HOYS - Showing the world that a lame and obese pony can be a champion

LEC

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I have just read the H&H report with the mini Mountain and Moorland champion and I am absolutely gobsmacked that the judge chose a pony with a topline comprised of fat instead of muscle. It has fat wrinkles on its wither and its topline is so faked through the use of side reins that its back and neck do not match. Was this seriously the best example on the day of a ridden mini mountain and moorland that it beat the rest?

I have little time and respect for showing because judging such as this causes a systemic stink in the system, and for me, animal welfare issues on the way they are treated. If you look back in 1970/80s at ridden ponies they look like mini TBs compared to today's bloated little puffer fish which are being marched round as examples of prime breed examples.

Showing continues to stick its head in the sand and judges are completely responsible for allowing this to go on. Showing is more corrupt than an Irish horse auction and that is saying something with the amount of shenanigans that go on at those. Nothing will change until judges unite and actually have some balls to look beyond who is riding/producing the pony and judge it on the best horse on the day. Moving fat horses down the line and having open marking. Dressage manages to have open marking. We might not agree with marks and comments but you either choose not to ride under that judge again, ignore it or improve.

Showing is a joke and it continues to be a joke in the horse world yet week on week H&H devotes pages to this ridiculous sport which encourages no true values of horsemanship.

The other thing which blows my mind is not a single show horse canters round straight, they all go quarters in. But that's a whole other annoyance.
 

Antw23uk

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I following an ID page on social media and they often post photo's of them showing and they just look hideously fat overweight horses that couldn't stand up to half a day hunting, let alone a days hunting! I sit on my hands, there is no point commenting when the barrage of abuse i would receive isn't worth it!
 

southerncomfort

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(dons tin hat)

I watched the ridden welsh cob class at GYS and thought some of the stallions were hideous.

I get that stallions are expected to have a large cresty neck but I don't believe thst said crest should be wobbling side to side. Nor should they be blowing hard after trotting one circuit of an arena.

(crawls back under a rock)
 

LEC

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I dunno LEC, i think you should stop beating about the bush and say what you're feeling :p:p

That photo blew my little mind a bit yesterday. it doesn't even look like a bad drawing of a pony.

ASBMO - there's a video.
Oh and why is its throatlash so tight that the poor thing is being garroted?

You know me, say it straight or I keep my mouth shut and say nothing.
 

teddy_eq

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(dons tin hat)

I watched the ridden welsh cob class at GYS and thought some of the stallions were hideous.

I get that stallions are expected to have a large cresty neck but I don't believe thst said crest should be wobbling side to side. Nor should they be blowing hard after trotting one circuit of an arena.

(crawls back under a rock)
Sadly, so common and now deemed acceptable for Welshie's of all sections to be blowing like a steam train.
 

teddy_eq

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@LEC - you've made a clear error in your initial post by calling it a 'sport' - it clearly isn't! It's just a pretty ponies contest and nothing to do with progressive training or development. Its bizarre level of popularity has always, and will continue, to astound me.
I am sorry but this is simply not true or fair.

You cannot say every sub-discipline in showing is a 'pretty ponies contest'. I am sure anyone who's produced a working hunter for HOYS or Olympia would take umbrage to this suggestion.

There are unfortunate examples in every discipline.

Clearly, as I have above said, there are big problems that need sorting and maybe, they won't get sorted but again, implying showing is not a sport overall is a load of crapola!
 

RachelFerd

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I am sorry but this is simply not true or fair.

You cannot say every sub-discipline in showing is a 'pretty ponies contest'. I am sure anyone who's produced a working hunter for HOYS or Olympia would take umbrage to this suggestion.

There are unfortunate examples in every discipline.

Clearly, as I have above said, there are big problems that need sorting and maybe, they won't get sorted but again, implying showing is not a sport overall is a load of crapola!
It isn't a sport. "Sport pertains to any form of competitive physical activity or game[1] that aims to use, maintain or improve physical ability and skills " - showing is equivalent to crufts. Working Hunters are a weird mid-zone - the thing that doesn't make it a 'sport' for me, is that you could produce the most well trained and athletic horse to jump clear around a WH track, and STILL not win, because the judge didn't like it's ugly face or wonky legs. Thus, not a pure sport.
 

humblepie

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Definitely not just a pretty pony competition when you get to the horses - to have a horse schooled well enough for a stranger to get on and get a ride out of it including a gallop in an electric arena or in the middle of a county show with all sorts of things going on around you takes a lot of work. There is no where to hide once you have handed the horse over to the judge. This year I had a ride judge that I had to put my stirrups up three holes for and then another week down three - judges come in all shapes and sizes and with varying riding styles and the horse just has to say okay I know what you want. I agree with teddy/eq there are issues which need sorting out in all disciplines but I love showing - to have an elegant horse, beautifully turned out and give a judge a good ride is amazing - perhaps it is an art not a sport.
 

