Hunting, for or against?

[Wagtail]

After the thread about the poor horse collapsing and dying whilst out hunting, I was wondering what peope's thoughts are now on hunting. Personally, I don't think the fact that the horse was hunting is that relevant to the behaviour of the boy who kicked it when it lay dying. He would have done that no matter what sport he was competing in (though undoubtably there would have been more of an uproar if he had been eventing say).

I don't hunt, and for the record, I think it is cruel. I view foxes the equivalent of dogs and cats, and I would never treat THEM that way, so don't see why I would want to treat a fox that way. But I don't hold it against people who hunt. Each to his own. I don't understand people wanting to do it, but don't condemn.

Of course this view is in the minority amongst horsey people, but wondered how much of a minority I am in?

 

[Wagtail]

Surprisingly even results so far.

 

[mcnaughty]

I have seen 2 horses collapse and die - one at a show in the middle of a jump off (2ft6") and the other at a sponsored ride after a gallop up a steep hill. Could we have a vote on whether to ban these events too?

 

[Flicker]

Feel I need to elaborate on my response a bit.

I don't believe anything should ever be killed or harmed in the name of entertainment. I personally would not hunt because my presence at a hunt would not be of benefit to the hunt, the farmers, the countryside or the wildlife. And I would not wish for the focus of a day's fun for me to the be death of another animal. I don't understand the mentality of this - same way I don't understand how entertainment can be had from bull-fighting, hare coursing etc.

That said:
I recognise the incredibly valuable contribution a hunt makes to the countryside and the people who make their living from it.
I also recognise that hunting one animal with another means that the animals have a fighting chance, and the fit, healthy and strong ones usually live to fight another day. This can only improve the bloodlines and species.
There are far worse ways of killing a fox and to think of an animal snared in a trap, gassed, poisoned or possibly shot and wounded is more horrible than to think of a (hopefully quick) death at the jaws of a pack of hounds.

Furthermore:
I do not live in the countryside. I don't have the faintest idea of the challenges that farmers and other stewards of the countryside are facing. I therefore would hesitate before I started making pronouncements on how they live their lives.

So, while personally not for me, I'm not going to bang the 'Ban Hunting' drum because it's not my place to.

 

[Wagtail]

I have seen 2 horses collapse and die - one at a show in the middle of a jump off (2ft6") and the other at a sponsored ride after a gallop up a steep hill. Could we have a vote on whether to ban these events too?

I don't think you have read my post. I said the boy would have treated te horse the same no matter what sport he was competing in. Also, where has the word 'ban' been mentioned, except by you? This poll is to get an idea of how many people are for or against hunting. It is not supposed to be anti hunting or pro hunting. Simply a question, so why the defensiveness?

 

[Wagtail]

Feel I need to elaborate on my response a bit.

I don't believe anything should ever be killed or harmed in the name of entertainment. I personally would not hunt because my presence at a hunt would not be of benefit to the hunt, the farmers, the countryside or the wildlife. And I would not wish for the focus of a day's fun for me to the be death of another animal. I don't understand the mentality of this - same way I don't understand how entertainment can be had from bull-fighting, hare coursing etc.

That said:
I recognise the incredibly valuable contribution a hunt makes to the countryside and the people who make their living from it.
I also recognise that hunting one animal with another means that the animals have a fighting chance, and the fit, healthy and strong ones usually live to fight another day. This can only improve the bloodlines and species.
There are far worse ways of killing a fox and to think of an animal snared in a trap, gassed, poisoned or possibly shot and wounded is more horrible than to think of a (hopefully quick) death at the jaws of a pack of hounds.

Furthermore:
I do not live in the countryside. I don't have the faintest idea of the challenges that farmers and other stewards of the countryside are facing. I therefore would hesitate before I started making pronouncements on how they live their lives.

So, while personally not for me, I'm not going to bang the 'Ban Hunting' drum because it's not my place to.

What a well thought out and balanced answer!

I do live right in the middle of the countryside. The land owner who owns the surrounding 6000 acres does not allow hunting on his land, but this is because he runs pheasant shoots and the horses disturb the birds. The game keeper comes round and lamps for foxes. The tenant farmer likes foxes as they help keep down the rabbit populaton. We have far too many rabbits. I cannot grow vegetabls as they built a new warren underneath my vege patch They also dig lots of dangerous holes in the paddocks that I am continually having to fill. So, I guess foxes are beneficial to the farmer and to me as a horse owner and failed vegetable grower, but are a pest to the land owner as they eat his game birds. Foxes are therefore pests to some and useful to others.

 

[Sparkles]

For it. Completely.

