HOYS Showing classes!

[Springs]

I poped into HOYS on Thursday as the taxi driver for the return home for the girls! I witnessed a couple of events that just reinforces the reasons why I don't enter riding horse or showing classes!!

Why do the same people always win the in hand classes? do they have the best horses, possibly' but they are unlikley to be able to continue with a top line of top horses year after year! The reserve champ this year was a nice brood mare, however the 3yo was by far an out standing horse but didn't have a name presenting it!!!

On another point, the horse placed second was disqualified, it spooked when the winner was announced and a group next to me, (quite understandably), schrieked with excitement and the horse (who was virtually next to the group), spooked side ways causing an elderly gent in the arena to tumble. From my position the horse was spooked, how ever, the judges including, Mr Robert Oliver ,then disqualified the horse for bad manners! I appreciate the importance of manners but felt this was over te top This was a very poor decision. Yet , later, one of the winners nearly stampeeded the judges?

Please explain? or was the wrong name in second?

Oh I have no connection with any of the competitiors in any of the classes.

 

[conniegirl]

Inhand classes at hoys? as far as i am aware there is only one inhand class at hoys and that is the CUDDY. Also with the new seating arrangements how on earth can you get close enough to judge what the judge is seeing. Yes the 3 yr old may have been flashier or have more presence. But could have had a massive splint or a fault in its action. The Cuddy is a mix of types as well so it may not have been as good an example of its type as the brood mare was of hers.

 

[volatis]

Which 3yo do you mean in the Cuddy?

In answer to your question about the same faces always being at the top of the line up, well producers like Jerome Harforth and Moggy Henessey seem to source fantastic horses year in year out, plus they can pick and choose the best ones to show from those they get asked to produce.

And dont forget they know a huge amount about how to feed and train a horse to give the best performance in front of the judge. In showing of course it helps to be a face the judge knows but they are professionals for a reason - they are bloody good at their job.
It is a brilliant feeling when you beat them in the ring as you know you've done a really good job producing your horse. I've beaten the above two a few times and the judges wouldn't have had a clue who I was, so it was definatyl on merit and not on being a 'name'

 

[TarrSteps]

I know nothing about showing

but it was explained to me that the horse that was eliminated for acting up in the presentation was in a Riding Horse class where, presumably, manners are not only paramount but pretty much the point. Perhaps there is more leniency shown in other classes? It could also be that the horse had already give the judge pause for thought that had been dismissed in the interests of fairness and the behaviour confirmed suspicion.

Wherever horses are judged subjectively, people have the same questions and concerns. At the end of the day competitors are paying for the judge's opinion and while there are criteria for the class there is always going to be some difference between how judges weight one over another. Also, horses are not the same every day.

Having said that, there are simply superior horses - and producers - in the world. While I'm not saying judges don't have biases sometimes, it's been my experience that talented, experienced producers not only prepare their horses most effectively but they often have the best raw material to start with. Success begets success. Someone with a talented horse will be more likely to place it with a winning producer. Producers used to looking at horses will be more able to spot the next star and less likely to have to persevere with one that can win but won't always. They also tend to be more confident and more certain in their presentation, which can't help but influence a judge, even subjectively.

So, yes, top people can and do have "better" horses, year after year, for a variety of reasons.

Some exhibitors really are amazing. I produced a very nice filly a few years ago for in hand classes and for a number of reasons it was very important to the breeder she do well, so they hired the "top dog" handler in our area. It was absolutely amazing to watch him. I looked at that filly every day and yes, she was nice, but somehow he made her look the absolute best she could look, every second that it counted. I have no doubt that he showed her better than I or the owner could ever have done. Maybe she would have won anyway, and maybe having a "name" attached to the front of her helped, but I have no doubt he also did a better job.

As above, it's not always easy to judge a class from the rail or to divine what a judge is seeing or thinking. I'm sure anyone involved with showing learns to accept this, in the long term if perhaps not the moment.

 

[ajb]

Springs..Im soo glad you saw the Riding Horse (search for a Star) as that was my best friend, a very normal everyday amatuer rider on her own normally very nervous part bred..she was elated at being placed second and gutted at being sent out..I have to say having been sitting a few feet from her it was just unforunate that the fossil of a steward was just too old to move backwards at the speed he tried to and fell..the horse didnt touch him and just spooked majorly at the loud cheering from behind him when the winner was announced...she cant do SFS again on him so that was her HOYS chance

...I appreciate the show horse needs good manners but FFS they are horses not machines and Im afraid I agree with you..the reasons i dont bother to show anymore..to many people playing god-what they liked about the horse to place him second was still there and they used their power to shatter someones dream....very sad...

 

[Springs]

Hi,

Please pass on my regards to your friend. I will at some point in the future point out the error that occured, there is a complete differance between a spooked horse and one with bad manners, Your friends horse was spooked and I would challenge anyone to have ridden the the horse any better than the rider at the time! I was extreamly disapointed with Mr Oliver and I will make this known to him as and when I see him

As for the showing classes they were a complete farce. sorry everyone, I have been to a number of shows with youngsters and the ones presented at the final were no better than others I have seen out and about. It's not the horse it's who it is been presented by that counts at the higer level.

John C

 

[ajb]

Spring that you for your comment..indeed the horse was spooked and is not bad mannered...im just glad others saw it and can tell the difference so thank you for that.

 

[volatis]

Springs, you still havent said which 3yo you mean? Just interested to know which one you liked

I couldnt get to HOYS to watch this year but have seen a few of the Cuddy qualifiers this season

 

[Simsar]

Check HOYS results.

 

[conniegirl]

I'm sorry but if the mare was that spooky then she should have had her ears stuffed. Its a bog standard thing to do in showing and in showjumping.

Any show horse should stand quietly to recieve a rosette no matter what is going on and untill the judge has dismissed the class the rosettes can still be changed round. Its something you have to accept if you are showing. Manners and reliability are paramount in a riding club horse. Spooky horses don't make the best ring club horses because you are too worried about what they are going to spook at next.

 

[RLT19]

sorry
totally disagree with the ears being stuffed. Our horse was placed at Hoys without plugged ears - purely because he doesn't like ear plugs & shook them out whilst trying them before showing with them. They only upset him so caused more trouble, so I do not think that you can plug every horses ears.
I think what everyone is complaining about is that in some classes in hoys horses are allowed to fidget etc & in others such as the class mentioned the horse is dismissed. I think that everyone just wants to see the same treatment of every person.
Judging by what I have read on other web forums this is & always will be a hot topic.
By the way I have no connection with any of the above people & I in fact judge at top level so I have no bias to anyone mentioned above. Just airing my view.