How would you tackle this problem? (video)

Oh dear!!! Brings back fond memories! My pony used to do exactly the same thing, except in a 40x40m school. She'd bomb off and then put in a dirty stop at the gate. We used to stop and talk there to instructor/mum/sister and she learnt the gate meant stopping and so she'd run to it. We just got over it by never ever stopping her at the gate. It took some quite strong riding though and I was 14 or so then so I had some strength to at least argue with her about it.

Can you put an older rider on him for a week or so? It only took us a short while to sort this out with Suzy. I hope it doesn't cause you too much trouble.
 
The little girl sits very nicely, but I guess the napping was expected, as I think she is holding a neck strap? IMO needed rein contact and leg into hand, and don't go large just yet, get the pony doing circles loops, walk, trot and halt, just keep his attention so he never knows what he's going to be asked to do next. I'm no riding instructor, but speak with the voice of experience, having been carted to the gate many times, as a child and adult!
 
The girl sits nicely on the pony and looks confident, if this is the case I would suggest that someone instructs her to school the pony in the far end of the school doing turns circles etc and getting a nice trot rhythym, go large with the pony when it takes off don't let it stop when it gets to the gate, push it on then get it on a 20m circle until you get the nice trot rhythym again go large and repeat until the pony gets the message. Make sure that the rider dismounts on the centre line and that the pony never stops for what ever reason at the gate and be consistant.
 
Naughty Oliver, not giving her much of a chance is he!!! I would get her to work him in small circles near the gate, till she can get more control of him (he obviously thinks he has the upper hand at the moment and is taking full advantage). She needs to ride as positively as she can away from the gate and when she is heading towards the gate, needs to try and turn him away if he tries to bolt (before he gains too much speed!!!! - easier said than done, hence I suggested starting by working near the gate, so he doesn't have so much room to build up speed). Hope they are back on track soon.
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I'm not sure, the rider didn't seem to do much to stop him?

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It was about the 10th time he'd done that and I basically asked her to go around again just for the sake of capturing it on video. She had tried hauling (he tossed head about and ran faster) and she'd tried kicking on but can't turn him when he's heading for the gate and he actually thought about trying to jump the electric tape at one point.

Doesn't matter if she's working at one end of the school, in walk or trot. As soon as he spies the gate, he's off.

She'd been working him on the lunge, the point being to get her to stop hanging onto his mouth as she's had trouble adapting to his bigger movement from the short choppy Section A she's ridden. Hence the neck strap to show her where her hands should be and to hold on to when we took her reins away, if she felt the need for security.

Her old instructor occasionally stuck a spur on her outside leg as he responded better to that than the short stick down his outside shoulder.

A couple of weeks ago, we had a very similar situation but Hannah panicked, stood in stirrups and hauled on Oliver's mouth. This resulted in him bolting in his attempt to run away from the pressure. At least he's only cantering now ****rolls eyes****


I've had a few suggestions from getting someone else on him to changing the bit from a single jointed snaffle. Old instructor used to ride him. She's very lightweight and he wouldn't try it with her as she was effective enough and strong enough to use legs properly. Could do with a child just a year or so older than Hannah I think.

I guess the best bit is that she found it hilarious today.
 
was just about to reply before you posted, but bloomin thing kicked me off
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I'd say for starters at least he's not bolting, which I know has been a problem.
I can't see what bit he's in (is it a fulmer?). If not a fulmer, it might be worth a go, or a hanging cheek, to give her those extra brakes without being too harsh (it might help with the head throwing, as they can help bring the head down). A single joint already has that nutcracker action, which natives either tend to love or hate. You could try something with a port? (I'm assuming as a native he has a stick tongue). Just thoughts really... I'm no bitting expert.

Is that Oliver's field he's being ridden in? Does he ever graze there?
I only say that as of all the times I've ever ridden in a field it's only been in the pony's own field, or where they've grazed that i've had problems. My first pony would bolt each time he was riden in his field. Ginger naps like anything in the paddock he spends most of the year in. With electric fencing you have no 'defined' area for schooling, and I think that might be making matters more complicated.
I would try riding him somewhere else, maybe a menage? Or see if Duncan would mind if you used another field or area? Effectivley, what you're doing is asking him to work, in an area he sees as his chill out area, or in very close proximity, with just tape between him and the other horses. He is still young, and might not actually be switching over from play time and work time (in his mind). Does that make sense?

