How's he looking- muscle building ideas?

Kokopelli

Kokopelli

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This was taken the other day after being clipped out, he's looking fab weight wise but struggling to get him more muscled.

The neck is coming on nicely and I know that will just come in time with correct work but his bum and behind the saddle is still really weak. We're doing lots of hillwork mainly in walk and trot and I make sure he is working from behind going up the hill. We can't do raised poles/ normal pole work as he just jumps them all which defeats the object :p

He schools 1-2 times a week gridwork once a week and lunges once a week and hacks on the remaining days.

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What are you using when you lunge him? If you aren't already I'd recommend a pessoa or similar. And maybe more roadwork if you have hilly roads nearby? I find that this is better for building them up than hills on grass or whatever. And walk is also better for building them up (so I have been told) - maybe try just walking him out for a couple of weeks?

I think he's looking great though, but can see how his neck is a little more developed than his back end. How is Andy getting on?
 
I have a pessoa but don't like it so never use it, I tend to play around with lunging sometimes I'll do it with two lines. I really like this but it's a lot of faffing so if I'm in a hurry or feeling a bit tired I'll do it the Kerilli way in draw reins. Works wonders on getting him stretching down. We're very lucky to have loads of hills around us but sadly they've just resurfaced the best road hill so the drivers come down way too fast so I really don't want to ride on it.

Andy is looking fab atm he's having a chilled winter just hacking 3-4 times a week and really enjoying it, I think he thinks he's semi-retired :p I'll start schooling him again once I've managed to save up for new saddle and I feel he's has a good break. :)
 
Transitions on a hill! I feel so mean when I make my boy do it, it's quite hard work but does make them really use themselves :D
For lungeing can I recommend trying to find/borrow an EquiAmi? I got one a couple of weeks ago and really rate it, can already see a difference in my Connemara who would much rather be lolloping along idly on the lunge, and definitely prefer it over a pessoa.
Also while on the lunge, doing lots of spiralling in and out and transitions, I found to be very good to 'tone' them.
On the ground you can do carrot stretches, one between the front legs, one on either side, building up how far back it is as they get more flexible, and also one on the outside of each front fetlock (if that makes sense?) - holding the carrot or herbal treat or whatever on the outside of each front fetlock or towards the coronet band on the outside so they have to stretch and bring their head down to meet it. I found it helps their core strength as well.
Have also heard of some people only giving hay on the ground if they're ever in the stable, as opposed to haynets. Could never do that with my boy though - he'd hoover it up far too quickly :rolleyes:
 
Saddle fits well, he's changing shape a lot so we've been changing between saddles but he always has a well fitting one on.

I do feed hay from the ground after an incident with Andy trying to kill himself with a haylage net I no longer trust them. Will give carrot stretches a go, think he'd quite enjoy that :)

Not sure I know of anyone I can borrow one off, might look to see if I can get a cheap second hand one as I've been considering getting one. I'm kind of stuck between an equi ami and a chambon.
 
long and low but active walk work and same type trot work up hill
halt on down hill and few strides walking backwards up - apparently that's the quivelent of mega pilates core work for a horse!
carrot stretches and pressure points (ie run finger front to back where girth lies to get horse to 'lift' its stomach - obv be kind or you might get a kick ;)
also running thumbs either side of tail to get bum to go curl under (does that make any sense?!)
strapping also helps
you're happy with weight - but are you feeding the right food for muscle gain? i know fibre based diet is the best - but i really do rate baileys topline conditioning cubes for giving the body the right levels of proteins etc to build muscle
 
Didn't think of rein back up hill, definitely something worth giving a go. When I do go up hill I really collect him and make it hard work for him.

He's fed chaff, pony nuts and blue chip. Going to replace nuts with speedi-beat soon and he also gets a bit of linseed oil.
 
Kokopelli said:
Didn't think of rein back up hill, definitely something worth giving a go. When I do go up hill I really collect him and make it hard work for him.

He's fed chaff, pony nuts and blue chip. Going to replace nuts with speedi-beat soon and he also gets a bit of linseed oil.
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i'd try swapping the pony nuts for a bag of baileys no 4 - even just try a bag - speedibeet again is just a fibre based calories and although the blue chip has some proteins etc for muscle building its not really enough for the amount of muscle you need him to gain to have a decent topline. muscle growth has to be supported by suitable inputs or he will just use the calories up rather than use them to gain bulk if that makes sense?

micronised linseed is far better on your pocket than linseed oil ;)

eta - i dont know his history/age etc - but personally for me - if you are going to be working on topline - i;d want a little more condition on him - i'm not talking fat pockets/obese etc - but i do find that muscles are built more quickly if there is some reserves to use (mare in my pics was bought as a 10yr old totally upside-down banana shaped yak -it took a lot of work to get her to gain correct muscle esp as i was working from a basis of say 6yrs incorrect muscle building - so i've een through the struggle - for her i turned away for first winter - let her loose all incorrect tone - then built back up from scratch)
 
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Up hill, yes, not fast yes but mainly long and as low as possible, mine goes with her nose on the ground ( or perhaps a few cm above) and has the most beautiful apple bottom. ;)
 
we tried lungeing over a couple of poles with my girl after the chiropractor recommended it. I would sometimes raise them at one end to make her pick up her legs (especially hinds) even more. It has taken a long time but finally she is getting a round bum instead of a triangle!
 
