Huge reaction if left behind hacking - manage it vs tackle it?

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

One thing with Jacob when we are hacking is that if we are to go into trot or canter he MUST be first, otherwise he will really throw his toys out of the pram - and by that I mean he will stop, regardless of rein length and ability to go with the others, and rear (small), buck, plunge, drop a shoulder, bronc etc until you're off. He always managed to get previous owner off and got me off the one time he has done it with me. Is this something you would just manage, or would you tackle it? And if you would tackle it, how would you do so? Happy to send off to a pro or get one in for a short while if that is the answer as I am not confident sitting what he throws in this situation, there is only so many times I can come off of that height and get away with it. I would really love to go to a sponsored ride or the like one day, but unsure if he would be ok being cantered past if his companion stayed walking.


Additional info: he can walk up the 'usual' places we go faster on a long rein, no problem. He will go from zero adrenaline to this reaction, and back to zero - he doesn't pull away once I am off, he just stops, I got back on and we walked home on a long rein. He does feed from other horses adrenaline so I now hack only with calmer energy horses. He can be overtaken when in the canter/gallop without any issues, and remains very good generally. He doesn't buck in the canter, he can be pulled up with my seat, he isn't spooky in the canter either. So it's literally narrowed to this one situation. He also had another horse from behind him gallop off when long reining and didnt react at all, just waited for him to come back, but he did have another in front of him too who didn't react and he is so much better when he has someone on the ground walking with him.

 

[Polos Mum]

Can you break it down a bit and help him practice without going for the full reaction ?

Maybe ride in the school with others and see if he will be OK with them walking off at a faster pace than you. or you stand and have them walk away
Find a situation in which you get the smallest reaction rather than the massive tantrum.

When hacking in walk always go behind - never in front

Build up to hacking where they walk faster than you so the gap builds and see if he can stay calm.
Then 2 trot strides

Have someone walk with you and then have the front horse trot a couple of strides then walk again

Lots of potential combinations to start to teach him it's OK without going for the full situation just yet.

If you have a local instructor who you trust def. get them in for their advice.

 

[tatty_v]

We used to try an exercise where the horse in front pops into trot for a few strides and then turns and trots to the back of the ride. Just wondered if that might work as by the time he’s thinking about reacting he’ll be in front? You can develop it by lengthening the trotting time before looping back.

 

[webble]

Mine sometimes panics when going faster than walk at the back, not as bad as yours though. I've found that if I leave a gap between me and the horse in front and I start trotting first and they start when I'm about to be next to them he is better and worries less

 

[Sealine]

Does it make any difference if you instigate the trot or canter? For example, tell the lead rider that you will start the trot and they must stay in walk. When you have established trot quietly, tell the lead rider to trot. The same applies to trot to canter transition. Start with just a few strides and build up slowly.

 

[ForeverBroke_]

Mine used to be exactly the same. I never cracked it to be honest. If it was trot or canter or if I started first or last.. He would literally freeze, run backwards and buck and just lose all sense of logic. Wouldn't matter how far away his friends went / if they went out of sight - he just screwed himself up in a ball and downed tools.

He was about 17.2hh and super brave - so he generally ended up in-front / avoided the problem all together fortunately!

 

[emilylou]

Good suggestions above but I'd just go ahead and get a pro in. You can then experiment with what works with a rider on top who can stick it out if it all goes wrong. Its something that can be easily sorted with time and good management but is a nightmare to manage long term once it becomes a habitual reaction.

 

[TheHairyOne]

Does it make any difference if you instigate the trot or canter? For example, tell the lead rider that you will start the trot and they must stay in walk. When you have established trot quietly, tell the lead rider to trot. The same applies to trot to canter transition. Start with just a few strides and build up slowly.

This worked for mine, though I only had most of my issues trot to canter (super exciting and he'd just buck and get stuck!). Then moved onto side by side and then started making the gap between them bigger. He now does not a lot more than a head flick if hes having a tetchy day!

 

[Hallo2012]

i dont think this is an unusual reaction....my little pony stallion is the same and wants to ball up and leap around and forgets he can GO forward! hes got total small man syndrome and thinks he is toooooo important to go behind!!!!

generally i go in front or side by side for first couple of canters and we always go walk to trot to canter no firing off quickly.

a few months of doing it twice a week and he will now go behind with far less pinging around.

if you cant sit it i think its no more complex then getting someone on who CAN for a few weeks just a habit to break.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Thanks for all the replies!

He is absolutely fine to be in the school with a few horse cantering around, past, in front or behind him - it is literally just this trigger. I have spoken about it to the instructor who I do my ground work with and she thinks that it's not an adrenaline reaction, but a learnt behaviour. He doesn't like it and so his go to is to get you off, and he has now done it so many times to previous owners, that it's ingrained.

