How would you reschool a strong horse?

[millitiger]

I tend to do tons of walk work with this sort of horse until you CAN reliably ride on a softer rein.

And if the they genuinely are super hot and onwards bound, I do loads of lateral work, literally they do not travel anywhere in a straight line!
You need to be able to get your leg on without them always thinking it means GO!!! If you can't get your leg on, you won't be able to release the rein

Transitions can also hot them up even more but transitions within the pace seem more acceptable to the horse!

 

[Jambarissa]

Thank you all, pleny of ideas.

Second ride today, as bad really but at least I knew. I just trotted with tons of changes of direction which (mainly) stopped her trying to canter.

I also messaged owner just saying 'wow she's strong, isn't she?' and she said she's only recently gone back to snaffle for the roadwork and I might want to go back to 3 ring gag - could have mentioned that before!

Anyway owner very happy for me to do whatever I need to. If she were my horse I'd stick with the snaffle and deal with the issue so might try that for now and just go to the gag of I find myself not wanting to ride her.

Hadnt even occurred to me to lunge first, it's that long since I had a forward going horse! She's actually quite a low energy horse on the ground so lunging should tell me something.

Thanks very much for your experience on this.

 

[Miss_Millie]

Thank you all, pleny of ideas.

Second ride today, as bad really but at least I knew. I just trotted with tons of changes of direction which (mainly) stopped her trying to canter.

I also messaged owner just saying 'wow she's strong, isn't she?' and she said she's only recently gone back to snaffle for the roadwork and I might want to go back to 3 ring gag - could have mentioned that before!

Anyway owner very happy for me to do whatever I need to. If she were my horse I'd stick with the snaffle and deal with the issue so might try that for now and just go to the gag of I find myself not wanting to ride her.

Hadnt even occurred to me to lunge first, it's that long since I had a forward going horse! She's actually quite a low energy horse on the ground so lunging should tell me something.

Thanks very much for your experience on this.

If she is quite a low energy horse on the ground, it does make me wonder if her tack could be causing her some discomfort, as the riding experience you describe sounds like a very different horse. There's always a genuine reason for these behaviours, but it can take a while to get to the bottom of it. You almost need to go through all of the potential causes, striking them off until you find a likely reason.

E.g. if you work with her on the ground and she responds to basic pressure and release, that would suggest it isn't a case of not being taught those basic aids. You could even long-rein her and see if her pace is different when you aren't on her back. If it is then that would suggest it could be poor saddle fit, or that her back isn't muscled enough to support the weight of the rider, causing her to be unbalanced.

I wouldn't bit up, regardless. It is a band-aid to the problem and could be doing a disservice to this horse if there's something else going on, like a pinching saddle. Let us know how you get on

 

[moosea]

I wouldn't say it's so much as letting them bomb as refusing to let them have a rein to lean on. I have many times tied the reins in a knot (to prevent me taking hold) and ridden from my seat. If they get forward and unbalanced then just circle, but from your legs. It doesn't take long before they realise you'll let them fall on their nose unless they remember they are responsible for their balance.

Always in a school though. Nothing worse than being given something that leans on you out for a ride.

If they are genuinely 'hot' Then after warming up I'd work them in trot for a good 15 - 20 minutes, untli they are cooler and listening. Lots of leg yield, lots of lengthening and shortening and loads of random shapes and changes of rein. I never worry about what shape the horse is... just worry about what I'm doing and what I can feel underneath me. If I'm doing it right - they are doing it right. Always ride with plenty of leg to support.

Thank you all, pleny of ideas.

Second ride today, as bad really but at least I knew. I just trotted with tons of changes of direction which (mainly) stopped her trying to canter.

I also messaged owner just saying 'wow she's strong, isn't she?' and she said she's only recently gone back to snaffle for the roadwork and I might want to go back to 3 ring gag - could have mentioned that before!

Anyway owner very happy for me to do whatever I need to. If she were my horse I'd stick with the snaffle and deal with the issue so might try that for now and just go to the gag of I find myself not wanting to ride her.

Hadnt even occurred to me to lunge first, it's that long since I had a forward going horse! She's actually quite a low energy horse on the ground so lunging should tell me something.

Thanks very much for your experience on this.

Check your position at every marker - really helps because these types tend to pull you forwards. Sometimes it can help if you bring your shoulders behind the vertical.