Against, however, some of the idiots that go who shouldn't even be on a horse, let lone hunting it....That's where the accidents happen through complete ignorance most the time.

 

[Flicker]

Foxes are therefore pests to some and useful to others.

Exactly! Really, when you look at it in the cold light of day, humans came in and messed everything up. Nature was managing herself perfectly fine until we showed up. We're the vermin really - just lucky that there's nothing out there to hunt us!!

 

[monkeybum13]

For hunting.

I'm guessing you'll going to get biased results seeing the forums is "Horse and Hound"

 

[Wagtail]

For hunting.

I'm guessing you'll going to get biased results seeing the forums is "Horse and Hound"

I am expecting around 70% to be pro hunting, yes.

So far more like 60% though.

 

[doodleberry]

I have seen 2 horses collapse and die - one at a show in the middle of a jump off (2ft6") and the other at a sponsored ride after a gallop up a steep hill. Could we have a vote on whether to ban these events too?

well said!! horses do just drop down dead so do people so do cats i could go on!!i do think that that poor horse is prob better off in the great hunting field in the sky as oppose to being treated like that!

 

[Lollii]

I love it! Although I hunt mainly with the Bloodhounds (hunting a runner not a fox) I would go out with the foxhounds if they were nearer....I wish I could go more than I do.

 

[Wagtail]

well said!! horses do just drop down dead so do people so do cats i could go on!!i do think that that poor horse is prob better off in the great hunting field in the sky as oppose to being treated like that!

As I said in my original post, I do not blame the fact that the pony was hunting fo it collapsing and dying. Most horses LOVE hunting, as do the hounds. However, we do need to look at ALL our horsey sports and I believe that a vet should be present at all hunts to periodically check each of the horses, just like one is present for eventing or endurance. Why should hnting be any different?

 

[Wagtail]

I love it! Although I hunt mainly with the Bloodhounds (hunting a runner not a fox) I would go out with the foxhounds if they were nearer....I wish I could go more than I do.

Blood houndsing is brilliant. Fun all round and no having a great time at an animal's expense. I think a vet should be present though, just like I think one should be present for fox hunting.

 

[JadeyyBabeyy]

i am for hunting, purely because i have seen many people have chickens/geese/ rabbits etc. the ar getting too bave, at my college in the space of 5 minutes i saw 2 foxes, jus casually walking around, not evn bothred by the people.
they are pests for farmers, so we should be able to hunt foxes on farmers land etc, but i think in woodlans like perry and chollock woods then no, i dont think they should be hunted, as it is nature there etc.
however when hunting now, if your dogs pick up a scent yu cant stop them.

 

[LauraWheeler]

I'm pro hunting. It is by far the kindest, most humaine and natural way of controlling the fox population. I know not everyone would agree and I have no wish to argue the subjuect. Most of my family are anti hunting and so was I once upon a time but I desided to learn about hunting for myself and now understand how it works and why it is nessecery.
I personly hate fishing I think it is cruel and unnessasery to fish for fun. Fair enough if you are going to eat the fish you catch and once caught you dispatch it quickly. But that doesn't mean I want to see fishing band. Each to there own in this world I just will not take any part in that sport.
As for this issue with the horse having a heart attack. Sadly this happens sometimes no matter what you are doing. I was lunging a pony once. Had only been doing it for 5 mins and had just started to trot when the pony had a heart attack and died It was awful and terrably shocking but there was no warning and nothing I could do. The poor little mare was gone before she hit the ground . And as for having vets out hunting i do quite abit of endurance riding and we have vet checks at the start and fin of every ride and when the rides get over 55km we have vet checks on course as well. Theses are to monitor the progress of the horses and to ensure they are fit enough to continu. At a ride afew years ago I was doing the 80km on Lucy. It was a very very hot day. I got to the second vet check on course and Lucys heart rate was alittle higher than I would have liked 59bpm. Not high to most and lowenough for me to continu. The vets gave me the all clear to carry on but I desided to withdraw from the ride. Later I found out one horse had died on course and was so relieved I had withdrawn Lucy. But to my horror the next day I found out three horses had actualy died on that ride. All had heart attacks. I guess what i'm trying to say is these things happen. (although i'm not condoning the kids behavour in the incedent on sat) and even with vets present you cannot garentee to stop such tragedys.

 

[Lobelia_Overhill]

Couldn't find an option to fit my opinion in the poll... I don't own livestock so foxes don't affect my livelihood, therefore I see no reason to hunt foxes.