Hanah rides really well, but you can see she's nervous, which on such a young intelligent pony isnt a good mixture. If riding him away from his play area doesnt work, and making sure there is good sound solid fencing in the schooling area, then I'd be inclined to try and get a small adult to school him.

How did they get on with the hacking btw? Did Hannah ride him off the LR and how was he?
 
Hannah gets on fine hacking him. He's a star on the road.

Oliver never grazes in that area of the field. It's a "schooling" area left for riding in, although Patches and Tweenie had been in there eating.

I wouldn't say Oliver's ever been distracted by the other ponies in the fields. He doesn't graze with Tweenie and Patches either. He goes out with Dinker. Never been bothered about leaving the others.

Hannah does ride him in a manège as she has lessons on him with her instructor at her yard. He does the same in her school although he doesn't canter for the gate, he just stops at it after snatching with his head and pulling her towards it. Doesn't do it initially, but after about 20 minutes. However, Hannah is a bundle of nerves in an arena. She's scared stiff of the fencing as she's had her knees bashed by him several times.

He's ridden in a single jointed full cheek snaffle, to aid steering . (Do you see the irony?!) We have tried him in a hanging cheek snaffle but he just went backwards. It all seems to stem from him knowing her outside leg isn't firm enough to turn him. She cannot steer him away from his direct "exit stage left" attitude or turn him before he gets to the gate.

I've no objection to a lightweight adult (not me then boo hoo) getting on him. Problem is, I already know he won't do it with them because they're stronger and more effective. He never tried this with Hannah's old instructor. Deep down, I feel it's got to come from Hannah, I just don't know how to help her "get there".

Going to consider shortening the sessions and get the ground poles and cones out to keep his mind a bit more occupied.
 
What a cheeky pony!! At least she doesn't look to bothered about it. She sits very nicely but she is quite small on him and he has quite a thick set neck so he just sets it against her and there's really nothing she can do. I talk from experience as my horse is built like that ans when he decides to bugger off there's very little I can do about!!
I don't like suggesting stronger bits or gadgets but maybe a martingale might prevent him getting his head up? Would have suggested what other people said about small circles and shapes to get him listening but these might also be good to get him bending and suppling up his neck and softening his jaw so when he does set aginst her if she flexes him one way and then the other it 'breaks' up the neck, if you know what I mean? This is what I did with my horse and it has made a big difference.
Another suggestion is could you make a gate somewhere else? I tried this before with a pony who used to charge back to the gate and as we have two gates into the arena I used to alternate which one he went in so he never knew which one to bolt to! As your area is electric fencing you could try bringing him in a different way each time so he won't associate just one exit for escaping out of. Also make sure the work is fun for him so he doesn't want to escape, lots of pole work, bending, even some pony club games to get them both enjoying themselves. Has she anyone else to ride with as this might help aswell?
Good luck with him, she'll have a great time when she's grown into him a bit more!
 
Thanks Calzy.

She's had a major confidence crisis recently and Oliver quickly learned that she'd stop riding him if things got a bit hairy. It's great to see that she doesn't panic now when he acts up. She desperately needs to strengthen up and show him she can "boss him about" and then I'm sure he'll be better behaved and stop running through the bridle. Like you say, she needs to grow into him, but she also needs to now show him that she will ride him and he cannot get away with unacceptable silliness.

Funny about the gates....that is the only one he runs back to and yet there are four gates leading from the field. A solid blue five bar gate (fenced off at the moment by the green stakes and two strands of tape because of the acorns from the oak trees. There are also two gates in the length of fencing where Tweenie and Patches are.

I think I have a martingale which we could try on him. I often think they don't do alot and I prefer to put the saddle on before the bridle, which is why I don't tend to use them normally. Will certainly be worth looking at.

As for his neck.....oh yes...he has a big neck. He's very soft mouthed though which is why she has to learn to ride from seat and legs, big ask for a 9 year old. If she pulled back on his mouth to stop him, he'd just fight against her as he hates that. He is only just coming up for five though, so teething most likely.

We have poles and cones etc. I'll set something up for the next session.
 
Teazle was exactly the same when we got her. Ellie (my sister) was 8 and Teazle was 5, and being a chunky 13.2 NF she just used to walk over to the gate. She never bolted but she would just walk over to the gate. She was also perfect hacking.

