How would you manage him?

[Leo Walker]

The cob has been moved and is now on a DIY yard near to where I live. The cob is fat Hes a phenomenally good doer and just did far to well at his last yard where he was on full livery. So now I am aiming to diet him. He will be worked as much as possible. I'm aiming for 6 days a week. He was in a similar level of work at the last yard and still gained weight!

He moved on Weds and he now has a stable which is in a 20m x 20m grass pen. There are slip rails which open up into about an acre of grazing. He has been in the grass pen with the stable door open 24/7. The limited grass that was in the pen is gone now, although I appreciate its going to grow. The acre of grass he has is the old winter field, so does have some grass, but very little. I have electric fence so can give him strips etc. Its a long narrow plot and his water is in the pen bit. He can go out into the summer grazing if I want him to, but its a big field thats used for sheep over the winter so is well fertilised and looks very green already.

So far hes been in the pen, and getting a slice of high fibre low calorie haylage morning and evening. His stable is bedded with straw and he can and does happily eat straw. Hes also getting a small feed of a handful of speedibeet with prohoof, salt and 50gms of linseed in it.

I have a relatively free rein on what I do within reason. So how would you manage him going forward?

 

[be positive]

I would set up the field so he has to move a maximum amount to get back to the stable/ water, so maybe a track around the edge but not all the way so he has to go back to the beginning to get out, I have two on about 2 acres, divided into 2 they move about a lot, once the grass really gets going I will make it longer and narrower so they have further to go to get back for water, into the shade, it really helps keep the weight off, far better than a tiny area and strip grazing where they tend to stay in one place and gorge, I move the fence but not daily and when I move it I try and make it so they have to move even more.

If he is really overweight 1 acre should be plenty to keep him all summer with a bit of forage if required

 

[JFTDWS]

I'd do a 3/4 edge strip as BP suggests, and probably ditch the haylage in favour of straw (which he has anyway) and ditch the linseed. I'd also consider only allowing him out of the pen overnight, if the grass comes through / he isn't losing it.

 

[Mongoose11]

Track round the edge, no haylage, no linseed. He'll do just fine with his straw bed.

If all else fails then sell him...to me

 

[Leo Walker]

He only gets 50gms of linseed as he is a horribly grimy scurfy creature and hes much worse without it. Its only a tiny bit but does seem to help him not be as bad. I say 50gms, but its a 50ml scoop so probably weighs less. Hes been getting the haylage as hes been predominantly stabled and I was a bit concerned about living off rich haylage at his last yard to suddenly being effectively out 24/7, although he ate whatever was in the pen in about 24 hours and started on the fencing!

The only problem with a track is that hes fenced in his grazing bit with electric and I cant fathom out a way to run a track round it but still allow him access from his pen through the slip rails. Its not the end of the world if its not possible, but it just means instead of the YO letting him out on a morning I'd have to go up before work and I'm on the train at 6.22 so I'd rather not if possible! I probably need to have a look tomorrow see if I can work something out.

M11 hes gone from the horse no one wants to having a waiting list of people who want him, and you'd have to prise him out of my cold dead hands now :lol:

 

[Christmas Crumpet]

Muzzle him whenever in the big field. I put one on my horse today which he was cross about but the grass is growing and he is a fat git of a cob!!!

 

[Leo Walker]

I was planning on muzzling him but the grass is so short. I'm very lucky to have been given the winter grazing that has been totally trashed. Most peoples nightmare, but my idea of perfection :lol: But I've got a Greenguard and a Shires on standby for when/if the grass comes through. I'm hoping I can wangle it so that the poor cob never has access to proper grass again.

My vague plan so far is to have him in the pen over night with straw and a ting bit of haylage so hes interested enough to pick through it, then out in the "proper field" the rest of the time. Not sure if its better to swap it for overnight out in the field, or in the pen more.

Its proper first world problems :lol: I suspect it probably doesnt really matter really either way as he will only ever have access to rough grazing. I'm just luxuriating in the various options, knowing that all of them are ok for him I have been very lucky to find somewhere like this, where my YO is happy to let me totally trash the grass. Every previous YO would have had a heart attack at the thought of letting him graze it bare!

