrictive. Correctly fitted they're a very useful tool indeed.
 
Another vote for the standing martingale. A bit of kit with a bad reputation it doesn't deserve.

I might couple it with a boucher to put in a slight poll pressure and encourage him to drop into a contact rather than flatten out and poke his head up.
 
Queenbee said:
I think its the cantering behind another horse tbh, although I do think he would get a bit mardy with trot, I believe I could maintain a trot, but if I was cantering behind a horse trotting, I still think he would turn silly, if we break into canter before the horse infront he starts throwing a hissy fit pretty much straight away:rolleyes:
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So it's less of a worried about being left alone thing and more about a canter = 'I want to be in front' thing. If that's the case I would just contain it as best I can until he gets over it a little, and use a martingale if I thought it would help with this. He sounds like a right character :cool:
 
Mine also likes to be in front but if she acted like Ben when behind she would be STRAIGHT into a standing martingale. It's not forever, it's just to enforce the no head tossing rule.
 
Nicnac said:
I'm with the martingale folk. He's not a delicate little boy and if that neck/head biffs you in the nose you'll be worse off.

I am sure people will say more schooling blah blah blah, but if it's putting you in danger and is a short term solution it's defo worth a try in my book. I'd start with a running and then fix if no better.
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Auslander said:
I would absolutely stick a standing martingale on him, for the sake of your nose! If its correctly fitted, it will only come into play when his head is dangerously high - so I really don't see a problem in doing so. Yes, you need to work on the actual issue, and I'm sure you're on it, but you need to be safe in the interim
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Zebedee said:
Why are you 'hesitant' about using a standing martingale? Get one with an elasticated insert & fit it on the loose side to begin with. Remember a standing works on the front of the face rather than by exerting a downwards pressure on the corners of the mouth so for youngsters who are just getting a bit OTT can be a lot kinder. Have a look in H+H mag any week during the hunting season, or at a BS show & you'll see horses jumping huge hedges / fences wearing them so don't worry either about them being too restrictive. Correctly fitted they're a very useful tool indeed.
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pennyturner said:
Another vote for the standing martingale. A bit of kit with a bad reputation it doesn't deserve.

I might couple it with a boucher to put in a slight poll pressure and encourage him to drop into a contact rather than flatten out and poke his head up.
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OK, hoiking my Martingale out today :( You are all right ofcourse:rolleyes: and i am more hesitant I suppose because of other people and what they may say (not like me:o) and I do agree, I prefer the action of a standing (never really found a horse that behaves better in a running, I suppose I wanted to just dip my toe in the water on here to see if anyone had any other ideas, my only other idea would have been to ride with two reins, although Im loathed to start hacking him consistently in something like a pelham when he is absolutely fine, and I still think he would try and evade that. I personally think that If he cant do it, he will forget about it pretty quickly (hes like that!) I just dont want it becoming an ingrained behaviour
 
DabDab said:
So it's less of a worried about being left alone thing and more about a canter = 'I want to be in front' thing. If that's the case I would just contain it as best I can until he gets over it a little, and use a martingale if I thought it would help with this. He sounds like a right character :cool:
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Oh he sure is!:D Everytime he behaves like this I keep thinking OMG what am I going to do when I hunt him?!!!

9tails said:
Mine also likes to be in front but if she acted like Ben when behind she would be STRAIGHT into a standing martingale. It's not forever, it's just to enforce the no head tossing rule.
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Well, its been about six hacks now... and yesterday was just the worst... so I agree, Ive definitely got to use some tough love now!:D
 
Pretty usual behaviour - especially for a youngish horse. It all becomes a little bit wehey!!

Stick a standing martingale on him, and vary how you work with him in company.

So behind, side by side, in front - overtake, allow him to be overtaken etc.
 
I stuck a standing martingale on my youngster when he tried running off with me a couple of times with his head in the air when he got overexcited. He only had it on for a short while and never had to use it again and he has never shuved his head in the air and run off since.
 