We found she had wolf teeth problems, so had those removed, and she was better after, but she still did it. I used to get on her being 2 years older at 10 and sort her out, but Teazle just worked out to do it with Ellie. So I used to teach Ellie (how funny that was!) and got Ellie to use her leg and whip strongly and hey-presto since then she has never done it! Even when I put 6 year olds on her.

It just takes persistance. But if you want to sort him out then there would be no problem with you getting on him for 20 minutes. he's a pretty sturdy chap, and you're no heavyweight.
 
I wish it was wolf teeth....easily remedied. However, he's already had them removed. His teeth were checked in July and he just needed a light float. Dentist coming back out to my others at the end of this month and Oliver will be re-checked then to bring his examinations in line with theirs.

It's so frustrating as I know it's more a rider problem than Oliver. As you say, he just knows he can get away with it and so he keeps trying it on. Doesn't do it with the old instructor, new instructor or when G rode him for F before I bought him.

He's just being a cheeky toad. It's the native in him. Far too clever for his own good.
 
I agree..I'd get on him myself and do with daughters pony who is 13.1hh and I'm bigger than you are I'm sure..
I'd also keep sessions short and sweet. He's only young and their attention span isn't all that. Maybe introduce trotting poles, bending, anything to keep his attention. Try teaching them some trun on the forehand and leg yeilding. They're never too young for that and it'll help her steering.
I'd also check his teeth and the shape of his mouth. Daughter had terribe troubles with steering when we first got her pony (also a 4yr old!!) and it turned out that she had a low palate and hated the nutcracker action of a single joint as it was hitting the roof of her mouth. She's ridden in a french link now with no probs..
 
I think if he was my pony I would get a small adult or handy larger child to start riding him regularly. Currently Hannah looks scared stiff & he's learning very quickly that he's in charge. I would want someone helping with him all winter if at all possible & being firm (but fair) to ensure he doesn't become set in his ways. Currently he's being cheeky but not actively nasty.

I would not have Hannah ride him in that environment any more than necessary, he will be bored with it. I would hack out as much as possible in a nice safe environment, if neccessary on a lead rein off Patches.
If possible I would stick to schooling in an arena with instructor present, PC rallies will be good as he won't know which way is home. There's no rush so a Winter of working on the basics will do neither of them any harm, but I wouldn't want Hannah to be trying to sort him out myself, he certainly doesn't need to learn how easy it is to despatch small people.
 
My initial reaction is to put a stronger rider on. He looks to be seriously taking the pee.
Does he rein back? When he takes off stop him dead and then rein back. making him rein back will get the submission.

Is Hannah having confidence issues? Shes a lovely little rider but needs to toughen up with him.
 
You can clearly see he's not frightened and he's not in any sort of pain. He's just merrily going on his own way at his own speed... and he's enjoying it.
 
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My initial reaction is to put a stronger rider on. He looks to be seriously taking the pee.
Does he rein back? When he takes off stop him dead and then rein back. making him rein back will get the submission.

Is Hannah having confidence issues? Shes a lovely little rider but needs to toughen up with him.

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She has had some major confidence issues as she's struggled to adapt to his bigger movement compared to her old pony. She mistook his stride length for rushing and was trying to contain him by hanging on his mouth, which got him very tense.

She's starting to overcome that but has heard me and her instructor tell her time and time again that she mustn't hang on the mouth that she now can be a little too un-assertive when he takes the piddle.

The problem with her is the use of her legs, or lack of. A while ago she witnessed the old instructor get aggressive with Oliver which resulted in him bucking and running off. She's been worried that a sharp kick will have him bolting or throwing her off. It won't of course, as the instructor was wearing spurs and as an adult was kicking a damn sight harder than Hannah could manage.

It's coming together, just very slowly. She's fab on him on the lunge and can make him leg yield in and out on a circle. She's fine in the field at walk and at trot for about 5 - 10 mins. After that, he calls time and wants to finish.
 
oooohhhh that video looks rather familiar - has happened to me rather a lot!! I have a cheeky native who is built like a tank. At the end of the day I know it's down to me not being an effective enough rider, although he is waaaaay to strong in a snaffle and is currently in a pelham.

Is Oliver setting his neck? That's what my pony does, and once his neck is set I don't stand a chance at steering him away from the gate. I have to be really careful not to ever stop at the gate for a chat/to tighten my girth/to get on or off or slow down at the gate, and that seems to make a difference. The other thing is to learn to anticipate it, and get control/distract them just before they set their necks - although for me this is easier said than done.
 