 

[FfionWinnie]

Exercise him hard every day for at least an hour and give him hay. Daisy gets adlib hay and 2kgs alfalfa pellets and 2kgs coolstance copra on this exercise regime otherwise she would be too thin!

 

[irishdraft]

Soaked hay & lots of work

 

[ycbm]

To create the track, take a feed off the electric fence through a piece of hosepipe to cross the gap in the sliprails. Then you can create the inside fence of the track without an electric gate to have to open and close.

 

[LD&S]

An acre for a good doer is quite a lot in the summer,
I have a very good doer who is out 24/7, as soon as there is enough grass that's all she gets, can't see the point in feeding hay if it's not needed. Like you I can't use a grazing muzzle as the grass is too short and personally I don't like them, they might as well be in a head collar.
If you can't set up a track because of getting power all round can you do a long thin strip, if your boy eats straw he'll always have something to nibble on if he's eaten all the grass before you get a chance to move the fence a bit.

 

[LD&S]

To create the track, take a feed off the electric fence through a piece of hosepipe to cross the gap in the sliprails. Then you can create the inside fence of the track without an electric gate to have to open and close.

Never thought of that, great idea

 

[MagicMelon]

If it were mine I'd want to limit his grass right now since he's already fat and you are at an increased risk of laminitis. I would keep him where he is (in the pen and stable area) with hay which IMO is safer than grass. Once he is slim then I'd start strip grazing the bigger field.

 

[Leo Walker]

If it were mine I'd want to limit his grass right now since he's already fat and you are at an increased risk of laminitis. I would keep him where he is (in the pen and stable area) with hay which IMO is safer than grass. Once he is slim then I'd start strip grazing the bigger field.

Thats what I'm doing for now. He gets a tiny bit of the high fibre haylage at breakfast time when everything else gets fed, then a bigger portion at tea time. Hes also been snacking on his bed. There is literally nothing left in the pen now though, so I've been allowing him access to the "grazing" but I've sectioned it off so he only has a 20 x 20 section of the grazing as well.

I havent had chance today, but tomorrow I am going to see if I can set up a track round it. He is so frightened of the electric fencing that I'm not sure he would go through a gate sized gap in it, so it might be a no go!

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

The cob has been moved and is now on a DIY yard near to where I live. The cob is fat Hes a phenomenally good doer and just did far to well at his last yard where he was on full livery. So now I am aiming to diet him. He will be worked as much as possible. I'm aiming for 6 days a week. He was in a similar level of work at the last yard and still gained weight!

He moved on Weds and he now has a stable which is in a 20m x 20m grass pen. There are slip rails which open up into about an acre of grazing. He has been in the grass pen with the stable door open 24/7. The limited grass that was in the pen is gone now, although I appreciate its going to grow. The acre of grass he has is the old winter field, so does have some grass, but very little. I have electric fence so can give him strips etc. Its a long narrow plot and his water is in the pen bit. He can go out into the summer grazing if I want him to, but its a big field thats used for sheep over the winter so is well fertilised and looks very green already.

So far hes been in the pen, and getting a slice of high fibre low calorie haylage morning and evening. His stable is bedded with straw and he can and does happily eat straw. Hes also getting a small feed of a handful of speedibeet with prohoof, salt and 50gms of linseed in it.

I have a relatively free rein on what I do within reason. So how would you manage him going forward?

Firstly, is he at risk of lami?? Check his pulses make sure the hoof not warm, as if it is you could induce an attack in an already comprimised foot


I would not use haylage but hay soaked to get rid of some of the sugars etc. Next I would be careful going to mad with the exercise if he is not used to it, I would be inclined to do a lunge on one day and ride too. Not necessarily fast work as if he is that overweight then his breathing would be affected.

I would stick to walk and trot work till he loses some weight, things like pole work which is steady but good exercise to lose weight. Also if he is that overweight doing too much work could be detrimental to his joints along with muscles and tendon.