If you have a pessoa I would get using it. My vet told me to get a hold of one for my boys back after he damaged it :(

Worked a treat as you can use it on the long anf low setting and they can stretch right down just cant go about like a giraffe and it takes minutes to set up.

I lunge normally for about 10 mins on each rein as a warm up then pop the pessoa on and do another 10/15 mins on each rein moving around the schooling area.

I would honestly recommend it as a better piece of kit than draw reins and I have used both :)
 
Will look into feeds, thank you. Problem is sourcing micronised linseed is a nightmare.

I don't mean draw reins to ride in just for lunging and I don't like pessoa as it catches them in the mouth when they.trot.
 
equimins do a large bag that you can order if you have a local feed store that sells it - if not then you can order online via charnwood.

and yup - agree re pessoa ;) yes works for some but really didnt work for mine - even posted vids on here and the hardcore pessoa lovers told me all sorts of things i was doing wrong - i changed - and changed - looser, tigher etc - but gave up - she just did not work well in it - so i chooped the front end off and just used the breeching to get her working from behind - then use a bungie a'la kerelli method on the front - not tried the draw reins method (bungie works well so dont fix what aint broken ;)) yet but like look of it :)
 
Kokopelli said:
Will look into feeds, thank you. Problem is sourcing micronised linseed is a nightmare.

I don't mean draw reins to ride in just for lunging and I don't like pessoa as it catches them in the mouth when they.trot.
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Never found that personally and ive used it for years but each to their own worked a treat for my boys injury :D

How do you secure your draw reins when lunging?? Curiosity, I have nothing against them, have used them to sort out horses with rearing issues as I think in an experienced and sympathetic par of hand they are a useful piece of kit.
 
You tie them in a not behind whithers very loose, then thread between front legs to bit. It is so loose not forcing head down but really encourages them to stretch. Will post a photo when I get home. :)
 
If you watch a slow mo video of a horse in a pessoa you'll see their hock action causes a see saw motion on mouth. I won't use it now as there are more correct ways of getting them lunging well.
 
Kokopelli said:
if I'm in a hurry or feeling a bit tired I'll do it the Kerilli way in draw reins.
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Kokopelli said:
You tie them in a not behind whithers very loose, then thread between front legs to bit. It is so loose not forcing head down but really encourages them to stretch. Will post a photo when I get home. :)
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Really intrigued to know what the 'Kerilli' way is - please can you post a pic when you get chance? I was going to reply recommending a Pessoa when I read your OP but obviously won't now :o:p
My boy has quite a poor topline :( but a great bum - I think it's because we do a lot of 'long and low' rather than round and a lot of hacking on all kinds of terrain. I used to hate hacking but have really been converted to it this year, seeing my horse's shape change quite drastically since we moved somewhere with better hacking. We're working on the neck now!
I like the idea of reinback uphill too - will try that.
 
LittleGinger said:
Really intrigued to know what the 'Kerilli' way is - please can you post a pic when you get chance? I was going to reply recommending a Pessoa when I read your OP but obviously won't now :o:p
My boy has quite a poor topline :( but a great bum - I think it's because we do a lot of 'long and low' rather than round and a lot of hacking on all kinds of terrain. I used to hate hacking but have really been converted to it this year, seeing my horse's shape change quite drastically since we moved somewhere with better hacking. We're working on the neck now!
I like the idea of reinback uphill too - will try that.
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This isn't a brilliant picture as I'm not getting him working well enough from behind, but as you can see the draw reins are incredibly loose and not forcing his head down at all.

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He was quite a bit weaker in this picture, not long after I got him.
 
I'd try some d&h build up cubes. They really put muscle and condition on a hose I had - and he was very, very rarely worked in the school. I'd like to see more flesh on him if he were mine.
 
Have got some build up cubes that I used on Andy and nuct admit they were amazing for weight gain didn't really think of doing it for muscle as well, thank you
 
AdorableAlice said:
Tub or two of Myoplast.
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My mare is looking a bit hat-rack right now, both weight and muscle wise. The vet was out recently doing vaccs, teeth, worm counts etc and he gave her the once over. Reckoned her main issue was lack of top line rather than weight itself,and said the myoplast was one of the few supplements he rated, and can help even if they aren't in work.
 
now_loves_mares said:
My mare is looking a bit hat-rack right now, both weight and muscle wise. The vet was out recently doing vaccs, teeth, worm counts etc and he gave her the once over. Reckoned her main issue was lack of top line rather than weight itself,and said the myoplast was one of the few supplements he rated, and can help even if they aren't in work.
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It does work, is easy to use and they eat it easily, of course the downside is the cost, but with weight gain bagged feed coming in at over £12 a bag now and only putting a gut on rather than a top, Myoplast probably is not that expensive in relative terms.
 
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