 

[Melody Grey]

Re: the 3 ring gag- classic case of ‘strong bits make strong horses stronger’ if used incorrectly, I.e allowed to lean.

 

[spottypony90]

Transitions are key - walk, trot, walk. Trot, halt, trot. My mare is similar at the moment and I’m finding that the more transitions I do and the more I focus on the rhythm, the better. I’ll ask her for trot and rh minute I feel her get strong and start to lean or rush I ask for a walk transition. As she gets physically stronger she will be able to hold the trot for longer whilst carrying herself. Same goes for the canter - do lots of canter, trot, canter transitions.

 

[Aperchristmas]

I used to do lots of circles and lateral work with my very hot & strong horse. No point in fighting by pulling, you needed her actually off the leg to be able to work properly. It's much, much harder for them to run off if they're going sideways!

 

[Flying_Form]

Thank you all, pleny of ideas.

Second ride today, as bad really but at least I knew. I just trotted with tons of changes of direction which (mainly) stopped her trying to canter.

I also messaged owner just saying 'wow she's strong, isn't she?' and she said she's only recently gone back to snaffle for the roadwork and I might want to go back to 3 ring gag - could have mentioned that before!

Anyway owner very happy for me to do whatever I need to. If she were my horse I'd stick with the snaffle and deal with the issue so might try that for now and just go to the gag of I find myself not wanting to ride her.

Hadnt even occurred to me to lunge first, it's that long since I had a forward going horse! She's actually quite a low energy horse on the ground so lunging should tell me something.

Thanks very much for your experience on this.

I think you should just continue to use the plain snaffle as opposed to the three ring as it may cause her to lean even more - maybe use it as an absolute last resort.

Don’t be afraid to put leg on - it’s the best thing for a hot horse. forward horses need more leg, lazy horse need less leg. When horses tend to lean and tank off with me, I often resort to lateral work because they actually have to listen to you - it’s quite funny because in my experience they’re actually confused as to why all of a sudden they actually have to wait and listen rather than take off around the arena.

It also sounds like she may be on the forehand and pushing from the front rather than behind so lateral work will help with this, so will a rein back so it might be something to try.

I think transitions might wind your friends horse up a bit at the moment, so maybe stick to walk and ride with your seat - try shortening on the short side of the arena and lengthening on the long side (it can be done in all gaits and not only encourages the horse to ride from the seat, but you to ride from your seat and less from your hands). Getting the horse to halt and rein back at various intervals may also be useful but don’t do this too much as it may also wind them up. Once you’re happy with this and feel the horse is listening, take it into trot, then canter, etc. I don’t agree with the “taking away the contact completely” idea and letting her tank off with you as this may create a habit where she thinks every time she leans you’re going to let her off - but do take *some* of the support away and let her run a little bit but PERSIST with your seat and don’t get frustrated. If you do get any positive response eventually, lots of praise. If you don’t, take it back to a walk.

If you do transitions, don’t do them too often/snappy so the horse gets anticipatory. As well, when they do something correctly - praise them!! I really feel that praise helps them understand what they’re doing well and all it takes is a pat on the neck.

 

[Kaylum]

Circles are difficult for horses unless you have a nice big scool. . Everything we do is circles. Get a book on schooling exercises. Don't do continous circles what does that achieve?

Walk and when that's feeling better add in a couple of strides of trot and then back to walk. .

What's the bridle set up like? Have you the help of an instructor to see how your riding is?

 

[Red-1]

I would check tack first. Then I would teach basic responses on a halter from the floor, using a the halter and voice to initiate backing, but tapping with a whip to back it up until she will back up easily with a slight feel. Then transfer that to a bit, again using a whip to back it up if she pulls into the bit. I wouldn't ride until she really understands the meaning of the feel of the bit and she will relax and yield to it without needing voice or whip to back it up. Then I would transfer that to ridden, possibly using someone else initially to do the standing part, so you don't end up hauling on the reins.

I wouldn't allow strong to feature again. I am a believer that if they pull hard on the bit, well, the feeling of pulling hard should mean a dead stop, so we'd better do that. If she still pulls then that should mean backwards, so we would back. The backing would be done until she yields. No forwards whilst leaning.

I would do stacks of walking and stopping and backing when she is strong, she will initially be initiating those signals to herself, so she need to know what they mean. As a general rule, horses don't like backing, it's hard work.