I feel your pain QB! My mum's Cob X Arab is a menace when cantering on hacks, head tossing, plunging etc etc all because the little madam wants to be in front and prefereably galloping hell for leather everywhere her trot is civilised and she will stand when asked too :rolleyes: on the plus side it's good practice for deepening your seat ;)

After reading this thread I might suggest to mum that a standing martingale might help for hacks since like Ben she is a gem in the school, it's just out hacking she does this.
 
Another one who briefly used a standing on a youngster....arab who used to resemble a giraffe on occasion.....when he nearly clonked my nose I thought it time to try one. He hated a running as it interfered with his mouth and he doesnt like poll pressure either. He still prefers to be in front and will canter like a rocking horse if he has to go behind, even at trot. Hes brilliant at solo hacking or leading the way.... I guess I dont hack out in company enough
 
Goldenstar said:
Another standing fan here they are a greatly undervalued piece of tack when young horses are at this stage.
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Luckilly I got a nice breastplate with martingale attachement earlier last year, I decided to go for a really decent one so I could use it for hunting... finally it comes into its own! :D

amymay said:
Pretty usual behaviour - especially for a youngish horse. It all becomes a little bit wehey!!

Stick a standing martingale on him, and vary how you work with him in company.

So behind, side by side, in front - overtake, allow him to be overtaken etc.
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Luckilly, with both horses being a similar age although ben is about 9 months ahead in work, we try to vary as much as possible for that very reason, both horses are required to lead on a canter, one leads over the granite bridge one day another another day, we try to add some new ground most days... and wherever possible ride side by side... I think some of it may be this particular horse, the others have been different to ride with... ben seems to find his company more 'fun':rolleyes:

yes, AM spot on, very much a bit weyhey

Liane said:
I stuck a standing martingale on my youngster when he tried running off with me a couple of times with his head in the air when he got overexcited. He only had it on for a short while and never had to use it again and he has never shuved his head in the air and run off since.
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Yes I envisage that this should only be something I have to use for a short time, he is the type of horse who would forget he had an issue very quickly.

sandi_84 said:
I feel your pain QB! My mum's Cob X Arab is a menace when cantering on hacks, head tossing, plunging etc etc all because the little madam wants to be in front and prefereably galloping hell for leather everywhere her trot is civilised and she will stand when asked too :rolleyes: on the plus side it's good practice for deepening your seat ;)

After reading this thread I might suggest to mum that a standing martingale might help for hacks since like Ben she is a gem in the school, it's just out hacking she does this.
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Yep, I think the worst thing is the stargazing isnt so much an issue, with past horses I have been used to it, both pickles and ebony were established emus when I bought them and I worked to rectify this, although they were consistent, in trot and canter and it was not the same reasons behind the behaviour for them, I would be reluctant to use DR (which was part of my toolkit for ebony and pickles) on ben at this age, in canter out hacking along a bridlepath:eek::eek::eek: And I absolutely will not allow this to become a consistent behaviour, rather than a fleeting issue.
 
I would absolutely not hesitate to use a standing martingale on the rude little begger!!
Furthermore, I wouldn't rule out draw reins if you need even more say in the matter!!

Short term, I'd try and engineer the situation so that you are cantering uphill in a relatively enclose environment and behind a horse that trots big/fast - ask the lead horse to trot off at a fair clip and then school yours in canter behind.
 
ihatework said:
I would absolutely not hesitate to use a standing martingale on the rude little begger!!
Furthermore, I wouldn't rule out draw reins if you need even more say in the matter!!

Short term, I'd try and engineer the situation so that you are cantering uphill in a relatively enclose environment and behind a horse that trots big/fast - ask the lead horse to trot off at a fair clip and then school yours in canter behind.
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Thank you :D I wouldn't rule out DR if needed at a later date, its just that the bridleways are pretty overgrown in areas and I would worry about possibly snagging up on branches... Although I've never had a problem in the past hacking in them I suppose I spot danger more readily nowadays! The standing is out and ready and going on tomorrow (no riding today... I had a BBQ to go to instead). I do try to canter inclines wherever possible, so there are a couple of really nice paths I know of that fit the bill, thank you everyone :D
 
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