How would you judge a foreign breeds class?

Orangehorse

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Hypothetical musings, but there is a local show and I was wondering if I might sponsor a foreign breeds class, but how would it be judged, how can you separate a quarter horse from a spanish horse, an icelandic from a crillo or a Morgan.

Is it
a. the "best horse" in the eyes of say, an English hunter judge, which would mean conformation and paces
b. the best example of the breed in front of you, but that would require some knowledge of the breed standard, or
c. the horse you like best, but that might not be a good example of that breed. You might love the multi-coloured mane of the Fijord which is presented beautifully, but the Spanish horse might have better conformation and the Morgan might have the most spectacular paces and way of going.

Suggestions please.
 

The Fuzzy Furry

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I would opt for option B, and make sure I mugged up enough to know if a criollo was a better specimen of its breed than say an Icelandic was.
There are plenty of breed specifics, differences in way of going and movement, but I'd still expect then to walk and trot up level and straight.

Hope you enjoy the hypothetical judging 😉
 

tallyho!

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Hopefully there’s more than one of each breed there to help with the comparison but yes I’d expect a judge of the class to have a bit of knowledge.. a decent “horse breeds of the world” encyclopaedia ought to help.
 

asmp

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Entered one of those years ago for a bit of fun. Wished I hadn't bothered as it was full of Arabs (in hand class) who were all wound up by their handlers outside the ring before going in!
 

Orangehorse

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Ah, had forgotten the Arabs. I suppose if there was no specific class for them, they would all enter the foreign breeds.
 

ester

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yes that very much depends on the schedule, we never actually had many arabs locally that would do unaff.

I would opt for 2, but it's even trickier if part breds are included and you are trying to guess what :D
 

The Fuzzy Furry

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yes that very much depends on the schedule, we never actually had many arabs locally that would do unaff.

I would opt for 2, but it's even trickier if part breds are included and you are trying to guess what :D
Try judging a native class for registered and unregistered.... anything slightly hairy will be there!
I once asked a show to split the class as over 20 were forward, they wouldn't, turned out after I checked with each, that there were 5 registered ponies, 4 part breds, 2 claimed to be unregistered and the rest thought they might be..... 😂
 

ester

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true, I have stewarded and the judge to ermm what do you think that is or they think it is ;).
 

Nicnac

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With a phrase book?

At a local show probably b). The Kerry Bog Pony is now officially a foreign breed as the Republic of Ireland is a foreign country! I may enter my Irish TB and Irish ID into a foreign breeds class ;)
 

conniegirl

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Option B is how it should be judged but you cannot expect a judge to know about your breed if it is very obscure.
Most will have an idea of what to look at for the common foreign breeds (spanish breeds, arabs, quarter horses, morgans, fjords etc) but if it is very rare then I'd just have to judge on is it sound, does it move straight etc.
 

Keith_Beef

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I would expect the horse to be judged on conformation to the breed standard. Isn't that how a Dachshund and a Standard Poodle compete against each other for best in show at Crufts?

Or, alternatively, get each horse to do what no single breed excels at. Card tricks, for example, or singing an aria from La Traviata
 
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if it is very rare then I'd just have to judge on is it sound, does it move straight etc.
Unless it's a Paso as they don't move straight and that is correct for the breed. I think it's called 'termino'.
 

Follysmum

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My experience when I did this with my Arab was awful! Judge made me wait till last then commented that she couldn’t possibly judge him against the others as Arabs float !

I had my entry money returned. Hopefully these days they have judges that know what they are looking at.
 

Alibear

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I really don't expect a judge to know all the breed characteristics there's too many (from the top of my head Friesian, Lusitano, PRE, Fjord, Quarter Horse, Paint, Icelandic, Haflinger, Caspian, Morgan, Saddlebred, Mustang, Dakota, Percheron, Paso Fino, Lipizaner ). So I think this tends to be the horse that looks well put together, moves in a way the judge likes and is the judges choice.
I've shown PREs in a foreign breeds class where the judge asked "yes but what do you do with them". Needles to say we didn't place :D Quarter Horses perhaps unsurpsingly we sometimes get " I just don't like the way they move".

I still think they're a fun class to do, you get to show off your more unusual horses :) The individual shows also tend to vary a lot as people show off the bits their breed excels at.
 

mcnaughty

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Just the same as when you judge a mixed breed M&M class - you judge firstly on ride, then conformation and if you know anything about each breed you could use that information too.

Definitely not on who has the prettiest mane .... Fjord pony!
 

paddy555

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Unless it's a Paso as they don't move straight and that is correct for the breed. I think it's called 'termino'.
yes correct to a point (and it is Termino) however that is only a Peruvian Paso, the judge could also be confronted by a Paso Fino with totally different gaits. This will be a very knowledgeable judge by the end of it. :D
Perhaps the answer is to find out what sorts of foreign breeds are in OP's area and also find out from an established foreign breeds judge what they look for. I seem to remember years ago there was a show for American foreign breeds, no idea if it is still going. If you had American foreign breeds that would get rid of Arabs who don't really fit in and many of the American breeds (north and south) come from Spanish origin so it may be easier to compare Mustangs, Morgans, Criollos and QHs, which only leaves the gaited Pasos and there may well not be any.
 