I am also aware that foxes aren't the only predators in the countryside, and can't see the point in chasing foxes when stray dogs, feral cats, badgers, weasels, stoats, mink, ferrets and big ass rats cause problems with livestock. Let's face it if they were there, we'd have to protect livestock from cougars, bears, wolves, pumas etc etc etc. Do they have horseback hunts with packs of hounds for those predators in countries that do have problems with them attacking livestock...?

Friend of mine had to have a mass rat cull on her farm when the rats started gnawing on new born calves. Don't have a problem with that sort of thing.

And I agree that humans cause as many problems by interfering with the environment as anything else out there!

 

[Aperchristmas]

I'm pro hunting. It is by far the kindest, most humaine and natural way of controlling the fox population.

Do you really believe that? I'm not anti-hunting but I firmly believe that there are far humaner ways of killing an animal than chasing it across the countryside for a few hours until it gets so tired that it can't run away anymore and is killed.

As I said, I'm not anti-hunting, I just hate it when hunters pretend it's such a humane way of killing an animal when it really isn't.

 

[Sarah Sum1]

Do you really believe that? I'm not anti-hunting but I firmly believe that there are far humaner ways of killing an animal than chasing it across the countryside for a few hours until it gets so tired that it can't run away anymore and is killed.

As I said, I'm not anti-hunting, I just hate it when hunters pretend it's such a humane way of killing an animal when it really isn't.

I agree!

I don't think it is a humane (certainly not kind!) way at all. Must be a terrifying ordeal for the fox. I could think of more humane ways.

ETA I voted each to their own. I don't like foxhunting. But I am a city girl, and perhaps if I grew up in the countryside I may feel different.

 

[LauraWheeler]

I am also aware that foxes aren't the only predators in the countryside, and can't see the point in chasing foxes when stray dogs, feral cats, badgers, weasels, stoats, mink, ferrets and big ass rats cause problems with livestock.

Mink shouldn't be in this country. They are only here because animal rights actavists releast them into the wild from a mink farm. They have devistated our otter population Pre ban Mink were hunted by hounds. The old otter packs started hunting mink instead to control the mink population (which shouldn't be there and to give the poor otters a chance. ) Now it is illegle to hunt Mink As for Big ass rats Thats what a terrier is for. My terrier has been ratting this morning on the stable yard. (not that theres any left he's had them all I think He did catch the mouse thats been eating my feed though )

 

[LauraWheeler]

Do you really believe that? I'm not anti-hunting but I firmly believe that there are far humaner ways of killing an animal than chasing it across the countryside for a few hours until it gets so tired that it can't run away anymore and is killed.

As I said, I'm not anti-hunting, I just hate it when hunters pretend it's such a humane way of killing an animal when it really isn't.

I do believe that. I don't use poison even on rats. It's an awful way to die. The poison causes massive inturnal bleeding and a slow and painful death.
A trap only has to be checked once every 24hrs. So the poor animal could be stck for that long (possably injured) till it is descovered and dispatched.
Shooting isn't always 100%. I have seen many injured animals that have been shot, ran off and then had a slow and agonising death. Also with shooting there is no descrimination between heathy, old or sick foxes. If it is seen it is shot. Where as with hunting a heathy, young, fit fox will usualy escape. As it is much quicker, more ajile and much cleaverer than the hounds. I have seen hounds that where onto a fox. Suddenly the fox hid under some very thick under growth, the hounds ran streight over the top of it. By the time the hounds realised what was going on and had gone back to find the fox it had made it's escape and was long gone .
Also shooting doesn't stop for the foxes breeding season. How does the shooter or person laying the poison/ setting the trap know it isn't a vixen with hungry pups who will all starve if she is killed.
As I said i'm not looking for an argument and everyone is intitaled to there opinon. This is just mine. There are things I don't agree with but I don't judge others for using the methods they choose.

 

[Doormouse]

I do believe that. I don't use poison even on rats. It's an awful way to die. The poison causes massive inturnal bleeding and a slow and painful death.
A trap only has to be checked once every 24hrs. So the poor animal could be stck for that long (possably injured) till it is descovered and dispatched.
Shooting isn't always 100%. I have seen many injured animals that have been shot, ran off and then had a slow and agonising death. Also with shooting there is no descrimination between heathy, old or sick foxes. If it is seen it is shot. Where as with hunting a heathy, young, fit fox will usualy escape. As it is much quicker, more ajile and much cleaverer than the hounds. I have seen hounds that where onto a fox. Suddenly the fox hid under some very thick under growth, the hounds ran streight over the top of it. By the time the hounds realised what was going on and had gone back to find the fox it had made it's escape and was long gone .
Also shooting doesn't stop for the foxes breeding season. How does the shooter or person laying the poison/ setting the trap know it isn't a vixen with hungry pups who will all starve if she is killed.
As I said i'm not looking for an argument and everyone is intitaled to there opinon. This is just mine. There are things I don't agree with but I don't judge others for using the methods they choose.