If you can get him to a water treadmill that is great exercise and puts less strain on the joints, if not what I posted above would be fine, maybe some hill work in walk to turn fat to muscle. I would drop the linseed and the speedy beet unless you can rinse it through with clean water before you add to get rid of the excess beet juice.

Personally I would change to shavings instead of straw, as I would be worried about the lami risk, and treat him as at risk till he lost some weight. Make him work if your hacking quietly down the road, short burst of active walk then gather him up.



Have a work regime either from your trainer or one you set up and have a time when you increase the length of time and what you do. Tweak it accordingly depending on how he is going/coping, good luck

 

[Equi]

I would be keeping him in the pen and getting soaked hay in a few v small holed nets spaced out in the paddock rather than haylage. Id also try to source something other than the linseed. Tried local before? I always found it gave a nice coat to mine. Get rid of the straw. Another thing i tend to do is rather than give a feed in a bucket, is to spread it out on the floor so they graze it. Ive sometimes pulled the hay and put hand fulls over the paddock so they are grazing it not just standing pulling it out of the net.

 

[Leo Walker]

Hes not currently doing any work as hes gotten so fat his saddle doesnt fit. My saddle fitter is out on Tuesday so I'm hoping she can work miracles and adjust it to fit. He is relatively fit though having been in a good level of work until this week.

He has no pulses and no signs of LGL but he is at the tipping point. I'm happy with him eating the straw. He cant have nothing, I want him to have access to forage 24/7 and straw is a good way of doing that without him piling weight on with ad lib hay. If I spread his "feed" out over the floor it wouldnt be noticeable :lol: he gets a handful, just enough to get him to eat his balancer and salt

I do feel a bit twitchy about the haylage, but soaking hay is a no go for me as I'm disabled and just couldnt physically cope with the weight of soaked hay. Its the haylage thats supposed to be ok for laminitics etc and is supposed to be lower calorie than hay. He gets about 3kgs a day in total. I'm going to go back to mixing it 40:60 with straw. That means he has to sift through the straw to get to the hay and slows him down eating wise

 

[Moomin1]

Can you not still lunge him until his saddle is sorted?

 

[JFTDWS]

I sympathise on the hay front as I can't be near the stuff (allergic - I like to be able to breathe!). I'm not clear on why you're giving the haylage at all though. It's the first thing I'd drop.

I'd also lunge until his saddle is sorted.

What exactly is the issue with the track system? It should be possible to work something out - e.g. using insulation as above.

 

[Zipzop]

The cob has been moved and is now on a DIY yard near to where I live. The cob is fat Hes a phenomenally good doer and just did far to well at his last yard where he was on full livery. So now I am aiming to diet him. He will be worked as much as possible. I'm aiming for 6 days a week. He was in a similar level of work at the last yard and still gained weight!

He moved on Weds and he now has a stable which is in a 20m x 20m grass pen. There are slip rails which open up into about an acre of grazing. He has been in the grass pen with the stable door open 24/7. The limited grass that was in the pen is gone now, although I appreciate its going to grow. The acre of grass he has is the old winter field, so does have some grass, but very little. I have electric fence so can give him strips etc. Its a long narrow plot and his water is in the pen bit. He can go out into the summer grazing if I want him to, but its a big field thats used for sheep over the winter so is well fertilised and looks very green already.

So far hes been in the pen, and getting a slice of high fibre low calorie haylage morning and evening. His stable is bedded with straw and he can and does happily eat straw. Hes also getting a small feed of a handful of speedibeet with prohoof, salt and 50gms of linseed in it.

I have a relatively free rein on what I do within reason. So how would you manage him going forward?

If he was mine I'd,
A) ditch the straw and give him a non edible bedding
B) keep him in the pen overnight with stable door open
C) soak hay to reduce sugars
D) out on extra paddock using track system in the day
E) get rid of all the hard feed
F) avoid the summer grazing like the plague

 

[Moomin1]

H

If he was mine I'd,
A) ditch the straw and give him a non edible bedding
B) keep him in the pen overnight with stable door open
C) soak hay to reduce sugars
D) out on extra paddock using track system in the day
E) get rid of all the hard feed
F) avoid the summer grazing like the plague

Op has already said she can't give hay

 

[Zipzop]

H

Op has already said she can't give hay

Moomin1 OP's original question which was the one I read and replied to was 'how would YOU manage him?', not 'how can I manage this horse whilst not giving him hay?' This is my answer, This is how I would manage him.