Once she can walk/halt and back without pulling then I would attend to teaching her what the legs are about, to steer and lay softly on her. I would do transitions within the pace of walk, bending, leg yield etc.

When I came to trot, again as soon as she leans it would mean downward transition and would likely initially mean a whole lot of backing up (as I bet she is habituated to lean through the transition) until she realises the rules transfer through to trot also. Same with canter.

A hot horse needs more leg than a cold one, a cold one needs short, staccato leg aids, a hot one needs them to softly hold the rib cage. That might mean a whole lot more backing until she understands this.

I have retrained 3 horses who had got to the run and nothing else stage, it works. It can be surprisingly short in duration if you are consistent.

 

[j1ffy]

It sounds like a fun challenge to see if you can re-school him, your friend would be very grateful I'm sure!

I agree with @sbloom and @Red-1 that groundwork is a good place to start, for two reasons - if the 'forward' is a balance / strength issue then in-hand exercises will help to re-educate the horse in how to carry himself; secondly it can also help to re-educate the horse in the rein aids and particularly yielding to the rein. The lateral suppleness from in-hand work can then translate to under saddle and gives you another tool to move the horse laterally instead of 'forward forward forward'.

My young PRE is far hotter and more forward than my previous horses (he's my third PRE but has a very different attitude!) so I've had to re-educate myself to be able to ride him effectively. As Red-1 said, leg on is very important regardless of what goes on underneath you initially, also I realised I was over-using my seat and almost constantly had my thighs tight to try to slow him down which actually resulted in him being more tense, I have to remember to relax when he gets buzzy instead of constraining too much. It would be boring if it was easy

 

[black and brown]

Do you or your friend have a trusted instructor who may be able to help you with the re-schooling?

 

[Jambarissa]

I'm loving this thread, thank you.

3rd ride today, we just walked, halted, backed up and did some obstacles someone had left out. 40 minutes of it. She was obedient but still inclined to shoot off if I even shifted my weight let alone put my leg on.

Going to try a hack tomorrow if the weather's OK, i think she's OK out and about so that could be a time to teach downwards transitions without her being too keen to just canter.

Longer term I think you're right, needs to go back to ground work. I'm only in charge for a few weeks (how long does a C section take to heal?) but think my friend would have her hands full with baby so wouldn't mind me continuing if I decide I fancy a project.

My own steed is being a saint lately, need a challenge.

 

[Gloi]

Bombing round on an unbalanced strong pony? That's how I ended up with my leg in plaster when we went splat.

 

[sbloom]

Bombing round on an unbalanced strong pony? That's how I ended up with my leg in plaster when we went splat.

To be fair she's avoiding bombing ...

 

[moosea]

I'm loving this thread, thank you.

3rd ride today, we just walked, halted, backed up and did some obstacles someone had left out. 40 minutes of it. She was obedient but still inclined to shoot off if I even shifted my weight let alone put my leg on.

Going to try a hack tomorrow if the weather's OK, i think she's OK out and about so that could be a time to teach downwards transitions without her being too keen to just canter.

Longer term I think you're right, needs to go back to ground work. I'm only in charge for a few weeks (how long does a C section take to heal?) but think my friend would have her hands full with baby so wouldn't mind me continuing if I decide I fancy a project.

My own steed is being a saint lately, need a challenge.

you see that is what generally happens with these type of horses. People don't put any leg on because they are 'going forwards'

Leg is not just to move forwards. It give you lateral control for sideways movement, it asks the horses body to bend, it helps to drive the inside hind up and over ( which in turn lifts and allows the power to come over the horses back. Leg guides and gives the horse security and direction. You can't ride properly without leg. Use the time you spend in walk to work on yourself. Riding squares is a great exercise. Use poles to mark out a box if you need to.

ETA: I think circles are great. Used 10 metre circles to diagnose whats going on underneath you, to get the inside hind engaged and to make you work on your position!

 

[Hallo2012]

dont just let her bomb off and dont do millions of transitions.

keep the trot very small, and work on getting her to stretch and bend and make sure you keep giving the rein forward, one hand at a time, to encourage her not to lean. if she DOES speed up, just bring the trot smaller, and repeat the same.

she's leaning due to lack of balance, if she's ridden too forward it will exacerbate the issue to start with.

lots of turn on the forehands, lots of shallow leg yields.

once she can carry herself and is more relaxed you can work on engagement.