Pinkvboots

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Why don't Arabs fit into a foreign breed class? And sometimes at smaller shows it is literally the only class an Arab can do so do away with it and we would have nothing.

A lot of the Paso and saddlebred shows have open classes which Arabs can enter so they obviously feel Arabs have a place
 

paddy555

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Why don't Arabs fit into a foreign breed class? And sometimes at smaller shows it is literally the only class an Arab can do so do away with it and we would have nothing.

A lot of the Paso and saddlebred shows have open classes which Arabs can enter so they obviously feel Arabs have a place
I don't feel arabs don't have a place I just think it would be easier to judge without them. At the same time I had Peruvians and Arabs. It would have been almost impossible to compare them. Both were good examples of their breed but so far removed from each other in every way. Same with comparing an Icey and an arab. I just thought with American breed classes they may have a more common denominator. (and sorry I forgot the saddlebreds)

ps, nothing against arabs, we have had have several :D
 

Pinkvboots

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I have done loads of foreign breed classes and most of the time I am in with warmbloods had the odd haffy friesian and Spanish, I also did a rare breeds class once and there was a woman riding a Clydesdale and the ring was quite small and he literally thundered round looking out of control my little horse was quite spooked by it I don't think we have ever been in a ring with such a huge horse.

I find with these classes it massively comes down to what type the judge prefers, some judges love Arabs some just really don't there never seems to be any middle ground.
 

Pinkvboots

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I don't feel arabs don't have a place I just think it would be easier to judge without them. At the same time I had Peruvians and Arabs. It would have been almost impossible to compare them. Both were good examples of their breed but so far removed from each other in every way. Same with comparing an Icey and an arab. I just thought with American breed classes they may have a more common denominator. (and sorry I forgot the saddlebreds)

ps, nothing against arabs, we have had have several :D
Fair enough I see your point we just have a real lack of classes unless you do AHS shows, I can do veteran with one of mine now which is a bit of a bonus!
 

conniegirl

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yes correct to a point (and it is Termino) however that is only a Peruvian Paso, the judge could also be confronted by a Paso Fino with totally different gaits. This will be a very knowledgeable judge by the end of it. :D
Perhaps the answer is to find out what sorts of foreign breeds are in OP's area and also find out from an established foreign breeds judge what they look for. I seem to remember years ago there was a show for American foreign breeds, no idea if it is still going. If you had American foreign breeds that would get rid of Arabs who don't really fit in and many of the American breeds (north and south) come from Spanish origin so it may be easier to compare Mustangs, Morgans, Criollos and QHs, which only leaves the gaited Pasos and there may well not be any.
If you had an American breeds class round here then there might be 1 in it. Round here there are a lot of Spanish types, Quite a few haffies and a few arabs.
Think I've seen one standardbred doing the shows but it never does well because it constantly swaps between pacing and trotting and therefore just looks lame, think it would do better if it could do the long side of the school without swapping 4 or 5 times.
 

Alibear

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Times have chance since I was showing as Arabs used to have their own breed classes as most shows as they were popular. Hence they then didn't turn up in the Foreign Breeds as that was a catch all for anything that didn't have its own breed/part bred class. If there's no Arabs class then totally they should be in the Foreign breeds class.
 

The Fuzzy Furry

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Just the same as when you judge a mixed breed M&M class - you judge firstly on ride, then conformation and if you know anything about each breed you could use that information too.

Definitely not on who has the prettiest mane .... Fjord pony!
nope, mixed M&M ridden is 50% ride, 50% breed type and confirmation.
Nobody should bother judging natives if they don't know their breed standards or types.
 

humblepie

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I think at a local show it will probably be as others have said based on general conformation, movement etc but hopefully with an allowance that different breeds move differently etc. It may come down to simply what the judge likes since the judge will not know the breed standard or type for all breeds. It is a bit like mixed veteran classes when a judge is having to compare different types or even a supreme championship where you could have a lead rein pony, a Welsh Section D and a thoroughbred. I did a little bit of judging at local shows year ago and once got asked on the day to do the coloured class as the judge had not turned up. I must admit they were judged as a riding horse/riding pony class and I know I upset someone who had had a lot of success as I didn't place their horse but its forelegs weren't a pair in my eyes.
 

conniegirl

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nope, mixed M&M ridden is 50% ride, 50% breed type and confirmation.
Nobody should bother judging natives if they don't know their breed standards or types.
Definitely! I went to one show last year where the judge blatantly knew nothing at all about M&M's, he placed my Section C last in the M&M class below some truly shocking examples of other breeds. His reasoning when asked was that mine was "clearly Partbred arab". Erm no, he's a bred in the purple welsh section C who has been to and placed at HOYS 4 times and won at the RIHS, he is very clearly NOT a partbred of any description.
 

Orangehorse

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There are some very well supported American breeds and they usually have classes for other foreign breeds too. But these would be national shows, not the local one I am thinking off.

I guess it is the same as judging a veteran class. I did one in hand with my horse and I wondered how on earth the judge was going to choose between 11.00hh welsh pony and a 16.00 TB and all in between. I think in the end it was the order that she liked them the best!
 

Pinkvboots

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I find most judges at the smaller shows know nothing of certain breeds, I have been asked if my pure bred Arab was a part bred Arab before, he couldn't be more typically Arab in the way he looks.
 
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