Great things suggested here to deal with it, but when I imagine doing any of them myself it does make me nervous, which isn't going to help the situation. So I think that getting a pro out to give it a try and see what we can do, whether they can help etc is the best idea. We can replicate it on the farm so it shouldn't be too difficult to do. I will pander to him for now and then when I have a little more disposable income I will have a look into who to get out. I need someone brave, but that isn't going to man handle him into submission.

 

[Annagain]

Is it a problem? Do the people you hack with mind? Mine used to get very very strong behind and side by side was a total no-no but the two friends I hack with most often have very laid back horses who were better off behind anyway so it worked for us. As he got older it became much less of a thing and now we can all canter side by side with him in the middle and he doesn't get competitive at all (he is at least 24 though!). Part of it was me though - I used to get worried about him being strong. It took me a long time to trust him and not fight him when he pulled but when I did he didn't get any faster, he's have a 4 stride burst and then settle down. I know it's a slightly different issue for you but maybe just trying not to get worried about what he'll do will help him stay calmer?

 

[doodle]

Minto was delighted for anyone who liked to hack out with him. BUT he goes in front at all times. He was always a jet propelled missile with few brakes but he did NOT go behind. Hacking in company only happened occasionally so I didn’t work in the issue and just made sure he stayed ahead. Which wasn’t usually hard due to the power walking at all times!

We went hunting.......once!

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

It isn't the biggest problem in the world, but it would be nice to be able to take him somewhere like the beach, or to a sponsored ride and not run the risk of him chucking me off if someone overtakes us at faster pace.

I think I would also ask the pro to ride with one other horse, and have another canter past and just test out what scenarios set him off. I will have to find some willing participants at the yard first

 

[emfen1305]

My cob used to do this (I posted on here about it) and whilst at 15hh its not as far to fall, he would literally turn himself inside out and deck me and then just stand over me, no-one could sit it because you couldn't 100% tell when it was coming, you could do everything on the buckle but if he thought he was getting left behind then you would be off. Trot to canter was worst but he did have me off in walk a couple of times! A couple of things helped which have already been mentioned:

1. checking for pain - he was diagnosed with navicular changes so had some treatment and rehab and he has not dropped his shoulder since so that has helped as now the default is to take off (which is a problem in itself but at least I can stay on!)
2. Hack out in front and make him stay in front - this meant lots of power walking but he is much happier in front and happy to be overtaken as long as they don't get too far away!
3. Make him keep up so the gap doesn't ever grow bigger than it needs to - our hacking pal's legs are as long as buddy is high so this both 2 and 3 are hard work for him but this helps
4. Before cantering, allow the gap to grow a little and then pop into canter before the other horse has chance as this settles him and he's already in the canter so generally just gets faster rather than backwards

I mean he still hates being left alone, the other day we did a farm ride and my friend went off to canter a line of jumps, all fine until he went slightly downhill and was just out of sight and then we took off at full speed but again, I preferred this than the shoulder drop as can just go with it, we don't have much space to canter out hacking so don't really have an issue. I still wouldn't 100% trust him on a fun ride or the beach but luckily for me that doesn't really interest me too much! I think it's as much about your confidence as his - mind over matter!

ETA in terms of testing what sets him off - last year i did a beach ride, we had been out for about an hour and a half with two others, he'd been cantering behind most of the time with big gaps and then randomly on the way back his bucked, span and dropped his shoulder and I came off, it came from nowhere and he didn't do it again after I'd got back on so sometimes I don't know what triggers it..

 

[Reri1826]

My boy does this. Puts all his energy into bucking when he could just move faster! It’s such a frustrating habit.

I took him on a Sport Endurance Fun ride with his steady friend, everyone was really good about checking it was ok to go past etc but I was expecting fireworks every time, he didn’t flinch even once (I found endurance people much better than generic “sponsored rides” for passing under control!) But when the same steady friend trotted away from him at a show I got dumped, despite me asking him to follow!

I have never really cracked it and tend to just be aware that it can happen and try and avoid situations that might trigger it. I hack with a maximum of 2 other riders who know not to let the ride get strung out. I keep his walk as active as I can and if we are going to trot/canter and I am behind, I start first and then they go when we catch up, or I let him lead.

 

[Annagain]

It isn't the biggest problem in the world, but it would be nice to be able to take him somewhere like the beach, or to a sponsored ride and not run the risk of him chucking me off if someone overtakes us at faster pace.

I think I would also ask the pro to ride with one other horse, and have another canter past and just test out what scenarios set him off. I will have to find some willing participants at the yard first

Yes I can understand that. A never got silly, just very strong and just got faster if when someone overtook him. There was no way he'd stop until they did but he would then stop without being asked as he was invariably knackered. He's built for comfort not speed, that boy.