Hunting in my part of Australia.....

[Ariella]

Well, unfortunately I dont ride these days due to my back and health issues.....but when I was a kid I used to LOVE going to the hunts that we had here locally....

Also unfortunately due to the stupid costs of insurance these days, the ones in my immediate area have been cancelled...


Where I am, our hunts kind of went like this:

No dogs, not actually 'hunting' anything..... just a bunch of people on horses following the 'hunt master'.....

My favourite 'hunt' was the one thats only 4km from our house (which at the time when I was hunting belonged to my grandparents.....so Grandpa and I would just ride out to the start point and then ride home again afterwards.....in some pretty hairy weather at times too!! lol).

There was and still is, a 16km long 'hunt course' in the scrub in a huge paddock out at one of our local granite outcrops....

Jumps ranged from pony club grade 5 size (about 40cm) to about 1.2m...... and there were often the different sizes of jumps along side each other or within a very close vicinity to each other.....you could choose what your level was and do what you wanted as you approached each jump....

I was on my 13.3 7/8 hh pony 99% of the time and was gutsy, so followed the bigger people and horses... quite often finding myself approaching a HUGE jump at a great rate of knots and Jojo and I sailing over it with my heart in my mouth..... the adrenalin rush was amazing!!

We would stop half way for a 'whiskey' - in my case being only a kid at the time I had to settle for coke! lol...

I remember on particularly COLD hunt day it was raining and hailing on and off and the wind was bitterly cold.... I was freezing..... so Grandpa snuck me a sip of his whiskey.... it damn near burnt my throat!!

After we completed the course we would all congregate back at the "Hunt Shed" for a BBQ lunch and get together.....

Then we would re saddle our horses and ride home!! Made for a heck of a long day but a great one at that!!

Just thought I would share my 'hunting' experience with you all.......

Oh, and on weekends when there wasnt a 'hunt' on, Grandpa and I would often ride out to Tcharkulda (where the hunt was held) and just do the course ourselves......

When my brother and I used to ride out there or another friend and I would go out there we would often come across kangaroos in the scrub and give chase..... obviously they were able to out run (or out hop) us but it was fun all the same!

Heck, when we were mustering sheep we would occasionally find the odd fly blown one and have to catch it..... so that usually called for 'bulldogging' the sheep off the side of the horse (not nice when you missed the sheep and landed face first on the ground from a gallop!!), tie its legs together with the lead ropes for our horses and sling it over the back of the horse to take back to the sheds and treat it...... (and the horses got a wash afterwards to make sure that they didnt have any maggots on them from the sheep!).....

 

[Clodagh]

Where abouts in Oz? I used to hunt in WA.

 

[Ariella]

on the Eyre Peninsula in SA.....

 

[Clodagh]

They did 'proper' hunting in WA. There was a couple of drag packs as well, though.

 

[Ariella]

Yeh, down near adelaide, I cant remember the name of the hunt club, but they use hounds and do drag hunting there as far as I know..... same with the eastern states

 

[Mary_Westmacott]

Oh dear! If only the silly hunters hadn't deliberately introduced the fox to Australia you wouldn't have all this fuss and bother.

 

[PapaFrita]

Unconnected post, but Mary... I know your true identity... I know that you are in fact..... AGATHA CHRISTIE
Will leave scary hunt forum now!

Are foxes in Australia red or grey?

 

[wallace]

(I think that's Kangaroos........)

But basically it is the Red Fox that was introduced for recreational hunting to Australia by ex-pat Brits who probably found Wombats and Koalas a bit too easy, and Crocodiles liable to fight back.

In Britain the fox is always denounced as a lamb killer by people defending hunting. Whether or not the fox is a genuine problem economically to sheep farming in the UK is hardly helped by an activity which seeks to maintain its numbers at a level suitable for hunting, rather than at a level to suit farmers or the environment.

Using the argument that the fox IS a significant pest economically to sheep farming it seems strange that it was introduced to a country whose economy grew up on sheep farming.

Maybe not so strange when one allows for the mentality of those who brought about its introduction.

 

[wurzel]

"In Britain the fox is always denounced as a lamb killer by people defending hunting. Whether or not the fox is a genuine problem economically to sheep farming in the UK is hardly helped by an activity which seeks to maintain its numbers at a level suitable for hunting, rather than at a level to suit farmers or the environment."