 

[Moomin1]

B

Moomin1 OP's original question which was the one I read and replied to was 'how would YOU manage him?', not 'how can I manage this horse whilst not giving him hay?' This is my answer, This is how I would manage him.

Well that's hardly helpful to OP is it?

 

[Equi]

I would put him out at night rather than the day if he needs out, sugars drop in grass at night.

 

[Leo Walker]

The haylage is just so he has something to eat. He started eating the fencing which isnt something he has never ever done before. The second day he was there he damaged a load of the fencing :/ I've now moved the electric fencing round his pen so he doesnt have access to the fence. I think it was just him being unsettled and cross at seeing other liveries being fed as when he was on full livery they all got fed together, etc but i dont want him wrecking the joint.

He would normally get hay but he was moved as an emergency and I couldnt get a hay delivery in time, so I had to get him something and they market it as high fibre, low sugar and suitable for lamintics etc. Hes had less than a bale of it in 4 days, so limited amounts. He will be going back to old seed hay in the next few weeks once I get on board with the hay deliveries as I share everyones concerns about the haylage no matter what the blurb on the packing says. If nothing else, he finds it delicious and its better that he eats when hes really hungry, not when something appetising is served up :lol:

I am going to buy a hose pipe tomorrow so I can chop it up to sort the fencing. He is very respectful of electric fencing, and thats a good thing! But it means I have to make it very Frankie friendly or he will just stand on the other side quivering! It has taken me longer than it should have done to get my head around electric fencing. Ridiculously I thought that it had to be a complete circuit, it never crossed my mind that the horse completes the circuit and thats why they get a shock. Sometimes I am so dim even I am surprised at my idiocy!

 

[Zipzop]

I'm sorry Moomin1 I didn't realise you were policing my replies. I answered the question and at THAT time I wasn't aware of the hay situation, my apologies, next time I'll run my answer by you first!

 

[Leo Walker]

Dont start bickering I'm open to any and all suggestions There are some things I probably cant do or would find very hard and therefore I look for the easiest option. But I am open to all suggestions as there are usually work rounds if needs be I wouldnt be asking if I didnt want other peoples opinions

Hopefully thats enough smiley faces to difuse the situation :lol:

 

[Moomin1]

I'm sorry Moomin1 I didn't realise you were policing my replies. I answered the question and at THAT time I wasn't aware of the hay situation, my apologies, next time I'll run my answer by you first!

? I simply pointed out that OP can't feed hay. You then said you posted what you did because you are answering what YOU would do. You didn't say you hadn't seen the post about not being able to feed hay.

OP I feel your pain with this one, my mare is nigh on impossible to keep weight off despite me trying most things.

 

[JFTDWS]

The haylage is just so he has something to eat.

That's what the straw is for

He's fenced away from the fence now anyway. F used to eat the wood when he was on box rest with haylage. Now he's more than happy with 24/7 access to straw. To be honest, I'm feeding mine to keep weight on right now as straw, work and poor grazing works so well.

 

[dollyanna]

A track doesn't have to be round - you can make a long snaking kind of track to make a maze, giving him access to all the land but making him move much more to get to it. If you make one long thin winding track and put the water at the opposite end to the shelter, and then scatter forage in tiny piles as needed around the track then he will keep moving all day. Draw your set up on paper and then play around with lines - you can even do things in such a way that a short piece of rope will section off part of the track so if the grass gets too much you can limit it. I usually do concentric circles, the entrance to each circle is offset by half a field, grazing area in the middle (pretty small), water on the outside and any extra forage is scattered around the track or provided in the form of agrobs hay cobs in a grazing toy - that really makes them work because they push it under the fence and have to walk round half a field to get it back again!
If you can then get out walking inhand as much as possible too - the more movement the better, especially if you can't ride.