That was very put Laura, my beliefs too.

 

[Sarah Sum1]

Laura, it does make sense what you say. See this is why I am reluctant to say against, full stop. Which is what I would have said when I first joined this forum. I guess when you learn a bit more, it makes more sense.


Still wouldn't describe it as kind though and I still wish this world was perfect and we didn't have to do such things. But it appreciate it isn't. Sod coming back as a fox though

 

[Hacked_Off]

I do believe that. I don't use poison even on rats. It's an awful way to die. The poison causes massive inturnal bleeding and a slow and painful death.
A trap only has to be checked once every 24hrs. So the poor animal could be stck for that long (possably injured) till it is descovered and dispatched.
Shooting isn't always 100%. I have seen many injured animals that have been shot, ran off and then had a slow and agonising death. Also with shooting there is no descrimination between heathy, old or sick foxes. If it is seen it is shot. Where as with hunting a heathy, young, fit fox will usualy escape. As it is much quicker, more ajile and much cleaverer than the hounds. I have seen hounds that where onto a fox. Suddenly the fox hid under some very thick under growth, the hounds ran streight over the top of it. By the time the hounds realised what was going on and had gone back to find the fox it had made it's escape and was long gone .
Also shooting doesn't stop for the foxes breeding season. How does the shooter or person laying the poison/ setting the trap know it isn't a vixen with hungry pups who will all starve if she is killed.
As I said i'm not looking for an argument and everyone is intitaled to there opinon. This is just mine. There are things I don't agree with but I don't judge others for using the methods they choose.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

 

[kiritiger]

Have been out once with bloodhounds - best day of my life!
But don't feel like I can judge whether foxhunting is right or wrong really because I've never been.

 

[Sanolly]

I do believe that. I don't use poison even on rats. It's an awful way to die. The poison causes massive inturnal bleeding and a slow and painful death.
A trap only has to be checked once every 24hrs. So the poor animal could be stck for that long (possably injured) till it is descovered and dispatched.
Shooting isn't always 100%. I have seen many injured animals that have been shot, ran off and then had a slow and agonising death. Also with shooting there is no descrimination between heathy, old or sick foxes. If it is seen it is shot. Where as with hunting a heathy, young, fit fox will usualy escape. As it is much quicker, more ajile and much cleaverer than the hounds. I have seen hounds that where onto a fox. Suddenly the fox hid under some very thick under growth, the hounds ran streight over the top of it. By the time the hounds realised what was going on and had gone back to find the fox it had made it's escape and was long gone .
Also shooting doesn't stop for the foxes breeding season. How does the shooter or person laying the poison/ setting the trap know it isn't a vixen with hungry pups who will all starve if she is killed.
As I said i'm not looking for an argument and everyone is intitaled to there opinon. This is just mine. There are things I don't agree with but I don't judge others for using the methods they choose.

^^ This, well put Laura Wheeler.

I recognise the incredibly valuable contribution a hunt makes to the countryside and the people who make their living from it.
I also recognise that hunting one animal with another means that the animals have a fighting chance, and the fit, healthy and strong ones usually live to fight another day. This can only improve the bloodlines and species.
There are far worse ways of killing a fox and to think of an animal snared in a trap, gassed, poisoned or possibly shot and wounded is more horrible than to think of a (hopefully quick) death at the jaws of a pack of hounds.

^^Also this

 

[Sanolly]

The other thing is that, nature is cruel all animals hunt by chasing their prey until it is too weak to carry on. wolves, lions, hyenas etc all hunt in packs, why is that any different?

 

[Pedantic]

I have seen 2 horses collapse and die - one at a show in the middle of a jump off (2ft6") and the other at a sponsored ride after a gallop up a steep hill. Could we have a vote on whether to ban these events too?

Think you misunderstand the OP question.

 

[spotty_pony]

I am For hunting and a strong supporter of it. It is not cruel, I think shooting them and catching them in traps is far more cruel.

 

[gunnergundog]

For hunting.

Missed the thread that the OP referred to about a horse dropping dead in the hunting field and being kicked, but my old eventer dropped down under me whilst out hunting.....doing what he loved best. Jumped a hedge, took about four strides, staggered and went down. Yes, it was traumatic (for me) at the time, but in retrospect the best way for him - no illness, no pain to endure.