How do we seek to maintain fox numbers at a level suitable to hunting?

 

[wallace]

It would be a very odd thing to NOT seek to maintain numbers at a level suitable for hunting. If the numbers got too low, then it would be even more difficult to justify doing it at all.
Hence the artificial earths, feeding of foxes and distributing them from an area rich in numbers to one poor in numbers.

Foxhunting as it has been practiced in Britain in the modern era must seek to maintain fox numbers at a level suitable for hunting, otherwise it would nullify its reason for existence. Foxhunting is great for foxes - not individually if the hunt happens to actually catch one, but for the health of the species, it is wonderful.

Perhaps you could answer a question for me?

Why do you think the 'sheep pest' fox was introduced to sheep dependent Australia?

 

[PapaFrita]

"(I think that's Kangaroos........)"

LOL!! But our foxes are grey. Look here

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/plarcade/Ullayzorrossnarling.jpg

... a couple of foxes near the yard giving my defenceless Ulla a hard time!

 

[wurzel]

"Hence the artificial earths, feeding of foxes and distributing them from an area rich in numbers to one poor in numbers."

If you can find evidence of this happening in Minehead Harriers country I will stop hunting.

"Perhaps you could answer a question for me?

Why do you think the 'sheep pest' fox was introduced to sheep dependent Australia?"


Sure. No idea. And care even less.

 

[wallace]

But you asked :-

"How do we seek to maintain fox numbers at a level suitable to hunting?"

And I gave an answer. You are very keen to point to a lack of argument about hunting when it suits you, but when set a question about it yourself, you are reluctant or unable to answer.

Surely the activity of hunting would be crazy to NOT maintain foxes at a level suitable for hunting? What OTHER level would hunting find suitable?
Would foxhunting find it suitable to find foxes at such a low level that hunting itself was redundant?
Or at such a high level that after decades of hunting it was shown to be ineffective?

Of course not. To survive, foxhunting needs foxes. In certain rural areas, for foxes to exist in such high numbers, foxes need foxhunting. Foxhunting as it has been been practiced in Britain in the modern era has been a self-interested, self perpetuating exercise.

The Countryside Alliance admit the existence of artificial earths (they could hardly deny it when confronted with filmed evidence on a live TV debate..) :-

"Artificial earths have been around for years and exist in many places. For hunting and indeed other forms of pest control to take place effectively, foxes need to be encouraged to live in areas suitable for the activity " - John Jackson.

Does your hunt seek to maintain fox numbers at a level UNSUITABLE for hunting? If they did, they would become very unpopular.
So, as we speak I wouldn't be able to specifically find evidence of your local hunt indulging in fox encouragement schemes, but the Countryside Alliance seem happy to acknowledge that such a thing is part and parcel of hunting.

If this kind of thing exists in areas OTHER than your chosen hunting country, do you condemn it?

And I really think that after I answered your question you might make more of an effort to answer my Australian question other than :-

"Sure. No idea. And care even less."

Especially as the thread is about hunting in Australia - and you have been so critical of antis having nothing to say about hunting. Surely you can have a bit of a go at formulating an answer?

"If you can find evidence of this happening in Minehead Harriers country I will stop hunting."

Are there coverts in your country, where foxes are allowed to breed in the close season?

See, I've even had a bit of a go at addressing an ADDITIONAL point from you despite your rudeness.

If you look back over this post you will see a number of questions. They are the bits with question marks after them.

Let's see how many you can give proper answers to.

 

[MisterMole]

Artificial earths have been used in literally every single hunt territory.

 

[wallace]

Just thought I'd bump this post to give you a chance to answer Faggy.
I see you have made a few posts since I wrote this, but you seem to have sidestepped again.

Are you capable of making a considered response to a question?

You are very quick to criticise a lack of discussion about hunting, but rather slow to respond when one actually takes place.

Another hypocrite.

 

[MisterMole]

He's frit

 

[wurzel]

"Would foxhunting find it suitable to find foxes at such a low level that hunting itself was redundant?"

Not likely to happen from what I experience.

"Does your hunt seek to maintain fox numbers at a level UNSUITABLE for hunting?"

No, they do nothing to maintain fox numbers.