Haven't tried one, but certainly could do.

He doesn't open his mouth in reaction to the single jointed though. That was what Patches used to do....and I went and fastened her mouth shut with a flash until I realised why she was doing it!
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Instead of standing in the middle of the field could you position yourself by the gate he naps to, perhaps with a schooling stick or something (as a threat!), so you're ready to send him on and away from the gate when he tries to nap towards it and stop? By doing that you would basically be backing up Hannah's outside leg.
Other than that I agree with what everyone else has said. Keep sessions short and try not to put him in a position where he's likely to nap for a while until she gets stronger. And I wouldn't let him finish on a nappy note either - even if you get on him for 5 mins at the end it's better than him associating his napping with getting to finish work.
 
Sneaky little boy
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Hannah rode him just beautfully though didn't she - no panic or flapping around.

I agree that an older slight more experienced child might help. Someone that can sit there use their legs, and haul at the same time.

Have you tried a running martingale - it might help Hannah in that if he starts to toss his head if she gets tough, he has some sort of restriction......

Gotta smile at the way he does it though - what a cool customer
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if that's the only gate he runs back to, i'd stand there myself with a lunge whip, and just lift it as he comes towards you, and let him know that there's no escape and nothing nice waiting for him there! i'd never hit him with it, or even brandish it really, just let him know that that is not a fun place to run to. i'd use my voice to send him away as well.
she sits very nicely and he looks a nice pony, but obviously thinks he's got the upper hand.
i'd also see if she can use her voice aid, and a neckstrap. teach him to halt on the neckstrap, so she can use that aid in extremis.
i'd school him in a different field if pos until he has a bit more respect for her, too!
 
if that's the only gate he runs back to, i'd stand there myself with a lunge whip, and just lift it as he comes towards you, and let him know that there's no escape and nothing nice waiting for him there! i'd never hit him with it, or even brandish it really, just let him know that that is not a fun place to run to. i'd use my voice to send him away as well.
she sits very nicely and he looks a nice pony, but obviously thinks he's got the upper hand.
i'd also see if she can use her voice aid, and a neckstrap. teach him to halt on the neckstrap, so she can use that aid in extremis.
i'd school him in a different field if pos until he has a bit more respect for her, too!
she needs to accept that if he's being rude to her like that, she can be rude back and haul on the inside rein only... he's unlikely to object so much if it's only one rein and he obviously has somewhere to go.
 
Have you tried the one-rein stop? it is more than just a stopping method, it has an empowering effect over the pony - telling him SHE is the boss!
If your daughter is worried about him bucking when she is firm with him then this is a great tool because he is physically unable to buck or rear whilst in this position, I have great success using this with all kinds of behavioural problems, infact it has never failed. I have had it work well for children too, and as you have found out it isn't just a case of having a stronger rider sort him out!
Whenever a pony is naughty or decides to take matters into their own hands (or rather, hooves), they soon learn that they don't get their own way, it doesn't mean your daughter has to have him running around in circles everytime he puts a foot wrong - soon they change their minds about mis-behaving from the slightest twitch of one rein, because they learn that running around in tight circles is no fun! and eventually he won't try his luck at all.
It would build your daughters confidence with him, because it is only the one rein it doesn't hurt his mouth or cause him to panick bolt etc and also because it really works, quickly.
I wish you the best of luck and please keep us updated!
where are you based?

I didn't want to patronise, but if you want some info on the correct use of the one-rein method, let me know!
 
I personally wouldnt stand near the gate with a stick. If he catches sight out of the corner of his eye he might just spook and going at that speed its likely that Hannah will go out of the side door.
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Does Hannah understand why he bolted with her instructor?
 
Well, we've tried to make her understand it was more to do with her riding, than Oliver's temperament.

I think she doesn't understand, but every now and then she gets nervous and can't rationalise it all when she's "up there" on him.

Yesterday was the best she's ridden him, confidence wise, in over two months. It's been a very slow process getting her back to where she was before her confidence crisis began.

I wouldn't waggle a stick at him, largely because he's terrified of the lunge whip as it is. I have stood at the gate and it only makes him more determined to get to me as he must think I'm about to open the gate and let him through.
 
Sorry that was supposed to say I think she does understand it was the way the instructor rode him that made him react but she just occasionally has a wobble and finds it hard to trust him.
 
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