RachelFerd

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Definitely not just a pretty pony competition when you get to the horses - to have a horse schooled well enough for a stranger to get on and get a ride out of it including a gallop in an electric arena or in the middle of a county show with all sorts of things going on around you takes a lot of work. There is no where to hide once you have handed the horse over to the judge. This year I had a ride judge that I had to put my stirrups up three holes for and then another week down three - judges come in all shapes and sizes and with varying riding styles and the horse just has to say okay I know what you want. I agree with teddy/eq there are issues which need sorting out in all disciplines but I love showing - to have an elegant horse, beautifully turned out and give a judge a good ride is amazing - perhaps it is an art not a sport.
Art is a fair description.
 

teddy_eq

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It isn't a sport. "Sport pertains to any form of competitive physical activity or game[1] that aims to use, maintain or improve physical ability and skills " - showing is equivalent to crufts. Working Hunters are a weird mid-zone - the thing that doesn't make it a 'sport' for me, is that you could produce the most well trained and athletic horse to jump clear around a WH track, and STILL not win, because the judge didn't like it's ugly face or wonky legs. Thus, not a pure sport.
I would enter into a discussion with you on this, but clearly, you don't know anything about showing so there is no point ;).
 

stangs

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I’ve been to a few somewhat low level shows, and my main conclusion from those is that in hand classes are much more pleasant to watch. There’s no BTV horses winning classes, no spurs obviously (seriously though - why should anyone at a low level show need spurs?), and horses seem calmer and less anxious. The only ridden classes I’ve seen and had no complaints with were the Concours and the parade.

Regardless, there were no animals that obese at those shows, and the judging seemed mostly fair, which makes me wonder what’s going wrong with high level showing? Or am I just lucky that my local show is as good as it is?
 

LEC

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There is no where to hide once you have handed the horse over to the judge.
I have ride judged and loved it. It absolutely fascinated me on what I clicked with and what I didn't. Some, I couldn't wait to get off and others I could have just stayed on having a lovely time. In a way I would love to get into showing judging just to implement change but its a complete headache.
 

MuddyMonster

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It isn't a sport. "Sport pertains to any form of competitive physical activity or game[1] that aims to use, maintain or improve physical ability and skills " - showing is equivalent to crufts. Working Hunters are a weird mid-zone - the thing that doesn't make it a 'sport' for me, is that you could produce the most well trained and athletic horse to jump clear around a WH track, and STILL not win, because the judge didn't like it's ugly face or wonky legs. Thus, not a pure sport.
But you could say the same about dressage? The best trained and produced is not always the best/ highest marked and winner because its subjectively judged. Or any other discipline that has a subjective or styled based judging element to ìt.
 

teddy_eq

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But you could say the same about dressage? The best trained and produced is not always the best/ highest marked and winner because its subjectively judged. Or any other discipline that has a subjective or styled based judging element to ìt.
Exactly this. A marks based system is operated in many showing classes.
 

RachelFerd

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But you could say the same about dressage? The best trained and produced is not always the best/ highest marked and winner because its subjectively judged. Or any other discipline that has a subjective or styled based judging element to ìt.
Well, no you can't say the same. Subjectivity is a different problem. The dressage judging should be of the performance (and therefore the training) and the best performance should win.

In showing, you could do the best 'performance' - whether that is as an individual show, or in the working hunter round - but still not win, because the horse's 'type' is wrong.

Perfect example is of the olympic gold medal winning dressage performance - in conformational terms, the winning horse Dalera was not an oil painting - she was long backed and not perfectly built for dressage. But such was the brilliance of the training and performance that she overcame those shortcomings to win the class. If it was a showing class, you'd probably put Gio into gold as he is the perfect picture of a dressage horse.
 
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