"So, as we speak I wouldn't be able to specifically find evidence of your local hunt indulging in fox encouragement schemes, but the Countryside Alliance seem happy to acknowledge that such a thing is part and parcel of hunting."

Thought not. It is because you are guessing and full of prejudice. And i am not really interested in the countryside alliance.

"If this kind of thing exists in areas OTHER than your chosen hunting country, do you condemn it?"

Sure do.

"Are there coverts in your country, where foxes are allowed to breed in the close season?"

What a stupid question!

Woods, cleeves and linneys, hedges and fields.

Foxes live in them all and breed. I dont want to exterminate all foxes.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Personally I'm very keen to see a healthy, balanced population of all wild mammals and also a productive countryside, including livestock.

To me that's what it's all about.

And the issue is what is the best way to get there.

 

[wurzel]

Exactly !!!!

 

[MisterMole]

And your way "to see a healthy, balanced population of all wild mammals and also a productive countryside, including livestock" is to frighten deer "just for fun". You're living proof of what happens when townies play being farmers.

 

[wurzel]

I will butt in because I am living proof of what happens when generations and generations of farmers are STILL farmers.

You get a "healthy, balanced population of all wild mammals and also a productive countryside, including livestock"


If you can say it is any different on Exmoor give us your source !!

 

[wallace]

"Not likely to happen from what I experience."

Not actually an answer to the question. Another side-step. The question was, "would?"... i.e. you have to think outside of your experience.
Do YOU .....(and that's YOU, not someone else...) think foxhunting, taken as a whole, would find it suitable to find foxes at such a low level that hunting itself was redundant. Your experience in this instance is immaterial if you wish to answer the question properly. Would the exercise of hunting taken on a national level still see it as a worthwhile exercise if fox numbers were so low as to make the exercise redundant. It really isn't a difficult question!

"No, they do nothing to maintain fox numbers."

Are there coverts in your hunt country? Do you leave them alone in the close season? Do you allow them to breed at all? Are you aware that cubhunting could do a great deal towards dispersing young foxes outside of their immediate family area when they might otherwise be less successful if left alone?
If foxes are a pest to farming - as we have been lead to believe - then allowing them to perpetually return to the same numbers year after year in perpetuity is a chronically inept form of pest control. That is why I don't think foxhunting is pest control at all. You may well agree with me, and see foxhunting as a recreation or a hobby. But the organisations who set themselves up to be the spokespersons of hunting have endlessly tried to sell or defend hunting to the media as an essential and efficient form of pest control. You and I both know it is neither.

"Thought not. It is because you are guessing and full of prejudice. And i am not really interested in the countryside alliance."

How did you suppose I could find specific evidence of your local hunt supporting foxes? How can I be "guessing" when I'm asking you questions???
There is no prejudice because I am not pre-judging anything. I can only go on what I am told by the organisation that champions your hobby.
The organisation which represents hunting as a whole is happy to acknowledge the widespread use of artificial earths whether you claim to be interested or not. You seem to be very keen to appear disinterested when you don't actually have an answer. Because you are a hypocrite.

"Sure do."

WHOA! That was almost an answer! But you are pretty much condemning hunting as a whole, and your own hunt if it claims to be controlling a pest and yet allows the pest to stay at pest level ad infinitum.

"What a stupid question!"

Then give a stupid answer. At least you would be consistent.

"Woods, cleeves and linneys, hedges and fields.

Foxes live in them all and breed. I dont want to exterminate all foxes."

But fox coverts are specifically maintained and looked after by hunts. Without them there wouldn't be convenient places to find foxes to hunt. It would be LESS convenient without them, and the hunts might actually have to start to do some proper work and weed out these troublesome pests, rather than encourage them to breed just so that there is an acceptable level to justify hunting in the first place.

A self-perpetuating, self-interested pastime. It has nothing to do with helping agriculture. It is a selfish, spiteful activity that seeks to have an adequate number of animals to try and destroy in a woefully inefficient manner and then try and dress itself itself up as "pest control".

And you still haven't answered my specific Australian question, which was after all the basis for this thread.

Good effort, but deep down - you know your response a bunch of shite.
I feel a bit guilty forcing you into answering questions properly. I think you are more to be pitied than scolded, so I'm willing to give you a chance.

I think that's INCREDIBLY magnanimous of me, and I feel all the better for it.

Thank you, for giving me this opportunity.

If people think that makes me arrogant, then that is the icing on the cake.

I AM arrogant - I freely admit it.

I'm also proud of it, because I'm right!

And if you don't like me because of that, it just makes it so much better!

I just looked up "arrogant" and it says.......:-

"unpleasantly proud and behaving as if you are more important than, or know more than, other people:"

Well.

What can I say? Guilty as charged......but abundantly happy nonetheless!

 

[MisterMole]

I'm sure that the farmers on Exmoor - the real ones, not dilettante, townie farmers like you and Aegit - have played a central role in preserving this beautiful region, but only the most fanatical of pros would insist that this preservation is dependent on chasing a stag for seven or eight hours to the point of exhaustion and then killing it.

 

[wurzel]

Jesus !

I will try again !!!!!

"Are there coverts in your hunt country?"

No.

"Do you leave them alone in the close season?"

If you mean Foxes by the hunt, Yes.

"Do you allow them to breed at all?"

Of course. Like all other animals in the National Park.

"Are you aware that cubhunting could do a great deal towards dispersing young foxes outside of their immediate family area when they might otherwise be less successful if left alone?"

Less successful when left alone ??? There are several reasons for cub hunting. Dispersing foxes is one. Killing foxes is the main reason.

"If foxes are a pest to farming - as we have been lead to believe - then allowing them to perpetually return to the same numbers year after year in perpetuity is a chronically inept form of pest control. "

The most efficient way is to poison or gas every one of them.

"That is why I don't think foxhunting is pest control at all. You may well agree with me, and see foxhunting as a recreation or a hobby."

That is your opinion. A dead fox is pest control. It is also recreation and a hobby.

"How did you suppose I could find specific evidence of your local hunt supporting foxes?"

Because you antis seem to be all knowing. You "know" that the hunt does not control foxes on my farm. I "know" different.

"The organisation which represents hunting as a whole is happy to acknowledge the widespread use of artificial earths whether you claim to be interested or not."

Can you not understand that I do not care much what this organisation says.

"Because you are a hypocrite."

I think you are desperate. I am not a hypocrite at all. I am quite consistent.

"WHOA! That was almost an answer! But you are pretty much condemning hunting as a whole, and your own hunt if it claims to be controlling a pest and yet allows the pest to stay at pest level ad infinitum."

I think you are a little thick. I will try again. I condemn artificial earths. How is that almost an answer? It would be hard to make it more definite !!

Do you want my own hunt to kill all foxes? I am afraid I don't agree.

"But fox coverts are specifically maintained and looked after by hunts. Without them there wouldn't be convenient places to find foxes to hunt."

I am afraid you are (yet again) competely wrong. No fox coverts are maintained and looked after by our hunt.

"It has nothing to do with helping agriculture."

Are you a farmer? No? Thought not.

I am. But of course you know better than me !!

I think your lack of experience is less than persuasive !

I will carry on hunting.

"And you still haven't answered my specific Australian question, which was after all the basis for this thread.

Good effort, but deep down - you know your response a bunch of shite."

I really can't find it, and thanks for the praise, but you know your artificial earth fixation is, well....a crock of shite !



"I feel a bit guilty forcing you into answering questions properly. I think you are more to be pitied than scolded, so I'm willing to give you a chance.

I think that's INCREDIBLY magnanimous of me, and I feel all the better for it.

Thank you, for giving me this opportunity.

If people think that makes me arrogant, then that is the icing on the cake.

I AM arrogant - I freely admit it.

I'm also proud of it, because I'm right!

And if you don't like me because of that, it just makes it so much better!

I just looked up "arrogant" and it says.......:-

"unpleasantly proud and behaving as if you are more important than, or know more than, other people:"

Well.

What can I say? Guilty as charged......but abundantly happy nonetheless! "


I think you are rambling a bit !!!!

But you are right . You are arrogant.... but the best thing is you are completely impotent.

You stay happy and right.

I will deal with vermin on my farm.

I can't rely on you can I?

 

[wurzel]

"I'm sure that the farmers on Exmoor - the real ones,"

Give me an example.

What is a real farmer on Exmoor?

Would he be from Shropshire or Scotland?

I would stick to a subject you are familiar with.